1500 pt. Thousand Sons CSM army

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**codemonkey**

Ok, before anyone says anything, yes, i know 1k sons are considered to be the worst CSM list. However, this army is intended to be semi-tournament competative at best, and is not pure sons. Comments/criticism are extremely appreciated

HQ:

Daemon Prince
-MoT
-Wings
-Warptime
-WoC

205 pts.

Troops:

3x1 Aspiring Sorcerer+8 1K Sons
-2 w/ WoC, 1 w/ Doombolt
-Personal Icon
-Chaos Rhino

922 pts.

Heavy Support:

2x2 Obliterators
Chaos Predator

370 pts.

Total: 1497 pts.

**Vindicator#9**

I basically run the same list with my 1k sons minus the heavies. I typically run dual vindicators or defilers. Also are you running a basic pred.? Last for bigger lists like 1850 or more i either throw in regular CSMs or Chosen for their versatility and they cover up the gaping hole in 1k sons that is AT.

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Welcome BTW!

**codemonkey**

Thanks for the advice and the welcome. The pred is basic, purely bc i ran out of pts. The goal of the obliterators is to provide more versatile fire support than tanks, but they do have their own drawbacks. I was thinking about dropping one of the obliterator squads and taking another predator, then using the remaining points to bulk up the two preds. Better?

**Nighteyez**

I played with a pure 2k thousand sons army with ahriman leading it and that went alright consisted of 5 squads of 10 and 2 land raiders

**Vindicator#9**

Yes i think it will fit better and alot better chance than two squads of oblits because your opponent will know all he has to do is get rid of those oblits and you dont have much range anymore. At least with the pred. you stand a little better chance of not being shot to pieces by bolter fire and dying unless they are able to get at your rear armour. I have used oblits many times and had them taken out by large amounts of small rounds fire and that can get extrmely aggravating. I figure this way they will focus on the preds. more and you can pop tanks with oblits.

**Zid**

you'll have an extremely hard time vs AV 14. I suggest dropping the pred and reworking some stuff for a unit of chaos terminators, MoT, Chainfist, and 4 combi-meltas. This will give you an assaulty unit that can blow up vehicles and tie up nuisance units. This lists greatest weakness is assault-oriented armys.

Take off Winds of Chaos! Its sooooo expensive and highly unreliable... get doombolt on the prince (rerolling hits and wounds with AP 3 bolter shots is pretty awesome) and Bolt of Change on your two non-bolt sorcs. Yeah, its POSSIBLE to get an awesome roll and kill that hive tyrant right off, but if you don't... say goodbye to a 300 point squad! I don't like putting that many points on the line with 1 dice roll!

**Sanctjud**

Dp is ok.
Dust Buckets look ok.
Oblits are ok.
The pred seems a waste.

/shrug, it seems like a standard cult list.

Though, if it’s not pure, I suggest getting a CSM squad with double meltas+rhino in there for support.

Otherwise, it’s still an uphill climb, you will still have issues with Hordes, as only 3 winds are decent but not enough.
Nor is combat something they like, and you have only 1 counter attacker (DP).

Wind is nice to have to mitigate their prime enemy (cover saves).

So essentially, this is not a forgiving list (which is not the case for prob. any other infantry body list). Judging ranges will be critical and knowing when to commit to <12” or >12”.

Good Luck, and my Nurgle watch over you and embrace you when you are ready to convert

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@Zid:
Well, having issues with armor is essentially the definition of Thousand Sons.
Chaos Terminators get ICONS of Tzeentch. But yea, that combo helps out in anti-tank.

I find the Dust Bucket list has many weaknesses, not just vs. assault-oriented armies.
Armies that have mass small arms and the ability to crack transports is enough to give them headaches. (IE gunlines).

Basically any extremes of shooting and combat will generally wreck a list like this…(mech or not funny enough).
It’s the middle ground, poorly managed cover save armies that they ‘break even’ against.

I disagree with you on your second paragraph.
Wind (as I said) mitigates one of the huge weaknesses of the inferno bolts.
Which means wind gets more usage as opponents get smart stick to cover.
I wouldn’t call 50/50 ‘highly’ unreliable.

Doom bolt on a prince is a waste.

Bolt of Change is weak choice for the TS sorc.
To shoot it, it means they are exposed outside of the rhino asking for small arms, or in a rhino, but making it only move 6”.
The BoC supplements the squad, but they are so specialized already, it’s almost criminal.
In addition the added ‘to hit’ roll as opposed to just hitting is undesirable.

**Vindicator#9**

I agree WoC is worth it. It has saved my butt numerous times. @ Sanctjud so do you think all oblits would be better than 2 preds. with twin linked las. and bolter sponsons? I just find when playing TS they tend to focus all fire on them until they are gone. Unlike when playing plagues and oblits they spread the fire around.

**Sanctjud**

Well, here's my theory.

TS don't do well vs. hordes and armor.
The TLLC/HB pred covers both issues.

The problem: it doesn't do both at the same time, so there is a high oppurtunity cost there.

________________

Oblits fit into alot of lists. Though if you really want to stick with preds I suggest the AC/LC pred for the transport busting aspect (though i don't personally like preds of all kinds).

**Vindicator#9**

I know that is why now i have learned defilers and vindicators cover those gaps slightly then i include either Reg. CSMs and/or chosen to cover the gaps a little more now granted 1k sons arent versatile but they can hold their own as long as they knock down the number of the squad first.

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BTW not a fan of preds. either.

**codemonkey**

Thanks 4 the advice all. Im on vacation for thannksgiving right now and don't have access to the books, but once i get back ill post a revised list.

**codemonkey**

Ok, here is my revised list:

HQ same as original

Troops: all AS have WoC

Heavy Support:

3 Obliterators
Chaos Predator
-TLLC
-HB sponsons

total pts: 1507

I wanted to keep the number of oblits up for more versatile firepower, while making the pred powerful enough to take out vehicles and damage hordes.

P.S.

>

**ZacktheChaosChild**

Cool list, and don't listen to people who say that TS suck, they most likely have never played with them. Any army can be bad if you don't play them right. A know a guy that owns up TOURNAMENTS with TS.

TS aren't great against hordes but the predator makes up for that. Looks pretty solid at the least.

**Karon**

The Thousand Suns, the bane of SMurfs.

**Sanctjud**

@ZacktheChaosChild:
Playing them right is very hard as their ability to deal damage is limited to a single specific target. (IE: MEQs out of cover).

Anything else used just on average could produce the same results if the TS had to engage even a tiny less than ideal circumstances.

One 'can' 'own' with any list... like my Crap Legion with lots of spawn and possessed with zerkers on shooting duty...but that doesn't say a whole lot.
What is the list, what elements were strained or picking up the slack...etc.

In addition, a pred helps only a little bit against hordes... 8 shots is really not much esp. if they don't ignore cover.
The AC/LC pred is prob. the most efficient build for anti-transports...while the Dakka pred that chaos gets is a bit over costed for what you get, and is essentially a 'clean up' unit, focusing on taking out mauled squads already and not exactly horde control.

@Karon:
Thousand SONS, unless you are talking about some other DIY legion/renegades with "Suns" as the last part.

In addition, str 4, needing to approach close, abundance of cover saves, all make it so that they are more of an annoyance to MEQ's than a real bane.
The only time they start sweating is if WoC is around, and only if they are bunched up real tight.

**codemonkey**

so, besides using an AC/LC pred, which im considering, is there anything else i could do to improve this list?

**orkyboss30000**

go slannesh in torneys....

**codemonkey**

orkyboss30000 wrote:go slannesh in torneys....

> <
___

any other suggestions?

**Sanctjud**

Beware of Lash of the Pedobear.
________

On the serious side of things.
Maybe exchange one TS squad for a CSM squad with meltas.
They support the Thousand Sons very well.