Putting a IC with Kommandos +snikrot

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**Gold tooth Jerry**

Title says it all, I don't know enough about this to defend or support, so I ask you make the call. If you have a rule book reference please post it with your position.

Let me just add that I have never used this application in a game, but heard about it on these forums and would like to see if its true.

**Boss GreenNutz**

I'm building a Dark Elf army that there is a good line in their FAQ. This should be required reading for everyone that plays.

it’s so absurd that
it denotes a very wrong attitude towards the
game (i.e. too extreme application of Rules As
Written against all common sense).

I can imagine a biker boss with them and Snikrot turning around to tell him he needs to be quiet so they can sneak up on the Umies. That'd be a short lived conversation.

**olympia**

Don't even attempt it. You'll be looked at as TFG and you'll have to argue for thirty minutes about it.

**Gwar!**

Raw: Yes. Anyone who argues otherwise is a cheat.

INAT FAQ: No.

**Gold tooth Jerry**

I just check the most current INAT FAQ and its not in there. Once again I have never said that I have used it, but I do need to know a rule that forbids it. I mean if I were to play an ork player and he should do it, I would have no recourse to say no you can't.

**Gwar!**

Gold tooth Jerry wrote:I just check the most current INAT FAQ and its not in there. Once again I have never said that I have used it, but I do need to know a rule that forbids it. I mean if I were to play an ork player and he should do it, I would have no recourse to say no you can't.

Erm, yes it is.

V3.0, Page 65 wrote:ORK.62C.01 – Q: Can an Independent Character (such as a Warboss on a bike) join Snikrot’s unit before the game and arrive with them via ‘Ambush’?
A: No, as Snikrot’s ability is a special rule that does not specify it affects other ICs joined to his unit, it does not [clarification].

**Gold tooth Jerry**

Gwar, I am not saying it doesn't exits but where did you get it. I have the one from yakface version 2.1 but no version 3.0. I need download it

**Gwar!**

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/258618.page

**Gold tooth Jerry**

durn just found it. Thanks for link, A guy that plays in our club was talking about doing it next tournament and non of us could say no you cant, because lack of rules. This will help a lot

**Nightrave**

a Few stupid questions i apologize in advance. We have a few orc players who use this tactic in battles, they Sneak Thraka on the table with snikki via his special "i come on any where i darn well want" rule,

So here is stupid question number one, i know Thraka -can- be attached to the unit via the IC rules, since snik is not an IC, he is just an upgrade for the unit, but is it because thraka is not a kommando that they can't come on the table anywhere? and im to assume then as Gwar and others specified that this is the case, that they have to come in on their table edge yes?

Also i was skimming threw the link giving for the INAT,

Anyhow sorry for the ignorance :(

**Gwar!**

Nightrave wrote:a Few stupid questions i apologize in advance. We have a few orc players who use this tactic in battles, they Sneak Thraka on the table with snikki via his special "i come on any where i darn well want" rule,

So here is stupid question number one, i know Thraka -can- be attached to the unit via the IC rules, since snik is not an IC, he is just an upgrade for the unit, but is it because thraka is not a kommando that they can't come on the table anywhere? and im to assume then as Gwar and others specified that this is the case, that they have to come in on their table edge yes?

Also i was skimming threw the link giving for the INAT,

Anyhow sorry for the ignorance :(

RaW, you CAN arrive from any edge, as the IC is part of Snikrots unit. However, the INAT faq has changed the rule (yet again disguised as a clarification).

**Nightrave**

So as for RAW, Bringing snik and Thraka behind my line is Fine, but INAT says its not? as they "changed" how that works? that seems somewhat confusing.

**Gwar!**

Nightrave wrote:So as for RAW, Bringing snik and Thraka behind my line is Fine, but INAT says its not? as they "changed" how that works? that seems somewhat confusing.

Well, that's the INAT for ya

If you agree to use the INAT, use it. Otherwise just make sure the opponent is clear about it pre game.

**Nightrave**

Makes Sense that way, thanks, i work at the hobby store in town, and i kinda host/run games, so i frequently stay up late on days (like now) and read threw the books. And every now and then i run into the occasional, "um, the hell" question, and it makes it rather difficult so i generally throw down my interpretation for the event, and then if i have to fix it i will for the next event, so far i havn't been off by to much. But this last even has made me dig even further, the orc players kinda...did some wacky ness i wasn't fully sure of, so i cruise dakka and try to see if their are people talking about some of them. This happened to be one of those "hmm" i knew thraka could be in their, i was just unsure if this was an issue, i said it wasn't, since thraka was part of the unit.

**Alpharius**

Gwar! wrote:Raw: Yes. Anyone who argues otherwise is a cheat.

INAT FAQ: No.

I thought we weren't supposed to throw that word around anymore?

**Red_Lives**

Well if you don't agree to use the INAT FAQ before hand, and one of the parties cries "you can't do that" in essence he is attempting to cheat the other player of his special abilities is he not? I think that is the point GWAR was trying to make.

**Ridcully**

Alpharius wrote:
Gwar! wrote:Raw: Yes. Anyone who argues otherwise is a cheat.

INAT FAQ: No.

I thought we weren't supposed to throw that word around anymore?

Rules lawyers like Gwar! are allowed to. It's one of the perks of being TFG.

If we look at the dictionary definition of cheater

–noun
1. a person or thing that cheats.

we can see he's pretty much spot on in correct usage. But allowing ICs to join Snikrot goes against TMIR. In that regard, Gwar! would be a cheater. There are numerous real world examples that back me up on this.

**Gold tooth Jerry**

I am still relatively new to warhammer 40k and the way things are run, but how official is the INAT FAQ. I mean is it done by GW guys or just peoples opinions. I like the way it is set up and have used its rulings even though I do not know the validity of the FAQs them selves.

If its any consolation, there is a guy that always is showing up with other FAQs that I have no idea where he get em from, but we over rule half the stuff he comes in with though. So, I am merely trying to find out the authority on this INAT FAQs should I branch out to other tournaments outside my usual.

**nosferatu1001**

The FAQ itself tells you how official it is - not at all

**wyomingfox**

Gwar! wrote:
Nightrave wrote:So as for RAW, Bringing snik and Thraka behind my line is Fine, but INAT says its not? as they "changed" how that works? that seems somewhat confusing.
Well, that's the INAT for ya

To be fair, the INAT team generally rules that unless a special abillity specifically mentions that it affects attached IC, then it does not. This seams to be in line with thier general consensus so it is not unexpected that they would rule that way.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gold tooth Jerry wrote:I am still relatively new to warhammer 40k and the way things are run, but how official is the INAT FAQ. I mean is it done by GW guys or just peoples opinions. I like the way it is set up and have used its rulings even though I do not know the validity of the FAQs them selves.

If its any consolation, there is a guy that always is showing up with other FAQs that I have no idea where he get em from, but we over rule half the stuff he comes in with though. So, I am merely trying to find out the authority on this INAT FAQs should I branch out to other tournaments outside my usual.

It is not official. However, it is the most comprehensive 3rd party FAQ that exists and makes GW posted online FAQ look anemic and paultry in comparison. It has also been used as the official FAQ by Adepticon (which it was written for) and for US ARD Boyz Finals.

**Gorkamorka**

Yakface wrote:
ORK.62C.01 – Q: Can an Independent Character (such
as a Warboss on a bike) join Snikrot’s unit before the
game and arrive with them via ‘Ambush’?
A: No, as Snikrot’s ability is a special rule that does not
specify it affects other ICs joined to his unit, it does not.

This ruling, again is based on a rules argument that has been done many times over in this forum regarding whether or not ICs can gain special rules by joining units. Page 48 of the rule specifies that ICs do not gain special rules when joining a unit unless the special rule specifies that they do. This, of course, brings up the question of what level of specificity is needed. The example they give in the rulebook is 'stubborn' which clearly states that it affects ICs joining the unit.

Snikrot's special rules says it applies to 'his unit', so this has always raised the question of whether this is specific enough to apply to joined ICs as well. We had a long debate when making this ruling and ultimately decided that ICs already get plenty of bonuses in the game and it was probably safer to stick with the stricter interpretation of the rule and say that special rules are not conferred onto joined ICs unless the rule actually says that it applies to ICs.

So for Snikrot's Ambush special rule to apply to joined ICs it would have to say:

"When Snikrot, his unit and any joined Independent Characters become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge."

**Gwar!**

wyomingfox wrote:It is not official. However, it is the most comprehensive 3rd party FAQ that exists and makes GW posted online FAQ look anemic and paultry in comparison.

A-hem. I think you mean ONE of the most comprehensive 3rd party FAQ that exists and makes GW posted online FAQ look anemic and paultry in comparison.

**wyomingfox**

To be fair, the INAT FAQ covers all the armies. But, yes, your SW FAQ puts GW professional efforts to shame.

**olympia**

Gorkamorka wrote:
Yakface wrote:
Snikrot's special rules says it applies to 'his unit', so this has always raised the question of whether this is specific enough to apply to joined ICs as well. We had a long debate when making this ruling and ultimately decided that ICs already get plenty of bonuses in the game and it was probably safer to stick with the stricter interpretation of the rule and say that special rules are not conferred onto joined ICs unless the rule actually says that it applies to ICs.

So for Snikrot's Ambush special rule to apply to joined ICs it would have to say:

"When Snikrot, his unit and any joined Independent Characters become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge."

And yet "his unit" is specific enough for the painboy to grant FNP to a joined Warboss. Interesting.

**Tri**

olympia wrote:
Gorkamorka wrote:
Yakface wrote:
Snikrot's special rules says it applies to 'his unit', so this has always raised the question of whether this is specific enough to apply to joined ICs as well. We had a long debate when making this ruling and ultimately decided that ICs already get plenty of bonuses in the game and it was probably safer to stick with the stricter interpretation of the rule and say that special rules are not conferred onto joined ICs unless the rule actually says that it applies to ICs.

So for Snikrot's Ambush special rule to apply to joined ICs it would have to say:

"When Snikrot, his unit and any joined Independent Characters become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge."

And yet "his unit" is specific enough for the painboy to grant FNP to a joined Warboss. Interesting.

Its also enough to grant any one in a unit +1 to their cover save if one person has stealth ... Personally I think its one of the only useful ability's of Kommandos ... with out it you might as well never use them.

**RustyKnight**

Alpharius wrote:
Gwar! wrote:Raw: Yes. Anyone who argues otherwise is a cheat.

INAT FAQ: No.

I thought we weren't supposed to throw that word around anymore?

Gwar! is bound by neither the Tenents of YMDC nor by consistency.

On the topic of the INAT FAQ, me and my mates use it for all our games. Its easily the best third person FAQ out, and the only one that, as far as I know, GW themselves have used.

**Gwar!**

RustyKnight wrote:Gwar! is bound by neither the Tenents of YMDC nor by consistency.

Nope, I Transcend Spess Mahrine Tiem!

**apwill4765**

Gwar! wrote:
Nightrave wrote:a Few stupid questions i apologize in advance. We have a few orc players who use this tactic in battles, they Sneak Thraka on the table with snikki via his special "i come on any where i darn well want" rule,

So here is stupid question number one, i know Thraka -can- be attached to the unit via the IC rules, since snik is not an IC, he is just an upgrade for the unit, but is it because thraka is not a kommando that they can't come on the table anywhere? and im to assume then as Gwar and others specified that this is the case, that they have to come in on their table edge yes?

Also i was skimming threw the link giving for the INAT,

Anyhow sorry for the ignorance :(
RaW, you CAN arrive from any edge, as the IC is part of Snikrots unit. However, the INAT faq has changed the rule (yet again disguised as a clarification).

I think you mean it clarified the INTENT of the rule by changing the RAW

**wyomingfox**

Tri wrote:Its also enough to grant any one in a unit +1 to their cover save if one person has stealth ... Personally I think its one of the only useful ability's of Kommandos ... with out it you might as well never use them.

Huh? I wasn't aware that stealth was a USR that was passed from Unit to Character and vise versus.

**Gwar!**

wyomingfox wrote:
Tri wrote:Its also enough to grant any one in a unit +1 to their cover save if one person has stealth ... Personally I think its one of the only useful ability's of Kommandos ... with out it you might as well never use them.

Huh? I wasn't aware that stealth was a USR that was passed from Unit to Character and vise versus.

It does. As long as one model has Stealth, the "units cover saves are improved by +1".