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Hi guys!

A mate of mine is fairly new to his SOBs, and he's in the process of seeing which units he likes, so we dicided to let him proxy ALOT, untill he's made his mind up a little.

In the light of that, and me not having tried alot of the ork units (just a: the ones I used in last edition of our codex, and changing 'em up in the new dex, there's still alot I haven't tried). I'm going to make a "test list", with almost all units I haven't tried yet.

The units I haven't used are:
Regular nobs (tried the MANZ, but they ran into those rokkit organs the SOBS have.. ap 1. ouch!)
Burna boys
'ard boys
Stormboys (did use 'em a little in last 'dex, but just a game or two)
Warbuggies (I've exchanged 'em for koptas since the new dex... never did try 'em in the new though).
Warbikers (never tried 'em, as I can't picture 'em in a blood axe army... might work as squigriders though.)
Deff dreads. (see killa kans)
Killa kans. (never used 'em, as they've semed too vulnerable, with all anti tank weapns about.. Though after seeing my mates 3 man unit of penitent engines.. yeah, imune to small arms fire might be good...)
Flash gits. (used 'em in last edition, to represent my "looted guardians", with the range 24, assault 2 shootas...)

So, I'm going to try to make this into an armylist. I think I'll loose, but I'm hoping to atleast draw.

Here's the "list"

1 Warboss (leads the burnaboys)
+Powerklaw
+shoota/scorcha
+Attack squig
+eavy armour
+cybork body
: 120

Bigmekk (leads the flashgits)
+big choppa
+Attack squig
+eavy armour
+bosspole
+KFF
: 110

4 nobs(wac abused)
+2pk
+2 uge choppas
+2 combi scorchas
+4 eavy armour
+waagh banner
1 painboy
+grot orderly
: 240

14 burnaboys (led by warboss)
1 mek
+grot oiler
: 230

23 shoota ard boys
+2 bigshootas
1 Nob
+bosspole
+Powerklaw
+eavy armour
: 291

deff dread
+dread cc
+scorcha
: 95

3 killakans
+3 grotzookas
: 135

9 flash gits(led by bigmekk)
+more dakka
1 painboy
+grot orderly
: 290

11 stormboys
1 nob
+bosspole
+powerklaw
+eavy armour
: 184

5 Warbikes
1 warbike nob
+pk
+bp
: 190

3 warbuggies
+twl rokkits
: 105

total: 2000

Now, initial thoughts: all slow units will be within kff range from the bigmekk. dread and kans within' "fix it" range by meks and big mek.

Only change to the unit rooster, I'll consider, is to exchange the flashgits for a tankbusta unit(putting the bigmek with the 'ardboys), and buy a trukk to the nobs that they'll steal... (this is actually something i'm seriously considering doing, as it's a big candidate for what ends up in my real list... and why I'm even trying out a small nob unit ).
Other than that, these are the units I intend to proxy, just to see how they work, as I haven't tried 'em in this edition. how the individual units are made up though, that's a whole different matter =) as far as I've read here and on the waagh, this seems to be the best lay outs for each unit, but I'm hoping you might help me tweak 'em if they ain't... =)

Just looking at the list, I'm amazed at how cheap the kans+dread were. Let's just hope they perform the way I hope...

//Calle

You need more nobz. A unit of 6-7 is affective plus the painboy.

Burnas need a transport. No point in having short range template weapons or power weapons and then foot slogging.

Lootas are far better than flash gitz.

You need more storm boyz or warbuggies. A unit of storm boyz won't last long in the open, and if your using cover it counts as dangerous terrain for jump pack troops. I would personally exchange them for deffkopters along with the warbikes.

5+ cover isn't anything to write home about. If your doing a foot slogging list you need killa kanz, one unit of three per unit of boyz. The KFF gives them 4+ cover and then they in turn give the boyz 4+ cover.

First off only two troop choices in a 2,000 point game = fail. Same with testing units in a list with no synergy, they'll all seem to suck just because they don't work as a whole.

For example, bikers and buggies don't work in a foot list so drop them and try a Kult of Speed list next time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now as a whole unit by unit these are my thoughts:

Warboss: Seeing as your footsloging he should be Ghazzy. You can gain the points for your monster HQ by cutting the units I list below.

Mek: Mek should always be naked except for his KKF. He isn't a combat unit in this, or any list.

Nobz: I would go with this, 5 Nobz (PK; PK, Ammo Grot; Big Choppa; Big Choppa, Ammo Grot; Pain Boy)

Burnas: 15 Burnas + B Wagon (RPJ, 2x BS).

Boyz: 29 Boyz (3x BS), Nob (PK)

Deff Dread: 2x DCC, or 2x Scorchas

Killa Kans: Nailed it, though KMB isn't bad either.

Flash Gitz: Never... Never Ever.... EVER...

Storm Boyz: They don't fit, same with the bikers and buggies.

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Channeling Dash here I would go with this:

HQ
-Ghazghkull: 225
-Mek (KFF): 85

Elites
-Kommandos x9 (2x Burna), Snikrot: 205
-Burnas x10: 150
-Burnas x10: 150

Troops
-Nobz (PK; PK, Ammo Grot; Big Choppa; Big Choppa, Ammo Grot, Pain Boy): 196
-Deff Dread (2x Skorcha): 85
-Boyz x29 (3x Big Shoota), Nob (PK): 215
-Boyz x29 (3x Big Shoota), Nob (PK): 215
-Gretchin x19, Runtherd: (67)

Heavy Support
-Killa Kans x3 (3x Grot Zooka): 135
-Killa Kans x3 (3x Grot Zooka): 135
-Killa Kans x3 (3x Grot Zooka): 135

1,998

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This list works like this:

In every case you deploy up as far as you can. In Dawn of War walk up everything, except for what should stay in reserve, as far us as you can turn 1 and then run to spread out. DoW might be the worst for this list, but if he comes in turn 2 Ghazy will get his charge and you don't get shot much on T1.

Your Deff Dread takes point with the Kans behind in a line with three to four inches between Kans to give each infantry unit behind cover.

The Nobz are behind the Kans, but ahead of the trailing Boyz squad with your Mek.

The Burnas are up front just ahead of your two flanking squads of Boyz.

The middle Boyz squad has the Mek and the others are beside but back a bit to make room for the Burnas.

Ghazy and Snikrot are in reserve, either they make your enemy deploy 19" inches from each edge to avoid a charge the turn the reserves come in and your enemy starts forward and bunched up for you.

The Gretchin hide and hopeful hold a point in your zone. If not reserves and they go to ground in cover.

Your strategy is this:

Walk up field blasting away. When Ghazy comes in, make a made maximum distance 18" Waaagh! of Doom! The game is decided. The End.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now as you said you were having a fun game with a new player you could know all of this and simply want to play a mixed bag of random units for a laugh, in which case you did as well as you could except for the Flash Gitz. Seriously never use them and try to E-Bay any you have or use them as Lootas.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, I get it right this time Dash?

My mate has agreed to go to battle with me today, so this'll be fun =)

I know it's hard to "test" models in synergy-less lists, but I see this as a first tryout, just me getting the feel for 'em. If I sense real potential, I'll toss 'em into my regualr list and REALLY try 'em out =)

I'm REALLY dubious to the flash git's cost, I still have about an hour or two to finish a list, and I think they'll get the cut.
I do believe you are right though, the burnas NEED a transport, and I'll try to supply 'em with a looted wagon with scorcha.
I'll se if I can't exchange the flashgits for a unit of tankbustas (with trukk bought by the nobs) and a LW with a scorcha for the burnas.

I won't have lootas in the list, as I've already used 'em, and whilst they're darn good, they don't fit with my playstyle, as I dislike being tied down in order to shoot. (assault weapons ).

Deffkoptas feature heavily in my normal list, so I won't exchange the stormboys for 'em.

I'll fiddle around with the list, keeping your suggestions in mind, I'll toss up the list and how it went when I get back! (though we might have to "pause" the game, as my mate's working the nightshift, and continue it tomorrow... anyhoo, once we're done, I'll tell you how it went =)

Thanks for the help lads!

Flash Gitz - NO- their weapons good but the BS of 2 is garbage for a shootie unit.

Norade wrote:

So, I get it right this time Dash?

Anytime someone is using units at under full strength I disapprove. ><

Hey, thought I'd post the "finished" list, I'm heading over to my mates place in a couple of minutes. will post a cut down battlereport (or atleast battle evaluation) when the game is done.

HQ:
1 Warboss (rides with the burnaboys)
+Powerklaw
+shoota/scorcha
+Attack squig
+eavy armour
+cybork body
: 120

Bigmekk (leads the 'ardboys)
+KFF
: 85

ELITE:
11 burnaboys (rides in the looted wagon)
: 165

11 Tankbustas (Will ride in the nobs trukk)
+3 tankhammers, 3 bomb-squigs
1 tankbusta nob
+bosspole
: 210

TROOPS:
23 'ard shoota boys
+eavy armour
+2 bigshootas
1 Nob
+bosspole
+Powerklaw
+eavy armour
: 290

4 nobs (PK; PK, combi scorcha; Uge choppa, Waagh banner; Uge choppa Combiscorcha)
+2 powerklaws
+2 uge choppas
+2 combi scorchas
+4 eavy armour
+waagh banner
1 painboy
: 235

trukk (for TBs, bought to the nobs)
+reinforced ram
: 40

deff dread
+2 scorchas
: 85

FAST:
19 stormboys
1 nob
+bosspole
+powerklaw
: 280

5 Warbikes
1 warbike nob
+powerklaw
+boss pole
: 190

3 warbuggies
+twl rokkits
: 105

HEAVY:
3 killakans
+3 grotzookas
: 135

Looted wagon
+scorcha
+1 bigshoota
+reinforced ram
: 60

total: 2000
left: 0

Your 4 nobz are walking?

Storm boyz won't last long, need a supporting storm boy unit.

Looted wagons are uncontrolable.

Yeah, there's a lot with this army list that I don't approve of. =p

OP: Play it a few times in a non competitive setting to get a feel for its strengths and weaknesses. Your personal experience will always trump what people on the internet can tell you, and if your experiences mirror what's being said here, all the better.

Looted wagon....*shudder*

Still at my mates place, just checking here while he eats.

As I stated earlier, this is just a rough try to get a fell for how the units I haven't used before handles.

So far, I love the way the TB's work with a trukk, and can actually get into range o do something...
The nobs are in cover, holding my home objective.
The kans and dread worked excellently to give the boys good cover, and next turn or so, I'll veer the dread off to capture an objective to the lank, still keeping the KFF within 6", whilst the boys and kans stretch out towards another objective.
The stormboys have survived this far, so have the LW with the burnaboys (edging around behind some woods, to contest 2 objectives (or simply anhilate anything that approaches 'em.)

The buggies has been the biggest let down so far. they couldn't hit a barn from within, and one went down first turn.

I think I'm falling in love with grotzookas... half of 'em hit a vehicle (av11) and 2 scattered into a stormtrooper group, taking out 6-7, and one scattered away.
So far, so good. we won't be able to finish today, but we will tomorrow.

Laters
//Calle

I think I would consider flash gitz if they were 15pts, an elites choice, and could select a BW like nobz for transport.

Nobz have a 4+ save, no invulnerable and the unit is too small. If something which comes along which doesn't allow cover then they're dead i.e dragon fire rounds from Space Marine Sternguard :(

! I'd forgotten to post in this thread 'till I saw an e-mail notification today...

The battle went over expectations, He was wiped by the end of turn 4.

He did make a few tactical mistakes though, as did I. (forgetting that warbikes have an inv. save of their own, and instead keeping 'em under kff protection waiting for the right moment to race forward... *facepalm*, He's still a bit unsure about his sisters, so he edged a wee bit too close to me, which resulted in a massive wipeout.
He also forgot to pop smoke with his transports.

I'll let him play this list once more, to see if he can avoid making TOO much of a tactical blunder next time.

And the fact that alot of my army never saw action kinda annoys me.

Other than that, the units that have seriously amazed me:
'Kans =cheap, yet with grotzookas deadly. the 4+ cover save these blokes will give my standard shoota boys in my regular list will be much helpfull.. (they cost 30ish points more than my regular grot screen and they're HOW much more efficent???)
Burnaboys (in a looted wagon, with scorcha)... damn, these guys were expensive.. but his tooled up Inquisitor with tooled up retinue went Fwoooosh!!! leaving a 1 wound left inq standing looking confused in front of my warboss...
Tankbustas in a trukk.. seriously, they're almost as efficent as they were in last edition *love*... blew out 2 vehicles and a unit of walkers in one turn, (shooting + bombsquigs), then proceeded to charge (and kill) 2 penitent engines...

I'll definately try this list again, and this time it'll be harder as my mate'll have his target prioritised correctly =)

//Calle

I don't think you're allowed to take 3 tankhammers. . . the max is two.

Stormboyz are definitely a good choice. A unit of 20 including a PK nob only comes to 275 points, and is pretty much guaranteed to be mixing it up by turn two. They also make an admirable distraction to draw fire away from footsloggers, because their speed makes them seem much more dangerous.

I have never used kans, so I have no comment on them.

You had a bad experience with the buggies? Odd, I've always liked buggies. Remember their weapons are twin-linked, so they have a 55% hit rate. A squad of 3 with rokkits will generally do some damage; 3 TL S8 shots = 1.5 hits, about 1 glance or pen against AV 12 on average, and they have the mobility to get side or rear shots most of the time. Alternatively, give them skorchas and use them to soften up the enemy lines just before the boyz get stuck in.

Burna boyz; well, they CAN be very effective, but often they won't. They need to get within a max of about 6" in order to do anything at all, and when I've run them I've found they get shot to hell and gone before they get close. That 6+ armor just doesn't hold up. For the points, I'd rather take more boyz or nobz.

i beg to differ with the burna boy comment they are useful most of the time. you just need to put them in the right vehicles. like a Battlewagon

storm boys are far too expenive for me but i think their character upgrade is a looot of fun. i would take them out though and add more killakans for more fun

also i would replace the buggies and war bikers with more boyz and just play a killakan wall i would also replace the tankbustas with a squad of kommandoes and snikrot, and then attach the warboss to that squad so that you can ambush with him and take out threats right away and it'll make your opponent think twice about deploying too close to his table edge

that's my 2 cents. hope you have lotsa fun with your boyz

IIRC, kommandos (even with snikrot) loose their special rules if you attach a IC that doesn't have 'em.

'Zerk, you're right about the tankhammers, I'll sort that out.

ATM, I'm trying to think up a way of making the 'nobs unit cheaper, as after all, they're only there in order to supply the tankbustas with a trukk...

I'm considering running 'em as a countercharge unit, in a fashion similar to how most IG players use their command squads...
Maybe ditching one PK, and maybe a uge choppa, and tossing the warboss in there...


I'm currently working on my standard lists, Painting and converting, this is it's pool of units I intend to have:
Warboss with PK, combiscorcha,attack squig and 'eavy armour.
Bigmekk with KFF
25 shootaboys (incl 2 bigshootas and a PK/BP nob) *intend to have a spare pk/bp nob so they can be split into two, and given a trukk each*
25 shootaboys (incl 2 bigshootas and a PK/BP nob) *intend to have a spare pk/bp nob so they can be split into two, and given a trukk each*
13 Kommandos (incl 2 rokkits and a Uge choppa/bp nob. will also have a PK/bp nob in reserve...) *could be "count as" slugga boys in a pinch*
13 Kommandos (incl 2 burnas and a PK/BP nob) *could be "count as" slugga boys in a pinch*
20 slugga 'ardboys (incl a PK/BP nob).
3 Deffkoptas (modded to have magnetized big bomms and buzzsaws)
3 Deffkoptas (modded to have magnetized big bomms and buzzsaws)
2 Trukks
3 BWs (converted so I could use 'em with 'ardcase, Killkannon and 'rolla, or just some of 'em.)
1 Lobba unit
1 Kannon unit

That'll give me variety enugh to pull off all kinds of lists.
Mechanised: 2 BWs with 20 shootaboys in each, 1 with 'ardboys. "kommandos" as sluggaboys in the trukks. bigmekk to provide a coversave for hopefully all vehicles. 'koptas for the rest of the points.
Shooty mechaninised: 2 BW's with Killkannons and shootaboys, one BW with or without Killkannon for the 'ardboys. Perhaps 'ardcase. shoota boys in trukks. and 'koptas like above.
Semi-mech (my regular list): 2 Trukks with shootaboys. 2 kommando units. a BIG footslogging ork unit, with 'boss and kff. ardboy unit. 2 'kopta units. Kannons, and lobbas. a BW for the 'ardboys depending on points.
Semi-Mech shooty: 2 big shootaboy units. 'ardboy unit. 1 speedbump kommando unit with rokkits, 1 countercharge kommando unit with PK and burnas. BW with 'ardcase and killkannon. Lobbas and kannons. depending on points, add koptas and exhange kannons for a 2nd shooty BW.
slowpoke: infantry horde styled.

The way I feel right now, 3-6 kans would make a good addition to my "pool" above. as would Tankbustas (if they have a trukk, which means a unit of nobs aswell). After that, a burna unit is something that'll probably be included.

The 'dread, stormboys, bikes and buggies really didn't do it for me in the last game, though that's probably just me not being used to 'em. (and making gakky mistakes). As I've stated before, I'm giving the list another chance, but the bikes and buggies are closest to the chopping block atm.

I'm also having a hard time imagining how to Bloodaxeify 'kans...

//Calle

Jag_Calle wrote:[color=green
Tankbustas in a trukk.. seriously, they're almost as efficent as they were in last edition *love*... blew out 2 vehicles and a unit of walkers in one turn, (shooting + bombsquigs), then proceeded to charge (and kill) 2 penitent engines...

[/color]

Myabe I am misunderstanding something. But how can one unit of tankbustas kill 2 vehicles and a unit of walkers in one turn? The bomb squigs just run to the nearest tank, which is fine, as this could be another target. But if the tankbustas shot at a vehicle and blown it up, then they wouldn't be able to assault the walkers as its a seperate unit.

Can you perhaps explain this in a little more detail?

mercer wrote:

Jag_Calle wrote:[color=green
Tankbustas in a trukk.. seriously, they're almost as efficent as they were in last edition *love*... blew out 2 vehicles and a unit of walkers in one turn, (shooting + bombsquigs), then proceeded to charge (and kill) 2 penitent engines...

[/color]

Myabe I am misunderstanding something. But how can one unit of tankbustas kill 2 vehicles and a unit of walkers in one turn? The bomb squigs just run to the nearest tank, which is fine, as this could be another target. But if the tankbustas shot at a vehicle and blown it up, then they wouldn't be able to assault the walkers as its a seperate unit.

Can you perhaps explain this in a little more detail?

Bombsquigs are capable of destroying more than one vehicle in a single turn, if you have multiples. If the first one destroys the nearest vehicle and there is another legitimate target, the second one will go after the new closest vehicle. Since you can have three, you might even be able to take out three vehicles with them in one turn. In this case, he killed two.

Then he shoots at the walkers, and destroys them.

Finally he assaults the Penitent Engines, and blows them with tankbusta bombs and tankhammers.

That would require an INSANE amount of luck in the Shooting phase, but it is technically possible.

Ah cool. All explained now. Originally wasn't mentioned how many bomb squigs were taken.

HOwever that is a massive amount of luck.

Heh, Guess we made a rule-mistake again...

We've allways played that if you wipe out whatever it is you shoot at, you're allowed to assault something else... as the victim unit is no longer around..

Heh, this will help me out LOTS! a page reference in the BBB would be awsome =)

//Calle

No, you were right. Mercer misunderstood. You are allowed to assault something different is you destroy your target in the shooting phase.

The only time you're allowed to assault something different than what you shoot at is if you shot at a transport and blow it up, then assault what's in it.

Berzerker, don't give bad rule advice; if in doubt - consult the rulebook.

Flash gitz and Storm boyz are Ork Blashemy.

I always have good luck with stormboys. Just Deep Strike them with Boss Zagstrukk(sp?) somewhere that they will have a good chance of being within assault range. I'll gladly lose D3 orks for a chance to roll an unprotected tank in the back lines. and even if you dont land in assault range initiative 4 on a power claw is pretty sweet.

ATM, I'm trying to think up a way of making the 'nobs unit cheaper, as after all, they're only there in order to supply the tankbustas with a trukk...

Ork boys can also take a Trukk for your TB's. 10 boys + trukk = 95 pts. + trukk wargear

Dashofpepper wrote:The only time you're allowed to assault something different than what you shoot at is if you shot at a transport and blow it up, then assault what's in it.

Berzerker, don't give bad rule advice; if in doubt - consult the rulebook.

Well, I wasn't in doubt. I may be wrong, but I'm usually wrong with confidence.

So, can you give us a quote, here? I was very much under the impression that if you destroyed your target in the shooting phase, you were allowed to assault something different.

Page 33 dude, this is a main core rule and should be known Its the paragraph above the image.

You can only assault a unit which was in a transport, which got destroyed in the shooting phase. This is in the dedicated transport part within the main rule book.

needs more dakka!