Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Having been out of the hobby for a long time, I've been having trouble figuring this out. Looking through the 5th edition rules regarding Cover Saves, I can't find anywhere where it mentions specifically how to use them. I primarily play Marines, and I seem to remember issues with Marines getting any kind of Cover Save (as their Power Armour was superior to the Cover Save?). Is this still the case in 5th edition, or can any model claim cover saves now?

Casual battles I've had have always said that models in Cover get a Cover Save first, followed by any Armour Save/Invulnerable Save needed if the Cover Save fails. However, I really don't think this is playing it right.

Could anyone either tell me if Marines are entitled to any Cover saves, or point me to the page in the rulebook? I'd like to get this ironed out for my next battle, as it's confused me for a while.

Thanks all.

BRB p21 "COVER SAVES"

You get one save. If a marine was hit with an AP2 weapon (ie goes right through his 3+ armour), but was in 5+ cover, he could take a cover save. You either take a cover, armour, or invulnerable save. You can't take a cover and an armour save.

Neith wrote:Casual battles I've had have always said that models in Cover get a Cover Save first, followed by any Armour Save/Invulnerable Save needed if the Cover Save fails. However, I really don't think this is playing it right.

No, this is wrong. You only take 1 save, whichever save is the best at the time.

Check pages 21 - 24 for a detailed explanation.

Ridcully wrote:BRB p21 "COVER SAVES"

You get one save. If a marine was hit with an AP2 weapon (ie goes right through his 3+ armour), but was in 5+ cover, he could take a cover save.

I'd actually looked through that, but I wasn't sure if the Cover save was taken additionally to an Armour Save (to represent the shot hitting the cover first, then hitting the unit if it pierced the cover).

So if a Tactical Squad was in cover and got shot by Bolters, you'd just take the Armour Save and ignore the Cover altogether (as I don't think actual cover is ever better than 3+), but if hit by a Krak Missile you'd use the Cover Save?

Neith wrote:So if a Tactical Squad was in cover and got shot by Bolters, you'd just take the Armour Save and ignore the Cover altogether (as I don't think actual cover is ever better than 3+), but if hit by a Krak Missile you'd use the Cover Save?

Pretty much. Models with more than 1 save available is covered on page 24.

Neith wrote:

I'd actually looked through that, but I wasn't sure if the Cover save was taken additionally to an Armour Save (to represent the shot hitting the cover first, then hitting the unit if it pierced the cover).

So if a Tactical Squad was in cover and got shot by Bolters, you'd just take the Armour Save and ignore the Cover altogether (as I don't think actual cover is ever better than 3+), but if hit by a Krak Missile you'd use the Cover Save?

Correct. You only get one save, ever. You actually are never required to take the best, but it would make no sense to use a worse one so no-one ever does.

Gwar! wrote:

Neith wrote:So if a Tactical Squad was in cover and got shot by Bolters, you'd just take the Armour Save and ignore the Cover altogether (as I don't think actual cover is ever better than 3+), but if hit by a Krak Missile you'd use the Cover Save?

Pretty much. Models with more than 1 save available is covered on page 24.

Thanks everyone; tough trying to take everything in again after being away from the hobby for a few years

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Neith wrote:

I'd actually looked through that, but I wasn't sure if the Cover save was taken additionally to an Armour Save (to represent the shot hitting the cover first, then hitting the unit if it pierced the cover).

So if a Tactical Squad was in cover and got shot by Bolters, you'd just take the Armour Save and ignore the Cover altogether (as I don't think actual cover is ever better than 3+), but if hit by a Krak Missile you'd use the Cover Save?

Correct. You only get one save, ever. You actually are never required to take the best, but it would make no sense to use a worse one so no-one ever does.

Actually, you *are* required to use the best save available. My apologies for not having the page number handy, but it is in there.

Page 24. "Models with more than one save"

yeah,
Quick question to clarify this in my head.

If a Terminator is in cover and is wounded by two bolter shots a meltagun shot and ap1 template weapon?

Can I use multiple save types
4+ cover save on the melta gun wound?
2+ armour save for two bolter wounds?
and 5+ invulnerable save against the template.

Panic...

Of course you can. You use the best save available to you, which in this case is going to vary by the wound.

Panic wrote:yeah,
Quick question to clarify this in my head.

If a Terminator is in cover and is wounded by two bolter shots a meltagun shot and ap1 template weapon?

Can I use multiple save types
4+ cover save on the melta gun wound?
2+ armour save for two bolter wounds?
and 5+ invulnerable save against the template.

Panic...

Yes, but you can only ever attempt 1 save against each wound.

Realisticlally though isnt this a bit wierd??

Think of this: a model who is wearing armour and has a pshycic forcefield and is in a building. Wouldnt the bullet have to go through the window (cover save) then through the forcefield (inv) and then the armour (normal save).

I know this rule is to stop models becoming unkillable but think about it...

I prefer the WHFB system where you tke all the saves. To stop this being to hard to kill armour is decreased by high strength.

Neith wrote:

Ridcully wrote:BRB p21 "COVER SAVES"

You get one save. If a marine was hit with an AP2 weapon (ie goes right through his 3+ armour), but was in 5+ cover, he could take a cover save.

I'd actually looked through that, but I wasn't sure if the Cover save was taken additionally to an Armour Save (to represent the shot hitting the cover first, then hitting the unit if it pierced the cover).

So if a Tactical Squad was in cover and got shot by Bolters, you'd just take the Armour Save and ignore the Cover altogether (as I don't think actual cover is ever better than 3+), but if hit by a Krak Missile you'd use the Cover Save?

It can be better, for example:
you're in 3+ (building, or regular with some special rule that gives +1 to cover save) cover and you go to ground, giving you +1 to your cover save. now you have a 2+ cover save.

Eldar Own wrote:Think of this: a model who is wearing armour and has a pshycic forcefield and is in a building. Wouldnt the bullet have to go through the window (cover save) then through the forcefield (inv) and then the armour (normal save).

The explanation behind it is that the lesser saves ultimately make no appreciable difference to the model's ability to withstand the shot.

Basically, if you're wearing armour that can withstand having a small moon dropped on you, standing behind a bush doesn't appreciably alter the chances of your armour blocking a shot. So instead of taking multiple saves, you just take the best.


It falls down if you examine it too deeply, but for the sake of keeping characters from being too overpowered, and for streamlining purposes, it works fine.

And don't forget that "cover" saves are not always actual cover. Shooting "through" a unit is the best example. The shot isn't actually blocked, rather, the firer is distracted, can't get a clean shot, has allies in the way or just plain misses.

Last week i shot through a unit and two ruins (the shot went through a total of 3 windows). I was pretty happy with that being a 4+ cover save.