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As I am about to start a VC Army, I'm wondering why everybody seems to dislike Skeleton Warriors.
Is there a special reason for it ?


Thanks !

Nearly all of my VC army is made up of them, though I have to admit that I just bought them for the look and don't really play them (being mostly a 40k player).

I would be interested to see other peoples thoughts on skeletons though.

Because ghouls are 2 attacks, poison and T4, and with the ghoul moving ability (can't recall name ATM) you get the free move after deployment.

Unfortunately the ghoul spam VC are very, very common. And to be honest I can't recall anyone using skeles since the new rulebook came out here in Brisbane at club meets, store games or tourneys.

Ah, I see, thanks !
Do people still raise Zombies ? or just "heal" ghoul regiments ?

You can really go either way. Zombies are cheap so it's not expensive to start with a unit of 20 and raise more as needed or use the dice to raise more ghouls.

Zombies are really the worst thing ever, having used the new codex for a while now. I mean they're supposed to be, don't get me wrong. But they don't even work for the old tactics of raise unit + macabre into combat. A unit in the rear of the enemy, on its own, can do well. Cancelling ranks, getting its own +2, and maybe even outnumbering - but your average basic grunt hits them on a 3+ AND wounds them on a 3+. It's not unheard of for the enemy to end up killing more zombies than you earned combat resolution for by sending them in in the first place. They work great as a summoned unit for taking table quarters, blocking LOS from missle troops, taking out weak units like bolt throwers or archers, etc. but even with massive numbers, they aren't worth the investment as a core army.


As far as skeletons, I use them in my army, though that's mostly because I had lots already and didn't want to go for ghouls.

Ghouls have some very important stats up on skeleton warriors. They have WS3, meaning the vast majority of standard troops hit them on a 4+, instead of a 3+ for the WS2 skeletons. They're T4, meaning most basic troops also wound them on a 5+ instead of the 4+ for skeleton warriors. Granted they get no save after that, and skeletons would get hw/shield and light armour, and that's about where the difference is. Someone shoots bows at skeletons, they get a 5+ save, while ghouls [though harder to wound] fall down.

It matters, though, if the enemy is using high-powered weaponry. An organ gun, which would ignore skeleton armour, wounds ghouls on a 3+ to the 2+ on skeletons. Repeater boltthrowers wound ghouls on a 4+ instead of 3+ like the skeletons, which wouldn't get a save anymore due to armour piercing. They're more likely to pass toughness tests such as against the Slaanesh spell Enrapturing Spasms. They cost the same as skeletons, though unfortunately they can't take banners [and thus no magic banners - skeletons could take a war banner if they liked] or even a musician, so they have to win on their own accord.

They really shine against certain targets, though. Giants and other monsters in particular. 2 attacks each with poison, and the ability to re-roll misses via Vanhel's make for some deadly combinations. They work well against ogres and the like as well.

It's a matter of taste and which models you like - they have enough checks and balances on each other that I think either can make a viable army. I just recommend against combining them, though. Since it takes separate powers to bring ghouls and skeletons above starting strength, crafty enemies could prioritize certain characters over others and cripple half your army.

Ghouls are better then Skeletons are for the reasons other posters stated (A2, Poisoned, T4, WS3, Ghoulkin Vampiric Power).

I would not advise bringing Zombies as your compulsory Core choices, as they can very easily be summoned to any place on the field you like. Besides, they don't need a big unit for most of the roles they fill. March blocking, LoS blocking & capturing table quarters all are done equally well (or better due to choosing the placement of the unit) by raising the unit when you need them. Only for the role of tarpitting can a big unit of Zombies be any good, but you can just as easily raise a unit of Zombies and IoN them to tarpit strength.

Don't start the game with zombies on the table. It's a waste of points. They're much more effective to raise them where you want them.

The only time that skeletons trump ghouls is when you run Count Mannfred. Ghouls are better than skeletons but not by that much. Skeletons have their own advantages that keep them close to ghouls in terms of viability. Mannfred is good enough by himself to tip the scale towards skeletons.

Skeletons as already stated are relatively crappy troops, but they do have armor, and magic banners, of which they are many. A simple tactic to make them better is give them the banner which doubles their unit size, along with a vampire with a tomb blade, and some form of protection Every skeleton your vampire makes counts as 2. This is a great tactic to use against armies/units not immune to fear and terror. Ghouls are useful in their own way, but magic banners allows for more versatility.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote: with the ghoul moving ability (can't recall name ATM) you get the free move after deployment.

The ability is a vampire power and it is called Ghoulkin and allows a free move for every ghould unit and accoumpnying charcters and is one of the most usefull vampire power of all of them.

The reason Crypt Ghouls are better than skeletons are thta the get +1WS, +1T,+1I,+1A, poisened attacks, the point of the vampire power mentioned earlier and +2LD with the same point cost that is quite good. The reason that they might not be better is that they have got no armour and don't get any upgrades excpet a unit champion(crypt ghast) but this can be countered (the no armour problem) with some trusty necromancers with invocation of nehek.

My main point Skeletons suck, Crypt Ghouls rule.

If you're willing to invest the points in spears, shields, command and magic banner, you can get some good results out of skellies. Spears used to never be wanted, but in conjunction with the e-roll attack spells, they can get nearly the offense of ghouls, plus have command & banner.

Skeletons are fine if you want to use the old tactic of static res + outnumber = win. All you have to do is wait for your opponent to roll badly one round and you win, add in a vamp or use the helm and it's really easy. Ghouls are only if you need to actually kill stuff. The army in general doesn't need any sort of shooting protection as you just fix whatever got hurt. If you're using Manfred then you would prefer skeletons over ghouls as he makes more very easily. The ghoulkin power is useful against shooty/magic armies but against others it just cuts the 'charge' turn by one.

Skeletons can have a full command and a magic banner. advantage Skellies

I am sorry guys but how can anyone have an undead army without Skeletons?

I realise their stat line isn't quite up to the ghouls but, for me at least, they are the iconic minion of the VC and they're not that bad...

Plus, even more importantly, the new skeleton models are awesome.

Sure, if I was going for a GT spec'd opti build I may take just ghouls with yawnkin and summon yawns but GTs are so rare that I prefer taing a mixture.

Besides, VC are so horrid that you can mix n match and still have a nice list.

The problem with mixing and matching skeletons and ghouls is that you have to take seperate powers to be able to increase the size of the units.

Personally I like the ghouls for the above mentioned reasons, but where skeletons, zombies and ghouls get real nasty is when they are combined with the Helm of Commandment. WS7 ghouls are nothing to laugh about - the extra point of toughness really helps them out vice not having armor. As far as putting magic banners on skeleton units, besides the double unit size, I really can't see that many magic banners being that useful for them.

Zombies - I usually see them starting out on the board in armies which are trying to keep their core unit costs low so they can splurge on hero, special or rare choices. Once again - by themselves they aren't that good, but either raising them up in the rear of someone and vanheling them into combat or using the Helm of Commandment and making them WS7 can make them really nasty. Basic troops hitting on 5s (usually 6 attacks with a unit having a champ), wounding on 3s = about 1 wound a turn. Turns zombies into the ultimate tarpit unit.

Here is how I plan to use my army of VC:

Zombie: Tarpits that can be spawned as sheilds, very cheap, and IRC dont have to be purchased to be summoned on the board.

Ghouls/ Skelies: this debate will last forever, but I am more on the side of Skelies, the models are better, and have more options to cusomize. But ghouls are great to sneak around the board with and hit a flank.

Skelies have armor and banners over Ghouls.

Ghouls are better at active CR than skellies.

Both are still pretty good, I think. It mainly falls down to preference.