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An open question to you guys.

In the UK at least, I've always had the impression that there is something of a Political Divide in US Politics, which rather obviously is between Democrat and Republican sensibilities.

All I would like to know is how pronounced this divide actually is, in your own opinion and experience

Do people tend to veer over to one side, or are most voters central, voting for whomever they feel has the right idea for the next four years?

It seems like the divide is a little exaggerated in the media, especially around election times. I haven't seen that much really entrenched "Red versus Blueing" in my time.

Agreed with Orkeosaurus. The media blows the "red vs blue" thing way out of proportion. We have hardcore Dems and Republicans in my large extended family, and we are quite civil to each other about politics and our opinions, even if we dont agree with each other.

The only thing we get into heated arguments about is when we play Settlers of Catan, or, heaven forbid, Risk. Then you will see some anger and possibly fist fights.

Cheers

Do you know many 'floating' voters, or do people tend to have a preference which is changed occasionally?

Main reason I ask is that the UK has less of a Political Divide, with a great many voters deciding who to vote for on an election to election basis, and I don't entirely buy the 'wide divide' about the US.

Its not that its a wide divide, its just that its given an undue amount of attention. Its a tiny thing that a lot of agencies blow out of proportion.

Look at the last election.There were a lot republicans that voted for Obama and a lot of democrats that voted for McCain. Yes, a lot of people voted with their own particular party, but more I think voted on their conscience and personal opinion.

I'd vote Dem if a Dem ran that wasn't trying to take away the rights I feel I should have or mess with them. So far their haven't been any so I vote Republican every election, have since I was 18.

An aside question for yourself Fateweaver, do you think there would ever be a time when you felt the Republicans were way off tack, and that voting Democrat, even though they wanted to change something you hold dear, would be the lesser of two evils?

Same for everyone actually.

As ever, not going anywhere in particular with this, just exploring.

The Divide can be seen in some states more than other. America has a don't ask don't tell belief about politics and sex. The divide is widened why The fact most Americans hink that comprimise is the first step on the high way to hell. It's no different than the East cosst West coast, of the 90's or the northen yankees vs southen rebels. The divide get very deep depending on where you live.

Mad Doc Grotsnik: I voted for Charlie Crist of Florida because of his Moderate views and stance on education. Sadly enough his moderate views have in the sites of Rush and Palin. Obama's change in the way the G.I bill works is the greatest thing ever. (my wife and kids share my G.I bill for shooling now) Was supported By Crist. A few days after that, attacks on his sexuality begain.

Jumbled rant: It depends on a lot of factors imo. Have to consider that some of us may not be around politically minded folk or in a context where such discussions arise. I do agree that a good chunk of people have the common decency to keep the usually taboo topic of politics to themselves but like always the loud ones are the ones that get attention.

Living in the state that spawned Bush Jr. that also had him as a governor; its plenty pro Bush/red/GOP. If they're not outspoken about it you'll find it on their bumper stickers, etc. The current governor is crazy enough to say things like Texas should secede out of the union (translation: leave the USA) because of Obama's administration.

Everyday life when its not time for reelections or there hasn't been some kind of event like a terrorist attack; then everyday people keep politics to themselves.

For politicians and political activists its a largely polarized world fueled by unending media spins, passion, ignorance, hate, and $$$. Those whose livelihoods rely a lot on the political world do what they can to make sure their interests are sought after. You see this when Republicans or Democrats vote on a bill solely to support or deny eachother.

I'd say 70% of the people I know [who vote regularly] have a loyal straight party vote.

In my experience independents often can't be bothered to vote on a regular basis. When they do vote they will vote very pragmatically, most often with their wallet or for changing the system (as they only bother to vote when things are bad).


I would agree that differences are exaggerated between the ideologies. I can't think of anyone ever losing a friend or getting riled up because they found out someone was in the 'wrong' party.

So lots of loyal party people, minority who vote regularly but from the center, and not a few who can't be bothered normally who will vote pragmatically if sufficiently dissatisfied with the system.

Texas here, YMMV.

If Repubs were ever way out of wack I'd probably vote independent or not vote at all.

I believe in voting but if ever comes a time I don't want any candidate I won't vote (it also means I won't bitch about who is running the country).

That's a peeve of mine. If you don't vote you have no right to bitch IMO.

I don't really consider myself affiliated with any party, but I find I vote Republican more often than not because their views are closest to mine.
My parents were staunch Democrats, so we'd get into some lively discussions about party views and whatnot, but when it came down to it, my parents were more Republican than most Republicans.

Fateweaver wrote:I'd vote Dem if a Dem ran that wasn't trying to take away the rights I feel I should have or mess with them. So far their haven't been any so I vote Republican every election, have since I was 18.

Then why didn't you vote for Obama? He didn't run on an anti-gun platform, or really anything associated with rights at all.

I suspect what you really mean is that you wouldn't vote for a Democrat under any conditions.


As for me: Its no secret that I lean towards the liberal end, though I'm more of a moderate than my argumentation style tends to indicate. In general I will defend the state from criticism I feel to be illegitimate, regardless of the political leaning of the current administration. At the moment that means I spend a lot of time defending liberal policies, but I spent almost as much time defending the Iraq War when Bush was in office.

In terms of voting, I will vote for whoever I feel to be the better candidate. Generally I base this on a judgment with respect to his position on issues, as well as the likely makeup of his cabinet.

I do think there is a degree of branding in American politics. Many people simply trust one party more than the other, and are thus reticent to vote for the unfavored son. Obviously there are certain degree to this. On one end you have people like Fateweaver who will never vote Democrat, and on the other you have people who simply feel uneasy about doing so.

dogma wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I'd vote Dem if a Dem ran that wasn't trying to take away the rights I feel I should have or mess with them. So far their haven't been any so I vote Republican every election, have since I was 18.

Then why didn't you vote for Obama? He didn't run on an anti-gun platform, or really anything associated with rights at all.

I suspect what you really mean is that you wouldn't vote for a Democrat under any conditions.


As for me: Its no secret that I lean towards the liberal end, though I'm more of a moderate than my argumentation style tends to indicate. In general I will defend the state from criticism I feel to be illegitimate, regardless of the political leaning of the current administration. At the moment that means I spend a lot of time defending liberal policies, but I spent almost as much time defending the Iraq War when Bush was in office.

In terms of voting, I will vote for whoever I feel to be the better candidate. Generally I base this on a judgment with respect to his position on issues, as well as the likely makeup of his cabinet.

I do think there is a degree of branding in American politics. Many people simply trust one party more than the other, and are thus reticent to vote for the unfavored son. Obviously there are certain degree to this. On one end you have people like Fateweaver who will never vote Democrat, and on the other you have people who simply feel uneasy about doing so.

He has 3 years left. Give it time dogma. No liberal that's ever been president hasn't tried to tighten gun laws. He has 3 years left (unless circumstances end it early) so I have a feeling it'll happen. I also oppose the welfare system, the very LOOSE immigration laws and anything else the dems think helps this country so much so no matter what you think dogma I don't vote against Democrats (or any other party candidate who wants to try to deny me my 2nd amendment rights) due to possibly losing my guns (though that is a main issue with my voting choices). Also being an NRA member does skew my view of Dems somewhat but NRA aren't necessarily anti-liberal, just anti-stupid and anti-take-away-our-rights.

I'm not loyal to either party. I generally vote for Democrats as I feel they usually do less damage.

I'm convinced there's a political divide based on party politics rather than results. I keep hearing <party> this or that hissed with venom that borders on genuine animosity rather than competition. Being a Cryptoanarchofaschist (Yeah there's a bit of cognitive dissonance here. Hush.) I keep reading what both parties are doing and it :
A) Sounds suspiciously the same.
B) Sounds reactionary rather than carefully considered.

It seems to me that most voters are more of lazy centrists - moderate except when the other guy is moderate because that would be bad.

The divide is incredibly strong when the issues are incredibly divisive. It is weak and meaningless when they aren't. Local politics don't always fall down one of two ways, and when the spotlight isn't on representatives falling in line with their party they can cross the boundry. That said its getting worse every day thanks to the irresponsibility of the news media; polarizing everything it can for a quick buck.

I don't vote against Democrats (or any other party candidate who wants to try to deny me my 2nd amendment rights

..just out of interest how highly does this right rank compared to other policies/theories a political party or individual might express in terms of how it would affect your voting ?

For example, and I appreciate this is a somewhat laboured example, but if the Republicans had proposed "policy X" that you dislike whilst the Democrats had said they will "ensure gun ownership rights through process y" , would that be more or less of a "swing" issue for you -- and other posters-- than ... other policies : eg ; economic policy, foreign relations, welfare reform, etc etc.

basically how high up your agenda/list of concerns ( -- used here in the general sense, not aimed at any individual I hasten to add) are gun/firearm issues compared to other factors ?

I think there is a strong divide between the right and left. We all knew that the right would lose the election last year so that masked the divide. The young people were the swing vote between Hillary and Obama.

G

Fateweaver wrote:
He has 3 years left. Give it time dogma. No liberal that's ever been president hasn't tried to tighten gun laws.

You mean besides Truman, Carter, and Kennedy?

Fateweaver wrote:
I also oppose the welfare system, the very LOOSE immigration laws and anything else the dems think helps this country so much so no matter what you think dogma I don't vote against Democrats (or any other party candidate who wants to try to deny me my 2nd amendment rights) due to possibly losing my guns (though that is a main issue with my voting choices).

I really don't understand how you can construe your position as being unaffiliated when all of the issues you value, and the positions you have with respect to them, fall very clearly on one side of the partisan divide. That's really all political parties are you know, collections of issues and positions; embodied by people. Plus, there's that whole anti-Obama thing you have going on. If that isn't simple disgust with respect to the Democratic Party manifestly directed against one person, then it must be something else a lot less justifiable.

Also, calling our immigration laws loose is very much like doing the same with respect to firearm regulation.

Fateweaver wrote:
Also being an NRA member does skew my view of Dems somewhat but NRA aren't necessarily anti-liberal, just anti-stupid and anti-take-away-our-rights.

I don't think the NRA is anti-stupid, they've done some very stupid things in their time, mostly dealing with hyperbole (cold dead fingers?).

Also being an NRA member does skew my view of Dems somewhat but NRA aren't necessarily anti-liberal, just anti-stupid and anti-take-away-our-rights.

Anti-take-away-our-rights. I'll remember that the next time we're talking about illegal extradition, offshore prisons, and the economy. It'll provide some good ammo.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:An open question to you guys.

In the UK at least, I've always had the impression that there is something of a Political Divide in US Politics, which rather obviously is between Democrat and Republican sensibilities.

All I would like to know is how pronounced this divide actually is, in your own opinion and experience

Do people tend to veer over to one side, or are most voters central, voting for whomever they feel has the right idea for the next four years?

Democrats me off, almost as much as Republicans. Neither of them will stay off my lawn.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

dogma wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I'd vote Dem if a Dem ran that wasn't trying to take away the rights I feel I should have or mess with them. So far their haven't been any so I vote Republican every election, have since I was 18.

Then why didn't you vote for Obama? He didn't run on an anti-gun platform, or really anything associated with rights at all.

Bull it. His incredibly small record did. Plus he put in "no controlling legal authority" Holder who immediately started advocating for such.

What Frazz said. So far he hasn't done anything himself as President to feth with our 2nd amendment rights but he voted to pass and did pass some measures pre-Overlord.

He did it before, he will try again.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/67833-holder-dials-back-commitment-to-assault-weapons-ban

Yeah, just read that.

Any "uniforms" come for my MG-42 or AR I'll go down in a blaze of glory (cue Bon Jovi).

You SOB! I had to work once in Target in the music section. They played that song over and over and over and over and over and over. I think its when I first envisioned walking resolutely forward with a Thommy Gun chugging away... Now you have that song in my head again. I guess its time to lock n load.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091116/pl_afp/japanusdiplomacyasiaobama

Hmm, really? Bowing to another foreign leader. Yikes. Since when does our Overlord bow to another countries Overlord.

Maybe Obama was just making sure his shoes were polished correctly ( I hope anyway).

"I swear. It says Mother. Here (bows) look and you can see the tattoo."

It was a crappy bow.

The Japanese have invented a new verb -- 'obamu' --meaning to persevere with optimism, ignoring all obstacles.

One has to remember just how fething big and how fething diverse the US is before you try to jam us into 2 parties...

Michigan Repubs are much much different from Texas Repubs...

Virginia Dems are much much different than California Dems.


Trying to shoehorn that many views into 2 categories is crazy. Yet we do it anyways.