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Just a quick question: Are you allowed to move within 1 inch of an enemy unit as long as you don't end your movement within 1 inch of the unit? Let's say a chimera is blocking the path between two impassable terrain pieces. The gap on one side of the chimera is 1.5 inches wide, so your troops can fit through but they will have to pass within 1 inch of the chimera. Can it be done as long as they don't end their movement within 1 inch of the chimera?

Follow up question, if no moving within 1 inch of any enemy model is allowed: Let's say a unit assaults one of your tanks, but does no damage to it. In your turn, there will be models in base to base with the tank, so if the tank moves in any direction the first inch of movement will be movement within 1 inch of an enemy model. Does this mean the tank can't move at all, because it will be moving within 1 inch of an enemy model if it does so? Let's say you can't tank shock away because the enemy unit multi-assaulted the tank and an infantry squad, and are still locked in combat with the squad.

Im not really sure on the first one. Id imagine in a situation like that, if it were your tank, you could treat as difficult terrain and roll to see how far your squad moves. But again I could be wrong on that one.

As for the second, I cant possibly see a way to completely block off a tank with enemy units. A tank can just tank shock away if it had too. Simply because even when assaulted, a vehicle is never in CC and can move freely.

The first one is covered by "a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting".
It does not say "end its move within".

The second one is interesting, but I would say that it must move out the 1" if it moves, for a similar reason -- it does not say 'may not move if within 1"'. But I shall read more!

For the first one, I believe you can make said move as long as you can set unit down and be more than 1 inch from the chimera, if he's siting 1 inch and 30mm from a solid wall, that isn't enough to have your unit an inch away so you can't make the move.

The reason for the rule as far as I understand is so you can't be a dick and run through squads of guys to get to the juicy HW teams and such. A big part of a few armies strategies is blocking your movement with vehicles or troops. so you shouldn't be able to move, however at my FLGS its usually because the terrain isn't quite level and men can't quite stand upright on it not because the men are trying to be blocked, in this case we'll usually put the men within 1" of the tank and make a note they are actually on this hill that they cannot balance on.

For the second one, all it does is force you to tank shock the infantry to drive through them, infantry themselves can't stop a non-dreadnought from moving.

The answr to the first question is found on page 11 BRB in the last sentence under 'MODELS IN THE WAY'; "...a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting."

The second is a little tricky. First, the rules say that vehicles are not locked in combat and in successive turns, the vehicle and the enemy units are free to simply move away. Granted the movement rule says you must stay 1" away, but you are starting in base contact so you must start your move within 1" of the enemy. In fact, just by moving away, the first inch you are moving is within 1" of the enemy unit, so the vehicle rule would allow this movement.

Further, if there are enemy models in base contact with a vehicle, and it chooses to pivot, you can move the models out of the way, pivot the vehicle, and place the models back in base contact with the vehicle. so clearly moving a vehicle out of close combat is an exception to the rule.

If you move a vehicle that started with enemy models in base contact, and at the end of the move there were still enemy models from the same unit in base contact, I think the move would be allowed, and the enemy unit would be allowed to either move away from the vehicle in their movement phase, or to assault the vehicle again in their assault phase.

Though TBH, there is nothing concrete in the rules to back up my thoughts on your second question. I would play it the way I described it though.

jcage wrote:Just a quick question: Are you allowed to move within 1 inch of an enemy unit as long as you don't end your movement within 1 inch of the unit? Let's say a chimera is blocking the path between two impassable terrain pieces. The gap on one side of the chimera is 1.5 inches wide, so your troops can fit through but they will have to pass within 1 inch of the chimera. Can it be done as long as they don't end their movement within 1 inch of the chimera?

Follow up question, if no moving within 1 inch of any enemy model is allowed: Let's say a unit assaults one of your tanks, but does no damage to it. In your turn, there will be models in base to base with the tank, so if the tank moves in any direction the first inch of movement will be movement within 1 inch of an enemy model. Does this mean the tank can't move at all, because it will be moving within 1 inch of an enemy model if it does so? Let's say you can't tank shock away because the enemy unit multi-assaulted the tank and an infantry squad, and are still locked in combat with the squad.

lol did this come up in a vassal game? Just saw this exact situation a few days ago lol...

I agree with the above:

#1 is clear, they can't move within 1" of the enemy units, so they can't walk through that gap.

#2 I would say that since a tank can "tank shock" an enemy unit, that makes it easy- the 1" rule does not apply, since it can move through that unit (or run them over) anyway. There may be a slight hole in the wording of the rules, but I don't see any justification at all for saying that the tank cannot move (or tank shock).

It states they're 'free to move away' so must be free to move away.

The first one is easy, not within 1" at any time. So you need a 3" gap between enemy models for a 1" base to pass through.

The second one is covered by the tank and infantry free to move away exception to the 1" rule. And Tank Shock.

kirsanth wrote:The first one is covered by "a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting".
It does not say "end its move within".

The second one is interesting, but I would say that it must move out the 1" if it moves, for a similar reason -- it does not say 'may not move if within 1"'. But I shall read more!

I interpret "move" as "ending the move." This is because in moving units there is a maximum distance to move. it is not as if you lay a tape-measurer down and follow a 6" curving path around other units. In other word unit are never actually moving past, near, or by anything. Instead imagine a circle surrounding each unit with a radius of [the distance of the unit's movement] and the unit may now end their movement anywhere within that circle.

Was that in any way intelligible?

JohnHwangDD wrote:The first one is easy, not within 1" at any time. So you need a 3" gap between enemy models for a 1" base to pass through.

The second one is covered by the tank and infantry free to move away exception to the 1" rule. And Tank Shock.

So I could move 1/4" away and call it good?

I believe the BRB states that you must end your movement phase atleast 1" away, nothing about moving within an inch.
I'd prolly just kill the Chimera though

No, it's simply that you cannot move within 1" of enemy models. Any part of a model's movement must be at least 1" away from enemy models. Supporting this is that the movement rules forbid you from moving through gaps between friendly models which are smaller than your base. Enemy models don't get a mention because you can't move within an inch of enemy models, and the coherency distance of units makes any gap too small to stay 1" away.

The exception would be enemy squadrons, where coherency distance is 4".

In the assault phase, where there is no 1" restriction, the rule about moving through gaps specifies both enemy and friendly models.

Deuce11 wrote:
I interpret "move" as "ending the move." This is because in moving units there is a maximum distance to move. it is not as if you lay a tape-measurer down and follow a 6" curving path around other units. In other word unit are never actually moving past, near, or by anything. Instead imagine a circle surrounding each unit with a radius of [the distance of the unit's movement] and the unit may now end their movement anywhere within that circle.

Was that in any way intelligible?

But you interpretation is not supported by the rules. You do not get to 'teleport' up to 6" away, you get to *move* that far. Yes it means you have to go around enemy units, or buildings, or even friendly models. There needs to be at least 1" of space to fit between friendly models, and at least 3" to fit between enemy units.

Deuce11 wrote:it is not as if you lay a tape-measurer down and follow a 6" curving path around other units.

Thats exactly how it is.

And yeah I'd say you can't move within 1" even if you'd end your move outside 1", but I also think you can drive away from the guys who assaulted you without needing to tank shock.

situation 1: you cannot move within 1" at any time, except in the assault phase.

situation 2: In order for the tank to move "through" enemy units it must tank shock, so you would declare that you are tank shocking, rotate the tank, declare how far you are moving, then move that distance, models under the tank at that point are moved the minimum distance to get away (this includes the 1" rule, so move them 1" away)

-If you want to you could declare a tank shock, not rotate the tank, declare that you are moving 0.0001 inches, and his models would have to move out of that 1" gap.

-If you have infantry models just outside your tank, and he assaults those infantry in such a way as to prevent your tank from moving, then you cannot move, as any move would require a tank shock, but you cannot tank shock into an existing combat.

coredump wrote:

Deuce11 wrote:
I interpret "move" as "ending the move." This is because in moving units there is a maximum distance to move. it is not as if you lay a tape-measurer down and follow a 6" curving path around other units. In other word unit are never actually moving past, near, or by anything. Instead imagine a circle surrounding each unit with a radius of [the distance of the unit's movement] and the unit may now end their movement anywhere within that circle.

Was that in any way intelligible?

But you interpretation is not supported by the rules. You do not get to 'teleport' up to 6" away, you get to *move* that far. Yes it means you have to go around enemy units, or buildings, or even friendly models. There needs to be at least 1" of space to fit between friendly models, and at least 3" to fit between enemy units.

Uhhhh that is the whole debate. So you just restating the opposing platform doesn't make it true.

However, i rethought my "tape-measurer comment and have to rescind it as it doesn't make any sense. Sorry!

Deuce, there's not much to debate. The rule is very clear, for once.
"a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model"

Doesn't say 'may not end it's move', it says "may not move within 1"". I don't see any wiggle room. If the model is moving, it may not move within 1" of an enemy model.

don_mondo wrote:Deuce, there's not much to debate. The rule is very clear, for once.
"a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model"

Doesn't say 'may not end it's move', it says "may not move within 1"". I don't see any wiggle room. If the model is moving, it may not move within 1" of an enemy model.

Does that count for blocking emergency disembarkation after a vehicle wreck? That doesn't necessarily occur during the movement phase but iirc it is counted as movement for all intents and purposes.

DoW

Thanks for the replies. This actually came up in a game I recently had; A tac squad multi assaulted a veteran squad and a russ that were close to each. No damage to the russ or the veteran squad was done. On my turn, I wasn't able to tank shock through the models because they were still locked in combat with the veteran squad (I wouldn't want to anyways, the guy with the multimelta was right in front of the tank and would have definitely death or gloried).

The question came up as to whether the tank would be able to move at all, as it would be moving within 1 inch of an enemy model for its first inch of movement. In the assaulting vehicles section of the BRB (sorry lent my BRB to a friend so can't quote) it basically says that a tank that chooses not to move after being assaulted can still pivot. This implies that tanks can choose to move after being assaulted, but it doesn't explicitly state that this is an exception to the no moving within 1 inch rule. It could also be talking about choosing to move by tank shock, which is a known exception to the no moving within 1 inch rule.

We eventually decided that the tank would be allowed to move, as if it wasn't he would have been able to attack it again in my turn, auto-hitting it and likely destroying it. His argument was that because the tank is obviously allowed to move in this situation, it must mean that the no moving within 1 inch rule means no ending your move within 1 inch instead. I too cannot see a clear rule that allows tanks to move away from models in b2b without tank shocking, unless that sentence in the assaulting vehicles section is enough?

DogOfWar wrote:Does that count for blocking emergency disembarkation after a vehicle wreck? That doesn't necessarily occur during the movement phase but iirc it is counted as movement for all intents and purposes.

There was a huge thread on that a few weeks ago. No conclusive answer was found.

DogOfWar wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Deuce, there's not much to debate. The rule is very clear, for once.
"a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model"

Doesn't say 'may not end it's move', it says "may not move within 1"". I don't see any wiggle room. If the model is moving, it may not move within 1" of an enemy model.

Does that count for blocking emergency disembarkation after a vehicle wreck? That doesn't necessarily occur during the movement phase but iirc it is counted as movement for all intents and purposes.

DoW

Yes, it does. In fact, it's specifically mentioned in the disembarkation rules on page 67:
"Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy." Phase is irrelevant. Note also that the wrecked results mentions passengers unable to disembark are destroyed.................

What MSP is talking about is a different subject, must disembark (drop pod) vs cannot disembark (can't be placed within 1"), what happens? That has no bearing on disembarking from a wrecked vehicle. Altho most of us would probably apply the wrecked rules to the situation, as it is the only one that comes close.

Makes sense to me. Thanks!

DoW

I agree with Kirsanth. But I would play the second by, "you have to move it outside the 1"

Moving around/through enemy units. Anyone who plays a race that depends on distance/staying away from you learns very quickly in the rule book.... 2'' coherency for making screens, and that enemy units must go AROUND your units giving a minimum of a 1'' berth for it to be a legal move, or to pass between must also give a 1'' berth to units to either side, so if there is a 3'' gap and your moving a 1'' base model, you are funneled down limiting your movement, or you must assault said units to get past them.

The units w/in base contact, if you make a wall of tanks w/ 2 1/2'' inches between them, you can assault the tank, next turn if said tank hasn't moved you can then move the units already in base contact with the tank towards the units behind the tank wall (since they are not locked in CC with vehicles), but in doing this may not come in 1'' of any other model w/o assaulting it.

hope the example helps.. and i dont have my rule book infront of me to give the page reference to the first, but it is in there, and it does state may not move within 1'' w/o assaulting. its nothing in regards to where you end your movement. Also, if your going around you do indeed bend the tape and ensure that this path does not bring you AT ANY POINT within 1'' of a enemy model.

@ OP - since there isn't really a debate on the first (though most casual games you see it frequently) I won't post on that.

the 2nd situation is hairy, at best. I am not certain there is a definitive answer. However, I would permit the move to happen, as long as he doesn't 'end movement'. (But again, that is me being the nice guy. I am sure others would say 'Burn Heretic')

Here is a question (may seem off topic, but it follows the example above) say the unit assaults the enemy and the vehicle. Nothing happens to the vehicle. Is the single unit 'locked in combat' with the vehicle? OR would their 'pile in' move pull them into the brawl with the enemy...

You are never Locked with a non-walker vehicle. So the models would pile into contact, or into 2", with the other models if possible.

Related:

can units with jump packs, wings, jetpacks, whatever move "over" enemy units or do they carry poolskimmers to prevent this?

We include the vertical movement (welcome to 3d!), which is rather easy as most tape measures bend.

I know some folks are stuck in a (somewhat arbitrary) 2d mode and cannot be bothered with the rules as such, however.

Grundz wrote:can units with jump packs, wings, jetpacks, whatever move "over" enemy units or do they carry poolskimmers to prevent this?

Jump Infantry can move over other models. Covered in the Jump Infantry Movement rules in the rulebook.