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2009/11/14 16:53:35
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
in modern warfare 2 there is a scene at an airport in which you waste a large group of civilians
alot of people think that the game promotes terrorism and shuld be banned for the reason,
what do dakkaites think on this subject?
1500pt-first completed 40k army
2000pts- main army, my own army with its own colour scheme and fluff, heavily converted
Soup and a roll wrote:I think it's a computer game.
I also think it's a blatant attention ploy and in bad taste. The game fully deserves its 18 (UK) certificate.
Except it's not. The scene, in question is a bit of the developing plot.
Spoilers ahead:
Spoiler:
The scene in question has you playing as Private Joseph Allen, who is sent undercover into the Shadow of Zakhaev organization to get close and report back to the CIA on Makarov's movements. Makarov knows Allen is an American, despite the huge amount of work that went in to give Allen a cover story, background, etc. This is due to the General who recruited Allen selling him out to Makarov. Makarov then kills Allen after the massacre, which leaves a huge bodycount firmly pinned to a deep cover CIA operative. With the fact that the Shadow of Zakhaev group that did the entire massacre ONLY spoke English, ONLY used American weapons, and the only member who was found dead was an American--the Russians believed it to be an American operation, a precursor to war and payback for the Russians stealing an ACU module(which you recover the mission prior). The Russians then use the massacres as a pretext for an all out invasion of the US, overrunning Washington, and putting the US forces on the back foot from the get go. This leads to one of the single greatest missions ever, called "Wolverines!", which has you fighting Russian paratroopers in a DC suburb.
2009/11/15 00:58:23
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
That said, it was pretty awful and it's good to see that the developers included a fairly obvious warning.
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
2009/11/15 02:00:04
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/11/16 13:33:28
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
I'm with beerfart.
Just keep away and everything is ok for those Carebears...
Seriously though, this is nothing new, look at Tom and Jerry and other cartoons of the like.
There is no blood, but they are still pretty violent, I haven't heard any poo pooing them as much as video games...
____________
In addition, kids are being arrested over food fights...I think video games are the least of their problems...
This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
2009/11/16 15:14:02
Subject: Re:[spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
Having played this wonderful, wonderful game I have realised it is easy to bitch, whine and complain about something especially when it is taken out of context. The scene in the Airport (referred to in-game as "No Russian") is a classic example of this. It is one of the most shocking, thought provoking and downright integral parts of the whole game.
For example, the level begins with Makarov, you and his cronies (of which you are disguised as) in a lift preparing your weapons. Makarov turns to the group and states simply "remember, no russian". At first I though Makarov meant hurt no Russians but the true meaning comes like the proverbial thunderbolt.
You and the group exit the elevator, weapons readied and are faced with a horde of civilians waiting to board their planes. I honestly thought Makarov was about to make some kind of ultimatum or demand to the crowd, but then he opens fire upon them in cold-blood. The group follows step, except me. Honestly, I was fully shocked into silence, my gun pointing lamely in front of me. "What the hell are they doing?" I think, the weight of what Makarov and his cronies are doing is fully impressed upon me. We've already been told Makarov is a mad-dog killer with no loyalties but it makes his actions no less shocking.
You progress through the airport, the group gunning down anything and everything that moves. Again, I fire no shots. I'm meant to be the good guy, and there's a price I'm just not willing to pay. I see one man, crawling across the floor, his legs a bloody mess and leaving a trail across the floor. Makarov callously steps over him, ignoring his plight. I'm ashamed to admit, I shot the man through the head to spare him his pain.
Everything changes when the armed forces show up. Instantly I'm back in the familiar relationship: they have guns and want to kill me, I have guns and I won't let them. It makes you think, and when the eventual twist turns its head, I was seriously left with a feeling that my character had lost part of himself (like General Shepard pointed out). Although the Police and Armed Guards were shooting at me, they were the good guys, not me. Although I was fighting for the right cause (taking down Makarov) the actual process was too horrendous.
It also makes you think as well, at how I couldn't concieve of shooting the unarmed innocents, but I easily gunned down their protectors. Much like COD4 did, the story questions were the lines are blurred, and the difference between war and murder (and if they are indeed different)
And finally, "No Russian" is the quintessential level of the game, whom without the story could not take flight and launch the player in to some of the best FPS I've played in a longtime (sorry KZ2, I love you, but you have been usurped). The level is there to further the story and to show you how bad the bad guys really are. Sensationalist tabloids be damned!
And again, it lets you skip the level at any time, and even asks at the start. However, I feel people will miss out on the whole picture. I am one of those fagtastic "Games as an Artform" individuals (Shadow of The Colossus, thou art beauty) and "No Russian" completes the rich tapestry of the fantastic MW2 experience
I think the media is sensationalizing this whole thing. Yes, is it questionable, but with all the other crap out there, why focus on just this one? Because it is current and "news worthy".
[sarcasm]Right now this is the only game out there with a "questionable/controversal" topic or theme.[/sarcasm]
GTA games allow the player to be a thug, a hitman, a gangster, etc. But, there is no "new" GTA game out there. Nevermind the DLC that has full frontal, male nudity. Most mainstream media barely has any idea of what "DLC" means.
Bugs the crap out of me that people want to censor everything that we can watch, read and play. But forget the fact we can watch the nightly news and see the same things. But, that is our 1st Amendment right. Well, at least here in the US. Oh, don't forget to be sensitive of other's feelings.
GAH! Sorry. I will stop ranting right now.
My wife is getting this game for me for Christmas (opps, sorry if that word hurt your feelings) and I can't wait to play it.
HEY WORLD!!! GROW A PAIR!!
I'll stop talking now.
I think I'm going to start a charity for the terminally stupid. You can be our spokes person. -- H.B.M.C.
"I remember my dream now, why I dug the holes."
- Jim, The Walking Dead
2009/11/17 03:25:49
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
Seanron has it right. It's a pretty horrible thing to think of and I felt awful as I progressed through the level, but it's utterly integral to the game. It's the biggest plot hook, and a damn good one, despite the nasty content.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/17 03:26:03
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
2009/11/17 03:42:19
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
you all speak the truth people take everything so seriously these days. For Example Opps i only put 49 stars on the US cake. TERRIORISM!!!!
See this a good reason why this world has lost site of its dream.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2009/11/17 06:59:06
Subject: Re:[spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
Sucked, didn't it? I'd rather have had Captain Price die so that Ghost could help Soap at the end of the game. Then we can have the Scot-Liverpudlian duo in MW3.
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
2009/11/17 09:59:33
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
I was more shocked by the fething yankee general's treason and the burning of a dying man than the massacre of an airport full of people for some reason.
Other than that, bad story, good game.
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2009/11/18 00:11:25
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
How awesome is the bit on the oil rig mission where you breach the doors in slow-mo?
Got me an achievement out of that.
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
2009/11/18 00:12:41
Subject: Re:[spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
BrookM wrote:I was more shocked by the fething yankee general's treason and the burning of a dying man than the massacre of an airport full of people for some reason.
Other than that, bad story, good game.
What was bad about the story?
It was better than most of the filth that comes out of Hollywood It just reinforces the statement that Peter Jackson made a few years ago, alongside Speilberg--Video games are the new method of storytelling. It's in the infancy, but it's coming to a head.
2009/11/18 01:28:58
Subject: Re:[spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
The 'surprise invasion' by Russia really threw me. As did the General's secret base, and the rogue nuclear launch. It felt like it tried too hard to top the previous story in terms of ridiculous adrenaline rushes. Kind of like a Brosnan era Bond flick.
Lots of cool moments that make for a fun game, but not really the best story telling.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2009/11/18 01:57:31
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
2009/11/18 02:40:36
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/18 02:45:35
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
2009/11/18 02:49:03
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
2009/11/18 06:32:24
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
I find that MW2's Campaign is simply a "Oh look, you don't get to do this in any other game!" I don't give two feths about the story, IMHO. I'm only interested in the "fun" parts of the Campaign.
Oh, and multiplayer.
The Airport level is at least warned at, and I'll leave it at that.
Some people play to win, some people play for fun. Me? I play to kill toy soldiers.
DR:90S++GMB++IPwh40k206#+D++A++/hWD350R+++T(S)DM+
I agree with Dogma and I agree with AV Club's review.
Yet in spite of its good looks, Modern Warfare 2 has the slightest whiff of insecurity. It feels like the developers, under pressure to top the original Modern Warfare, engaged in a bit of hand-wringing this time around. Note how those over-the-top setpieces typically bookend each level. Example: An early snowbound level opens on the side of a mountain and features a tense ice-climbing sequence; the same level ends with a noisy snowmobile chase. But what happens between those two setpieces—the quiet, crafty infiltration of an enemy camp during a blizzard—is arguably more interesting. Unfortunately, that quieter, more dramatic experience is drowned out by the noise.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2009/11/18 11:03:51
Subject: Re:[spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
Gotta agree with that. The game screams a lot, which is a pity. Mind you, the EMP segment was well done and the desperate race to the roof to pop flares was well done. I found the Ramirez levels well done, most of the Roach levels less so and the end game rather, ugh.
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2009/11/18 11:29:32
Subject: [spoiler alert] modern warfare 2 controversy
I personally liked the endgame, and I think the final cutscene was really well-done. Never has X been mashed so hard.
I still don't understand how Shepherd managed to beat the gak out of Captain Price though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/11/18 11:30:05
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
1500pt-first completed 40k army
2000pts- main army, my own army with its own colour scheme and fluff, heavily converted
It just reinforces the statement that Peter Jackson made a few years ago, alongside Speilberg--Video games are the new method of storytelling. It's in the infancy, but it's coming to a head.
