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Hey folks!

Couple of questions:

1. If you're in a game, and you skip a mandatory action (like rolling morale tests at the end of your opponent's turn), then move to your turn, start rolling for reserves, and your opponent reminds you that you forgot morale tests, do you
a.) Pause your turn, roll the previous turn's morale tests.
b.) Say, "lol too late you missed it sucka!"
c.) Rewind the game 5 minutes to the point where the mandatory action should have taken place?

Also, what rules justification do you base your answer on? Another scenario is if two units are locked in assault, and you forget about them and move into the next turn; do you rewind and settle it, ignore it, or settle the assault in the movement phase of the next turn you're already in?


2. An arching bridge stretches across a river, the span rising up in the middle to heights twice as tall as any model in your army. How do you treat mounting the bridge? Can a model under the bridge (or a unit under the bridge) achieve superhuman (or superxenos) jumping skills and jump onto the top of the bridge, or do they need to go around to the ramp section and climb on? Where do you decide where they can climb onto the bridge at? I was taught that where the arch of a bridge/ramp/etc was low enough to touch a model's head is the highest point the model could climb up, but I don't think there's rules for that.

1.) Most friendly games I play use option A. Though in a few tournaments they use option C.

2.)I don't think there's an official ruling for this but the way I've seen similar things played as follows:

taller than model (but within reasonable agreement of both players) = Dangerous

As tall as / up to models knees = Difficult

Lower = no penalty

1) No rules to cover it. You have to work it out yourselves!

2) No rules to cover it. You have to work it out yourselves!

Yay for 40k rules ethos!

These situations arose during 'Ard Boyz; was definitely not friendly play. =p

Surely most morale tests at the end of your opponents turn would have been those triggered from losing combat? How did you manage to forget those? I'm assuming you weren't damaged above 25% in some other manner.

Then again, if it happened in another manner (such as explosions), it would be understandable that you forgot to take a morale test that far more frequently would occur in a different phase.

For things such as forgetting morale tests at the end of a phase, my club generally gets you to make the test if not too much stuff has happened since. If the total of their actions has been merely to kill a few models, the models will be returned to the table if the inadvertently cheating unit fails its test. If you'd gone right through another few phases of movement, shooting and assault then not taking the test would save a few headaches. Forgotten reserves are generally allowed to be rolled for if you're still in the same movement phase. Otherwise no.

When we play non-competitive games here, we are kind of lax about it, opting to rewind and re-do missed rolls.

In our local tournaments (which I don't play in, I TO ) I have a very strict policy. You forget to roll for reserves, that unit is destroyed. You forget to roll a morale check? Destroyed.

Needless to say, very few reserve rolls or Morale checks are forgotten round these here parts

Sounds like incentive to mess with your opponent's head.

The forgotten morale check was this:

My opponent spent his shooting phase laying into my army, causing 25% casualties in several units. I wasn't really paying attention to what or where (was ogling the table behind me), and then he did his assaults, then turned the turn over to me. During my movement phase, as I was getting ready to move those units (after rolling for reserves), he said, "You forgot to take leadership tests on that unit and this one over here" and I was like, "You're right...we have to fix it."

The argument we had was about HOW to fix it. I brought up the assault example as a similar and more poignant example of the same issue. Missing leadership checks or reserve rolls resulting in destroyed units would DEFINITELY be useful, I'm going to start advocating that in tournaments I'm in.

Hmmmm, so since you weren't paying attention to your game, you didn't notice that some of your units should have taken a Morale test. On the flip side, he should have pointed it out BEFORE he made any assault moves.

Personally, I'd just roll the Morale tests and see if they run. Question tho, should any of the units that he assaulted have taken a test? Possibly leading to a failed assault on his part.............? If so, I'd tell him we either skip the tests or we go back to before his assaults. He can't have it both ways.

That was actually my argument. *laughing* Either we skip back to the last turn and take the tests, or ignore them.

My 2 cents:

1. You did the right thing by agreeing that each situation needed to be resolved happily. That really is the most important thing and will help you get through any problems like that. If myself or opponent forgot something like that I would also suggest pausing and taking the test then and there and allow them to recall their charge after the roll is passed/failed.

2. In our area we just try to talk about building levels and whatnot before any rolls or deployment. Ex: if under the bridge, you would have to roll difficult terrain test of 5+ to reach the top. This building has 3 floors and you need a 4+ difficult terrain test to get up a floor.

- Blackbone

2. It's reasonbly common to say that obstacles less tall than you can be climbed. However, I've also played games that had twice the model's height as the limit.

Personally, I'd use a common sense approach. Climbing a broken stone wall twice your height is pretty achievable. Climbing onto a catwalk that's six feet above your head with no wall to push against is very difficult, even with other people helping you.

Dashofpepper wrote:Missing leadership checks or reserve rolls resulting in destroyed units would DEFINITELY be useful, I'm going to start advocating that in tournaments I'm in.

Not really. What does your opponent do when a unit is destroyed? Unless he's allowed to consolidate into another combat by some bizarre house rule, I can see advantages to this with Tau. I often want certain units to die. A morale test and sweeping advance happen often enough, but if forgetting a morale test is a sure thing then why bother?

I put a couple of dice next to any units that have to take morale tests, then roll for each unit at the end of the phase.

Dash, you really have a way of trying to get your way on decisions that don't go your way. You've forgotten 2 major parts:

1. When your Ork Trukk blew up, you insisted that a pinning test is based off of the number of Boyz that existed before several got killed in the explosion: IE immune from a pinning test. I advised fine, but you will still need to make a morale test. Basically, you were reminded to perform the action, but forgot to do so. Conveniently forgetting to do something is akin to cheating.

2. We discussed all rules for terrain prior to the game and the bridge was not a factor. Then, during my turn, you had an issue with the bridge in which my Eldar Jetbikes moved onto.

I've seen your rule interpretations first hand and online as well. Luckily, I won't have to game with you again. Your reputation in the Raleigh area and Jacksonville are very fitting.

He had a problem with Jetbikes ignoring terrain?

Uh oh.

Drama! In tournament play, assume your opponent is a cheating bastard and stay on your toes. If I had a nickel for every time I had to 'remind' a tournament opponent about a crucial rule I could buy a Land Raider. What if we reverse the situation--if your opponent forgets that, for example, his fleeing Devestator squad can automatically rally are you going to remind him about ATSKNF? Hell no.

olympia wrote:What if we reverse the situation--if your opponent forgets that, for example, his fleeing Devestator squad can automatically rally are you going to remind him about ATSKNF? Hell no.

Not going for the Sportsmanship Award eh? Even in a tournament setting, i'm pretty fair at keeping us both within the rules.

Ridcully wrote:

olympia wrote:What if we reverse the situation--if your opponent forgets that, for example, his fleeing Devestator squad can automatically rally are you going to remind him about ATSKNF? Hell no.

Not going for the Sportsmanship Award eh? Even in a tournament setting, i'm pretty fair at keeping us both within the rules.

Sportsmanship I've played in many tournaments and one thing I've noticed is that when you beat someone, regardless of how kindly you do it, you usually take a hit on sportsmanship. Knowing the rules in general, and the rules of your own army specifically, should be a pre-condition of tournament play. If you are not ready for prime time then stay home.

lol, I cringe at the thought of GWAR! as TO. I have this picture of him sitting at a huge judges bench with gavel in hand before neat rows of gaming tables. Players bring brief cases along with figure cases.

The winner is determined by where the word "the" is placed in a particular rule rather than with tactics or strategy.

olympia wrote:\Sportsmanship I've played in many tournaments and one thing I've noticed is that when you beat someone, regardless of how kindly you do it, you usually take a hit on sportsmanship.

Bearing in mind that you're the guy who thinks it's inconceivable to correct your opponent on something potentially beneficial to him.

Ridcully wrote:

olympia wrote:\Sportsmanship I've played in many tournaments and one thing I've noticed is that when you beat someone, regardless of how kindly you do it, you usually take a hit on sportsmanship.

Bearing in mind that you're the guy who thinks it's inconceivable to correct your opponent on something potentially beneficial to him.

Experience is the best teacher. Correcting your opponent's mistakes won't make a bit of difference: if you win prepare to take a hit on sportsmanship. If you correct someone on rules (e.g., telling a guy he can't move his rhino 12" and have a passenger shoot) prepare to take a hit on sportsmanship. This is just the simple fact of tournament play with soft scoring.

olympia wrote:if your opponent forgets that, for example, his fleeing Devestator squad can automatically rally are you going to remind him about ATSKNF? Hell no.

Actually, yeah, I do. I'm silly that way, frequently (even in tourneys) helping my opponents with understanding rules where it's to their advantage.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:He had a problem with Jetbikes ignoring terrain?

I'm not sure if they're supposed to?

Specific to the bridge, I didn't say anything pre-game because I thought everyone treated bridges the same...you get on it from the ramp somewhere, and cross it. Jumping off the top of the bridge seems like it would cause trouble for your jumping units, and having your model jump straight up in the air to more than twice their height to grab the lip of a bridge and clamber on (or with jetbikes using a vertical thrust to shoot into the air and land on top of a bridge) seems like it would be troubling as well.

We didn't discuss it before the game...apparently my understanding about "height of the model" to climb onto something without treating it as terrain isn't universal.

-------------

As for handling missed morale checks in a previous turn; there have been multiple answers. >< I guess there's no clear consensus.

don_mondo wrote:

olympia wrote:if your opponent forgets that, for example, his fleeing Devestator squad can automatically rally are you going to remind him about ATSKNF? Hell no.

Actually, yeah, I do. I'm silly that way, frequently (even in tourneys) helping my opponents with understanding rules where it's to their advantage.

I do the same thing if my opponent is mentally disabled or under 12 years old.

Like I said, I'm silly that way. I think part of it is that I've spent too many years running demos and teaching people how to play and even in a tourney it's hard to slip out of that mode.

Dashofpepper wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:He had a problem with Jetbikes ignoring terrain?

I'm not sure if they're supposed to?

Specific to the bridge, I didn't say anything pre-game because I thought everyone treated bridges the same...you get on it from the ramp somewhere, and cross it. Jumping off the top of the bridge seems like it would cause trouble for your jumping units, and having your model jump straight up in the air to more than twice their height to grab the lip of a bridge and clamber on (or with jetbikes using a vertical thrust to shoot into the air and land on top of a bridge) seems like it would be troubling as well.

We didn't discuss it before the game...apparently my understanding about "height of the model" to climb onto something without treating it as terrain isn't universal.

-------------

As for handling missed morale checks in a previous turn; there have been multiple answers. >< I guess there's no clear consensus.

Jet bikes, like skimmers, can pretty much go where they choose. They ignore terrain and models. They can fly straight over (which is basically 'through' from the measuring side of things) a 10" high impassable terrain wall and land on the other side if they want to.

Dashofpepper wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:He had a problem with Jetbikes ignoring terrain?

I'm not sure if they're supposed to?

"In the movement phase, jetbikes can move over all other models and all terrain freely." p53

Seems pretty clear cut.

It seems more related to whether this counts as distance. Most models are disallowed from such movement, jump troops/jetbikes can move over a unit/terrain feature, but this is distinct from "through" such obstacles.
Another example of 2d descriptions in a 3d game.

In terms of 'forgotten' rolls, I think it's best to use the following ethos, in terms of keeping the game pacy, as well as being a good opponent:

Will rolling now benefit me?
If yes= skip it
If no= roll it now

Will skipping it benefit me?
If yes= roll it now
If no= skip it

The fun part is if both players are using these rules you will get into shenanigans!

Also, there are no rules for 'heroic' actions. A lot of my scenery has nooks and crannies for just this, so we use a modified DnD-mindset for this.

Me: "I want to jump that 6" tall gap there to get into position".
You: "Well ok, but that's pretty risky. Make a -1 dangerous terrain check for that".

Once you're familiar with the rules, you can play with them a bit. Come up with something fun that will benefit but test your little men.