Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Time-In-Prison--70426052.html?yhp=1

So now if you get bad service and refuse to pay the gratuity you get arrested? Then I guess it´s not a tip but a service charge and should be included in every dish.
What´s next, mandatory charity?

M.

I don't believe in forced gratuity but in this case it is required that they pay the extra 18%, there is no way around it. Not paying it is like walking out without paying the bill.

So in essence a required gratuity like in the aforementioned article is more or less a service charge. It's like paying for full-service gasoline.

I don't think it should be required to leave a tip but on the flip side I've seen really irritating customers who do whatever they can to frustrate and belittle the wait staff, rack up a $200 food bill and then not leave a tip at all even though the waiter/waitress practically kissed their ass.

Not to mention, in my parts most of the eateries that auto charge the gratuity are along the lines of $10 glass of beer and $50 for a t-bone steak and in those establishments a snotty/crappy/slack happy waiter won't last very long as the eatery prides itself on good service and good food.

Still not right but I can see a point for it.

I can understand mandatory gratuity for a party of guests over a certain number, never seen it for bills over certain amounts(then again, I'm not a drinker, so I don't frequent bars, they could be different).

I know the managers at the restaurants I worked at would remove the charges for items if the service was that bad and some one complained without asking and then bring the checks themselves and explain the removed charges.

Then again, the restaurants I've worked at, the managers also called in extra workers and/or taken tables themselves if it got too too busy like the managers in this story say.

That´s my point, a bill should be:

Food: 100$ Beverages: 100$ Service: 100$ Total: 300$

not your average service bill
Food: 100$ Beverages: 100$ Total: 200$ "Not so voluntary" gratuity: 100$

M.

In the UK you can refuse to pay part of a restaurant bill on grounds of quality complaints.

I've done it myself when very annoyed by bad service.

It isn't theft. It is a contract dispute and the restaurateur can pursue through the small claims court.

Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends.

Party of 8 with a required gratuity. They walked out on the bill.

the original article wrote:Police charged them with theft since the gratuity was part of the actual bill. However, it is doubtful that the charges will hold up in front of a judge. The couple is scheduled to appear in court next month.

I never tip unless it is excellent service.
But she had to refill her own drink i mean c,mon really.

Excellent. I can't stand people who don't tip properly. They suck donkey balls and not in the good way.

LOL, i tipd quite a bit in Vegas but all the waiters/bar staff were lovely! i never had one bad experiance! I don't mind tipping if its good service. I've never seen a mandatory tip before.

Lets call this a service charge, as the OP mentioned.

The only service provided to your table, is taking the order, and bringing the food and drinks once. Not a single time does anyone who works in the restaurant take so much as the time of day to ask if you needed anything.

That... is a fething joke. Those types of restaurants can kiss my freaking ass.

Gratuity - "something given without claim or demand"

Service charges are a joke. The whole reason for going out somewhere is that someone else can do the work for you because, you know, that's what they're paid for. The argument that tips make up a large chunk of their pay doesn't float with me as if it's not good enough then it's their responsibility to improve their standard of living, not mine.

I've always humped my ass off at work for little or no reward so why should someone get 10% of the bill for bringing out my plate? They don't give us the option to get our own plates, do they?

It's money for nothing and everybody wants it. I tip if I receive service on the same level, or above, I would expect myself to give.

Being arrested for not paying a tip is moronic. What next, 10 years in prison for not putting that penny change in the charity box on the cashier desk?

Frazzled wrote:Excellent. I can't stand people who don't tip properly. They suck donkey balls and not in the good way.

You won't like Japan then. There's no tipping.

Roze wrote:LOL, i tipd quite a bit in Vegas but all the waiters/bar staff were lovely! i never had one bad experiance! I don't mind tipping if its good service. I've never seen a mandatory tip before.

In the states its typical for larger parties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Excellent. I can't stand people who don't tip properly. They suck donkey balls and not in the good way.

You won't like Japan then. There's no tipping.

I do like Latin America though. Its all about tipping.

Frazzled wrote:

Roze wrote:LOL, i tipd quite a bit in Vegas but all the waiters/bar staff were lovely! i never had one bad experiance! I don't mind tipping if its good service. I've never seen a mandatory tip before.

In the states its typical for larger parties.

Don't listen to Frazz, get two tables and tell them to kiss your ass.

I won't say that there are not a few restaurants with well trained staff, but they are definitely few and far between.

I have been to far too many restaurants where the staff was more interested in talking to themselves, than actually providing the goddam service they are paid for. This isn't freaking Mcdonalds donkey-cave, my party is going to spend upwards of 500 dollars for this meal, provide some goddam fething service.

NBC wrote:Pope claimed that they had to wait nearly an hour for their order and that she had to get napkins and silverware for the table herself.

Dude... no fething way. I would have left, no questions asked, so in that way, these people may have been asking for it.

Wrexasaur wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Roze wrote:LOL, i tipd quite a bit in Vegas but all the waiters/bar staff were lovely! i never had one bad experiance! I don't mind tipping if its good service. I've never seen a mandatory tip before.

In the states its typical for larger parties.

Don't listen to Frazz, get two tables and tell them to kiss your ass.

I won't say that there are not a few restaurants with well trained staff, but they are definitely few and far between.

I have been to far too many restaurants where the staff was more interested in talking to themselves, than actually providing the goddam service they are paid for. This isn't freaking Mcdonalds donkey-cave, my party is going to spend upwards of 500 dollars for this meal, provide some goddam fething service.

I'd bet good money you never worked in food service.

I do tend to always leave a tip, but don't you dare tell me how much you think it should be. That is for me and my fellow diners to decide between us.

If I get excellent service, the waiter/waitress gets given the tip personally, as having worked in a Restaurant, I object to chefs getting paid more, AND a share of the tips. They are there to cook the food. I am there to keep the customers happy. Food pays for them, tip pays for me.

Frazz wrote:I'd bet good money you never worked in food service.

What does that have to do with anything?

So it is absolutely okay to ignore a table and leave them to wait for an hour for food? You have to be joking Frazz. That is absolutely ridiculous.

Mad Doc wrote:I do tend to always leave a tip, but don't you dare tell me how much you think it should be. That is for me and my fellow diners to decide between us.

Bingo.

If I get excellent service, the waiter/waitress gets given the tip personally, as having worked in a Restaurant, I object to chefs getting paid more, AND a share of the tips. They are there to cook the food. I am there to keep the customers happy. Food pays for them, tip pays for me.

This is how I feel as well, good service gets good tips. Keeping the customers happy does not have to involve footrubs, but an occasional stop by the table is always a good thing.

Wrexasaur wrote:So it is absolutely okay to ignore a table and leave them to wait for an hour for food? You have to be joking Frazz. That is absolutely ridiculous.

1. I am always joking, except when I am not. Only the wife knows which is which.
2. Sorry I didn't read the article, just "didn't pay bill." Now that I read it I see the point.

But in time honored Dakka tradition I refuse to back down.
Time for Mr. Guillotine!

I've only been in a few restaurants in the USA and service varied as much as I would have expected in the UK. Which was disappointing because people are always going on about how great the service is in the USA compared to UK.

The best was at the Olive Garden, which is a middle-price chain restaurant I didn't have much expectations of. That was pretty good in fact and the food and wine was okay too. We had a very large party so I think we got looked after.

The worst was actually at a fairly fancy restaurant in South Beach. Service was slow and inattentive. My mother got food poisoning, and the waiter didn't bother to validate my credit card properly. We had a party of eight on that occasion.

Unfortunately my mother did not 'bushu suru' on the waiter, which would have been a nice way to round off the evening.

Kilkrazy wrote:I've only been in a few restaurants in the USA and service varied as much as I would have expected in the UK. Which was disappointing because people are always going on about how great the service is in the USA compared to UK.

The best was at the Olive Garden, which is a middle-price chain restaurant I didn't have much expectations of. That was pretty good in fact and the food and wine was okay too. We had a very large party so I think we got looked after.

The worst was actually at a fairly fancy restaurant in South Beach. Service was slow and inattentive. My mother got food poisoning, and the waiter didn't bother to validate my credit card properly. We had a party of eight on that occasion.

Unfortunately my mother did not 'bushu suru' on the waiter, which would have been a nice way to round off the evening.

I like Olive Garden actually. We always had good service. When GC was in the Twos and Truly "Going Genghis" we would get into one of the round booths with SWMBO'd on one end and me on the other and she would would ping pong and make a gigantic mess. They were always very helpful. We always started the dinner though with "we're messy but we tip very well."
SWMBO worked in food service and we both believe everyone should work there or retail. It really reflects character to see how a person treats wait staff.

EDIT: Here's a dating tip you youngins. When you go on a date see how the other person acts with waitstaff, even at a fast food place. Are they friendly? Are they cold? Are they somewhat pompous? Usually its an indicator of their real personality.

Pope should've just talked to management about this but thats a pain in the ass in itself I suppose.

However talking to management about this problem, professionally, would likely do a lot more good. No restaurant manager wants servers described in the article and a restaurant's service is one of the biggest factors for dining in such establishments.

Calling the cops and handcuffing the customers over this incident will only be bad news for that restaurant.

One of the places I go to for lunch at night sometimes, Katz's Deli in Houston, actually tacks on an automatic 5% gratuity for take out orders. I mean... seriously... what the hell... I'm not eating there... I am the customer you should like the most... the one that leaves as fast as possible with the barest amount of wait staff interaction, and you still are making me tip. What service did I get? You were open? I have to pay for that? I thought that was taken into the cost of the food.

There's my beer fueled rant for the day.

Beer fueled rant? It's only 10AM?

And? Your point being?

IT'S ALWAYS GROBI TIME!

one other quick story... got out of a bill once because of bad service. It was pretty bad there and we at bill time we were still stuck waiting 30 minutes to try and cash out. We finally lit the bill on fire and held it up like a signal flare to get their attention. The manager storms over and tells us to just leave. We even tried to protest that we are trying to give him money, even after the bad service, but he wanted us out. Oh well... free food. That place didn't last much past a year after that either.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

malfred wrote:Beer fueled rant? It's only 10AM?

10PM for me. I work graveyard.

@MDG... that's awesome... and fits with my beer philosophy.

So lunch to you is what hour now?

malfred wrote:So lunch to you is what hour now?

half past midnight usually.

I worked in a restaurant kitchen for 3 years and my lady is both a barperson and waitress in an itailian restaurant (great food, great staff, great service) now, we both believe that you only should tip if you had a good time with good service, she gets a lot of tip money due to it being a good establishment.

I was in a restaurant with 9 friends, causing us to incure the 10% service chance, which we paid but we got sneared at when we didn't leave a tip, it wasn't left because 1 and half hours for our order is unprofessional (45mins is the limit we used to have for a wait on food) the classes were dirty, the waiters showed no interest or care in us.

A person gets paid to do a service at a certain level, that of the establishment and the local law, the tip is for service above this.

The restaurant in this news story now looks like the biggest that doesn't give a about its customers, they will have to make up big style to get customers back

Frazzled wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I've only been in a few restaurants in the USA and service varied as much as I would have expected in the UK. Which was disappointing because people are always going on about how great the service is in the USA compared to UK.

The best was at the Olive Garden, which is a middle-price chain restaurant I didn't have much expectations of. That was pretty good in fact and the food and wine was okay too. We had a very large party so I think we got looked after.

The worst was actually at a fairly fancy restaurant in South Beach. Service was slow and inattentive. My mother got food poisoning, and the waiter didn't bother to validate my credit card properly. We had a party of eight on that occasion.

Unfortunately my mother did not 'bushu suru' on the waiter, which would have been a nice way to round off the evening.

I like Olive Garden actually. We always had good service. When GC was in the Twos and Truly "Going Genghis" we would get into one of the round booths with SWMBO'd on one end and me on the other and she would would ping pong and make a gigantic mess. They were always very helpful. We always started the dinner though with "we're messy but we tip very well."
SWMBO worked in food service and we both believe everyone should work there or retail. It really reflects character to see how a person treats wait staff.

EDIT: Here's a dating tip you youngins. When you go on a date see how the other person acts with waitstaff, even at a fast food place. Are they friendly? Are they cold? Are they somewhat pompous? Usually its an indicator of their real personality.

I should make it clear we all liked Olive Garden and disliked the other place, which wasn't Olive Garden but I can't remember the name. It was on Ocean Drive among the art deco hotels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In my experience service quality isn't anything necessarily to do with the 'classiness' or expense of the restaurant. It's to do with the attitude and training of the staff.

I've had some terrible meals in supposedly tip-top places, and been fussed over delightfully in the equivalent of a sit-down sandwich bar.

BTW anyone visiting London who wants to experience a different class of service entirely should eat at Wong Kei's in Chinatown.