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Hey there! i have a huge CSM force and i have gotten kinda bored with it and i was thinking of starting a Chaos Deamons army. Let me know what you think of the list!

HQ:
MOT herald on Chariot With Master of sorcery, We are Legion, and BOT 110

MOT herald on Chariot With Master of Sorcery and Soul Devourer 85

Elites:
2x5 Fiends 150 Each
3 flamers 150

Troops:
2x10 Plague Bearers with Noxious Touch, Icon, and Insturment 190 each

10 Bloodletters 160

Heavy Support:
DP with MOK, Flight, Iron Hide 185
DP with MON, Iron Hide, Breath of Chaos 170


total: 1495


Advice? i was thinking of upping the Troops to 3x7 or 4x5 PB's and giving two of them icons still. Ideas?

Both princes should have wings. The Nurgle prince should have noxious touch and Cloud of Flies as well. You could subtract a few PBs to beef up the prince. You'll also be wanting one icon for each wave, two is enough.

G

well im going by WYSIWYG and i onyl havee one winged prince, one is Bel'Akor and the other is the CSM deamon prince... I thought of noxious touch but i dont find thee to be very affective esp because of how pricy a DP can be. In my CSM force i rely heavily on troops and i dont often loose so why loose plague bearers? those are the hold ground tough squads that i need! maybe leave a few upgrades out? I'm also paraoid of squads with an icon dying easy from enemy fire.

why give your second herald master of sorcery? only has 1 ranged attack. and you cant use the same one twice.
i would swap second herald for herlad of Slaanesh or Khorne on chariot.
too many plaguebearers without epidimius makes you weak.
i use 2 squads of 5 with icons and they rarely die.(not because they hard to kill, it because my enemy normally got bigger problems.)and if they do i normally do fine without the icons.
get ur fiend squads to 6 with unholy might.
A nice DP build i like is : IH, MoS, Aura of acquiescence

Noxious touch is only 10 points. A daemon prince is S5 so wounding on 2 against T versus 3 can add up. If you are fighting another monsterous creature it's obviously huge.

G

Good points, so maybe a winged nurgle n noxious touch then a foot slogging slanessi?

I agree with the noxious touch on the nurgle DP. Also, your 3 flamers are only 105, not 150, but I think you used 105 in your math for the list. I also like the bigger troop squads as opposed to 4x5, but haven't tried them the other way, so if you do, I'd like to hear how it worked. For me, a bigger squad works so that I can spread them out and drop bloodletters in behind them. Bloodletters then get 4+ cover instead of 5+ and are there to countercharge after plaguebearers absorb the brunt of it.

That's what I figured, plague bearers on objective or in a live giving my bloodletters and /or fiends a chance to feth gak up.

Idk for some reason or another I think if I fought my csm army with this list I would loose, maybe it is a good idea to take apedimus as the second herald and add a greater deamon for 2k lists? Maybe fateweave or an unclean one?

Im not a Daemon player and dont know what upgrades and the like they have but I often play against a very good daemon player.
I think the Keeper of Secrets is very good as is Skulltaker on Chariot for solid HQs.
You seem anti tank light save the Princes so maybe take Screamers and/or drop a prince for a Soul Grinder with the S7 AP3 one. Its less points than a prince and well worth the points.
Last point - Shooty units are useful as you are deep striking so a couple 5 man horror units are quite good with S4 AP5 3 shots and they can hold objectives too, but never let them get into combat.

Horrors aren't bad i just don't have the models. Getting a soul grinder would work but i would have to proxy me defiler for a while.... or i can use GS to mutate the hull and body a little bit, you think that would be legal? oh and flamers can only be in squads of 1 to 3

I think Skulltaker on a juggernaught joined with a squad of Crushers is the way to go if you want to field a Khorne herald. The KoS is a better HQ choice than Skulltaker if you are solely comparing the two against each other.

To me Bloodletters are a better troop choice than Plague Bearers if you are willing to put the points into large squads. Five Plague Bearers camped out on an objective gone to ground in cover is hard to beat pointwise for holding an objective. It really depends on what you want to do with your army. You can play aggressive or conservative with a large squad of Bloodletters while Plague Bearers are a conservative choice unless you take the Tallyman.

G

well i want to play them similar to how i play my CSM, PM's runign to objectives and tying up combats while my zerkers basically F gak up....

I want to playa healthy mix of both but I also am a college student with not enough $$ to have a squad of crushers on hand (as cool as they look) and i'm converting most of my army but i need a goood second hq

nobody?

Anyone else with a Cohesive thought?

Spread your plaguebearers to fill every TROOP slot.

You have 20 models? So split them into 4 groups with 5 each.

Need to remind that they are different with plaguemarines. They have no expensive weapon like fists or plasmaguns, so lost the whole squad is not that painful. More small squads would hold objectives better.

hmm good point, but in ahnillilation small squads of Plaguebearers can get decimated, they only seem to be decent against something with high toughness and low initiative, Carnefexes?

You need not to thought about the damage output of the plaguebearers. Their only task is to absorb fire.

Bearers(and herald, or any other tough guys) tied enemy into combat. Then fiends(and bloodletters) join the combat and crush your enemy, in the next turn.

The order of throwing units in combat need to be noticed.

And KP missions? Your DPs and letters are transprently easier KPs and more dangerous targets, why your enemies foucus on plaguebearers? If so, you win.

true, how about the rest of the list, any good?

Iron I dont play demons very often but my opinion at 60 points a piece flight just too much for a unit that deepstrikes anyway

Are you talking about the DP?

IronfrontAlex wrote:
HQ:
MOT herald on Chariot With Master of sorcery, We are Legion, and BOT 110

MOT herald on Chariot With Master of Sorcery and Soul Devourer 85

Elites:
2x5 Fiends 150 Each
3 flamers 150

Troops:
2x10 Plague Bearers with Noxious Touch, Icon, and Insturment 190 each

10 Bloodletters 160

Heavy Support:
DP with MOK, Flight, Iron Hide 185
DP with MON, Iron Hide, Breath of Chaos 170


total: 1495


Advice? i was thinking of upping the Troops to 3x7 or 4x5 PB's and giving two of them icons still. Ideas?

Ok heres ideas;

Split the Plaguebearers into 4 units of 5. Give 1 guy in 2 units (primary wave, secondary wave) an icon. Letters are great, but you need a squad of like... 15 or so to survive shooting. Your points on flamers is off, its 35 pts a model (so 105 for 3). Fiends are ok, give one Unholy Might tho. Soul devourer seems wasted on the herald, if he gets into CC hes screwed. Period. Low T, low WS, very few attacks, and low S all add for a bad melee unit. Give him something ranged, like BOT for popping tanks. The Nurgle DP NEEDS either Unholy Might or Noxious Touch. Touch for anti-infantry, which you don't seem to lack, or might to pop rhinos and things. Breath is OK on him, but seeing as most people charge into him and I never get to shoot with em I quit running it lol. Khorne DP's, quite franky, suck. They attack a lot, but they die easily compared to other princes and don't have bad ass stuff (like more invun, or T, or initiative). I suggest making him a Slaneesh DP if your going for WYSIWYG, cuz bel sort of could be one lol. Give em wings, unholy might, aura, and pavane if you have the points!

Hope this helps and GL!

yes... I mean the demon princes.

Herald is not a good shooting unit. No blast, no 2D6 penetration, no many shooting times...

But he is a good melee unit, under many situations.

Yes, MELEE unit. Althrough he can hardly win any combat.

He has W5 and 4+isv. Which means the enemy need about to wound him 10 times to beat down him. Equal to about 15~20 attacks(considered no-retreat wounds).

What will happen, if the enemy unit has no 15 attacks?

The herald is a jetbike. He can pick a target and charge it from a long distance away. See whether there is a solo guy in your enemie's list. Like a fzorgle DP, a dread, a flyrant...etc.

Tie the expensive guy with your herald.Then it will be kicked out from the whole game——by a (65~100)pts costed unit.

Unless your enemy put in another unit into the combat to pull his expensive guy back to the game. But your "real" melee units(like fiends) would also do something, wouldn't they?

Good points everyone.


So what im getting is that my 110 point herald seems to be a good tactical choice, but i dont have the points to add another decent HQ, any other nice herals builds? doesn't need to be MOT, maybe a MON? MOK?

herald of slaanesh in a chariot has many attacks, high initiative, hits from a long way away. low toughness but thats slaanesh. there's a guy in our area who runs a pretty solid all slaanesh list, no big monsters so no good lascannon targets. with all the concentration on plasma and meltaguns most armies dont have enough bolters to kill them in time.

I think you should definitely run fateweaver. he's really...really...really... strong.

Really how so?

I realize this going back back a ways in the discussion, but...

You don't have to model wings to give a DP flight; it says so specifically in the description. However, flight is obviously very expensive. I use it for the explicit purpose of having the DP take down tanks in CC, and I give him unholy might... otherwise, to me, it's not worth the points. You could, instead, have a DP without wings, with MoT, and with Bolt... he'd be cheaper, but less versatile.

I think you're a little low on anti-tank, which is not uncommon in daemon lists.

That said, I assume you've probably used some version of this army since you posted this. I'm curious; how did it go?

I haven't used it before, I don't even have a full army. I only have the codex and a couple models but im a 12 year chaos space marine vet and those dp builds are closest to my DP's in my chaos army, tho I usually put out 2 winged warptime nurgle princes, they shred heavy infantry and tanks alike.

GloryToThe16th wrote:Iron I dont play demons very often but my opinion at 60 points a piece flight just too much for a unit that deepstrikes anyway

I guarantee that there will be ATLEAST 2 times during a game that you regret not having wings on your daemon princes. They can't assault when you deepstrike anyhow. Placing them safely and getting into combat a.s.a.p. is their primary job. If you sacrafice the ability to do that job to its highest potential then I wouldn't even bother fielding them.

well sub my 1st take on demon princes is just that... wouldnt bother taking them.