Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, a friend of mine had an idea for using tankbustas, because the nob has an extra attack, you could give him the tankhammer, then stick him in an 'ard case wagon and never get him out, just let him wail on vehicles with his S10 weapon from a boarding plank, he get's four chances, if he can't hit, grab the tank, then get an auto-hit with a tankbusta bomb...or four S10 attacks that autohit...

But can the nob even take this tankhammer? It says "Up to two Tankbustas may replace their rokkit launchas with tankhammers" but does that include the nob or not?

starbomber109 wrote:So, a friend of mine had an idea for using tankbustas, because the nob has an extra attack, you could give him the tankhammer, then stick him in an 'ard case wagon and never get him out, just let him wail on vehicles with his S10 weapon, he get's four chances, if he can't hit, grab the tank, then get an auto-hit with a tankbusta bomb...or four S10 attacks that autohit...

But can the nob even take this tankhammer? It says "Up to two Tankbustas may replace their rokkit launchas with tankhammers" but does that include the nob or not?

What is your friend smoking?

Firstly, Nobz with Tankhammers are S8, not S10.
Secondly, Even when he charges, he is S9, not S10.
Thirdly, the Nob can't even take the Tankhammer anyway.

"A Tankhammer is a two-handed weapon that confers S10 in the Assault phase."

Ridcully wrote:"A Tankhammer is a two-handed weapon that confers S10 in the Assault phase."

but if he can't take it, he can't get S10...is what Gwar meant to say....right?

Technically the nob is still a tankbusta...or is he now a 'nob' and no longer a tankbusta. (He does have a different profile.)

starbomber109 wrote:

Ridcully wrote:"A Tankhammer is a two-handed weapon that confers S10 in the Assault phase."

but if he can't take it, he can't get S10...is what Gwar meant to say....right?

Possibly, but I doubt it. I think it was more likely an error of recalling the strength of Tankhammers.

Technically the nob is still a tankbusta...or is he now a 'nob' and no longer a tankbusta. (He does have a different profile.)

Not that i normally argue about orks, but it sounds similar to "can a doc have 'eavy armour". IIRC there were people arguing both ways on that, and i didn't have an opinion.

Ridcully wrote:Possibly, but I doubt it. I think it was more likely an error of recalling the strength of Tankhammers.

NO U!

And yes, I was getting Tankhammer and Thunder hammer mixed up

And no, the Nob can't take it so It's a Non issue :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

starbomber109 wrote:Technically the nob is still a tankbusta...or is he now a 'nob' and no longer a tankbusta. (He does have a different profile.)

No, a Nob iz a Nob, not a Tankbusta, the same way that a Painboy iz a Painboy, not a Nob.

Only Tankbustas can take the Hammer. The Nob is a Nob, not a Tankbusta.

Why would a Tankbusta Nob not be a Tankbusta?

To extend the argument-if all of the regular Tankbustas die, would the Nob still be bound by the Glory Hog rule?

Ordznik wrote:Why would a Tankbusta Nob not be a Tankbusta?

Because a Nob has a separate profile and so is not a Tankbusta.

So then, is a Tankbusta Nob not bound by the Glory Hog rule?

I think the argument is that you can upgrade a tankbusta after exchanging his weapon, just as you upgrade a nob to be a painboy after you've given him 'eavy armour. You have unit composition, and i'm sure there were people also arguing that painboys in a Nob unit are still Nobz, albeit upgraded.

As with tankbustas the doc has a rokkit launcher, assuming you haven't swapped it, assuming you can swap it, which probably also argues in favour of the doc keeping the gear of the upgraded Tankbusta in some way.

But i don't play orks.

Ordznik wrote:So then, is a Tankbusta Nob not bound by the Glory Hog rule?

The entire unit has those special rules, so no. He has the rule.

not technically, if his entire squad is killed, but he lives, he reverts back to being an independent character.

Technically, this makes him use the 'nobz' profile in the ork book.

Also technically, if he took the klaw then he has no slugga, because he traded his rokkit in for the klaw, but had no slugga to begin with.

Edit: maybe he CAN take the tankhammer if he decided not to trade his klaw...but yet he's a nob...I'm confusing myself now. Either way, orks need their power fists I've found, a S10 weapon is cool and all, but you get it for free and it allows armor saves if your locked in close combat with normal joes. The 3 fist attacks will make people rethink attacking you.

@Gwar: I WISH orks had thunderhammers

starbomber109 wrote:not technically, if his entire squad is killed, but he lives, he reverts back to being an independent character.

Technically, this makes him use the 'nobz' profile in the ork book.

No, the nob never becomes an independant character.
An upgraded tankbusta nob is also entirely distinct from the nobs in a regular nob squad.
He doesn't magically become a different type of unit and lose the glory hogs rule.
He never had a slugga and can never get one, he always uses the tankbusta wargear profile.

I give a Boy a tank hammer, then I upgrade him to a nob.
Not sure how that doesn't make sense

I swore I read somewhere if a unit died and died until 1 was left he became an IC, but I can't find that anywhere, so, I guess your right. He's a squad upgrade, and is the last model in the squad, so he's still bound by the Glory Hogs rule.

Glory Hog: Tankbustas live for the really big kill. They must always attempt to shoot at and/or assault an enemy vehicle if there is one in line of sight, regardless of range. If there is no visible target, the Tankbustas may select a target as normal. (Ork codex, pg. 42)

If the Nob isn't a Tankbusta, the rule doesn't apply to him.

Also, from the Tankbusta entry on page 99-One Tankbusta may be upgraded to a Nob. He may replace his rokit launcha with a power klaw.

He doesn't ever have a slugga, and can't get one. He's got the rokit launcha he got when he started out as a regular Tankbusta, before he got upgraded.

Actally, now that I start thinking about it, this argument that Nobs cease to be the unit type they started out as is really a can of worms. Wouldn't that mean that a Nob in a Kommando squad would lose infiltrate and move through cover?

Irdiumstern wrote:I give a Boy a tank hammer, then I upgrade him to a nob.
Not sure how that doesn't make sense

Exactly. You are correct.

Gwar! must be tired or drunk because he's wrong (and he's always right when he's sober...).

Irdiumstern got it right.

No, you cannot give him a tankhammer and then upgrade him to a nob, just like you can't give a nob a Power Klaw and then upgrade him to a painboy.

Of course you can. Why wouldn't you?

Webbe wrote:Of course you can. Why wouldn't you?

Because the Nob is not a Tankbusta so cannot have a Tankhammer.

Wrong again.
A Tankbusta may take a Tankhammer.
A Tankbusta may be upgraded to a Nob and when he does he of course retain all his wargear including the Tankhammer.

Webbe wrote:A Tankbusta may be upgraded to a Nob and when he does he of course retain all his wargear including the Tankhammer.

Where does it say he keeps his wargear?

Where does it say you may do it in that order?

It has to explicitly say you can keep the Wargear or do it in that order, not "It doesn't say I can't"

I think we can safely say they keep their wargear, you just don't know order it's in. An upgraded dok needs to replace the wargear he has to be dok related, and a Nob can replace the tankbusta wargear he has to be whatever options it lists. Nowhere does it explicitly state either 'keep the wargear of the upgraded model' or 'starts as a fresh model of that type with none of the wargear' but it is shown through options and instructions that they still have wargear which needs/can be replaced.

The order is the only important part, i think. Nothing explicitly states you do it in a certain order, and arguing one order over the other with a "it doesn't explicitly say you can, so you can't" argument is pretty silly. Choosing options before and after upgrades is actually more a lack of order anyway.

But assuming there wasn't any order, you would still be able to upgrade a Nob to a painboy even after you use the Nob's options to exchange weapons. A painboy can't replace weapons it doesn't have, and would therefore go without dok's tools (and syringe) for the sake of a power claw or something. The unit would get no effect of having a painboy. That would be pretty useless.

While that doesn't necessarily confirm that you should follow an order of upgrades before options, without it explicitly saying you should do it in a certain order, upgrades before options would remove the chance of useless upgrades being as possible.

I think that this argument of "Can a Nob take a Tankhammer" is completely ridiculous. In no situation could you ever do this with any other squad in any other army. In any army, when you upgrade a character like this, there is always a specific list of wargear that you have or can buy that associates with the new character. Never could you give a character wargear, then upgrade them... and expect to keep that wargear. Just look at the Ork Codex. It clearly shows a list on p99 of the rules that apply to the squad (which included the Glory Hogs) and then states that one tankbusta may be upgraded to Nob, and states that he has a rokkit launcha when you do so, as you can trade that in for anything on the list of wargear the Nob in that Tankbustas squad can have.

Gwar! is right.

Isn't this the same as the example of nobz with shoota boyz in the GW FAQs.

I.E. You can upgrade the nob to replace his choppa with a power klaw before you upgrade the rest of the boyz with shootas (which replace both their slugga AND their choppa)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum; having got my codex out

1) Up to two tankbustas may exchange their rokkit launcha for a tankhammer.

2) One tankbusta may be upgraded to a nob.

Neither one of those statements is exclusive to the other.

However:

3) The nob may replace his rokkit launcha with a power klaw.

Obviously this would no longer be allowed as he doesn't have a rokkit launcha.

Jadenim wrote:Isn't this the same as the example of nobz with shoota boyz in the GW FAQs.

No, considering they are different units...

This is just like a SM command squad. Once you upgrade a veteran to company champion you can no longer give him veteran specific wargear. Its pretty simple really...

I think where the confusion comes in is that "Nob" is an entry in the Ork codex, therefore, if something can be upgraded to a Nob, it stands to reason that it then follows the rules of that entry.

Nob isn't a class. It's a rank. Just like Space Marines have sargeants in their squads, Orks have Nobz in their squads, and have upgrades specific to their squad.

All Tankbustas, including the Nob, get Rokkit Launchas. Any Tankbusta can exchange his Rokkit Launcha for a Tankhammer, including the Nob. If he became a Nob from the Nobz entry, he should be fully upgradable, but he's not, because he's a Tankbusta Nob.

More notably, if he's somehow different from other Tankbustas because he's a Nob and have different wargear, then he shouldn't have a Rokkit Launcha to turn in for a Power Klaw.

My question is why would you want to in the first place? A normal TB Boy gets a TH free. You have to pay the extra points for a Nob. If you just plan on keeping the Boy with a TH in a transport and run around smacking vehicles, there is no need to spend the points and make him a Nob.