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I've been throwing this list around on paper and in my head for a long while now, and finally decided to refine it a bit, and post it on relicnews, aswell as the DakDak.

My main objective in creating this list was a solid core of heretical traitor guardsmen, representing the endless wave of the Lost and the Damned. I have many ideas of making these guys even more "chaosy"

In general, I am planning on using Steel Legion models as my guardsmen, since they are very morbid looking, aswell with a Death Korps of Krieg paint style. And I am thinking of the backstory being that this regiment is one of the Traitor Krieg regiments during the old times.

List ^.^

HQ:70
Company Command Squad
- Vox
- x3 Grenade Launchers

My strat on these guys is to park them behind my blob of heretics, and give orders such as FRFSRF and bring it down, things like that, aswell as provide fire support for hordes and MEQ w/ the krak 'nades.

Troops:730
x2 Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad
- x4 Grenade Launchers
Standard Fire Support, I simply love my G.L's

x3 Infantry Squad
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- ONE SQUAD has Krak Nades (Pesky Armor 11-12 things)
- ONE SQUAD's Sarg has melta bombs

x1 Infantry Squad
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- Vox
- Commissar


Oh and by the way, the I.P's will be in blobs of 40, all combined.

Strategy for these traitors is to just march them forward on the board, basically just forming a crushing wave, and as soon as I am within 24" or so, I will stop, and unleash the fury of the chaos gods upon those who dare challenge the real people of Krieg.

Of course, I may keep them in a relatively static role in games, particularly when I am against lots of trukks/rhino's 'nd gak, to rock them with the autocannons, which should be able to do something, through sheer volume of fire.

Heavy Support:700

x2 Manticores

I particularly just love manticores, they can really cause terrible terrible damage upon hordes, MEQ, and tanks alike.

x2 Leman Russ Battle Tank
- Plasma Sponsons
- Hull H.B

I do realize that 3 weapons on a L.Russ is generally frowned upon, just since you can keep mobile, and fire two weapons every turn, but I know I won't always be moving the russ's, so I want to take the sponsons.

I need C&C on this list, I am tired of procrastinating on lists, and really just want to get painting again.

Thanks in advance, mates.

Traitor guard... mmm so sexy. They honestly need to make a TG codex, and allow for Chaos allies (demons or CSM)... that would be bad ass. Be my new favorite army to be sure!

Anyways, I like the list! I haven't played too much guard so i can't critique that well...

-Vox on CCS does nothing if the receiving squad doesn't also have on: drop it and the single squad's
-Upgrade CCS' GLs to PGs or Meltas
-Put the Manticores in a single squadron then have 1 LRMBT with Hull HB, HB Sponsons and Heavy Stubber and then a Demolisher with Hull HF and Dozer. Also gives you some extra points.
-Drop the Commissar

Other than that =) it's good. Solid infantry squads with good special/heavy weapon choices.
(BTW never give a Leman Russ a Lascannon-waste of time; go Hull HB with HB Sponsons-as stated)

Only a single squad needs the vox 'cause he's blobbing the two platoons every time (40 man with commie/vox).

I wouldn't say an LC on a LRBT is a 'waste of time'. Especially on this list, where he has no long-range anti-tank, other than the LRBT's and the mants. This way the LC will back up the battle cannon vs. vehicles. I would go with the PC sponsons one, to make it much meaner to vehics and inf alike.

In general I think if you're going to go with HB sponsons then a hull HB works best with them. It's good to keep all the weapons similar when possible. A LRBT with triple HB's is a nice anti-inf platform.

Colonel: Its not a good idea to comment on something you don't know about.

1. Manticores can't go in squadrons.

2. They are all blobbed if you bothered to read anything, mate, so one vox is enough.

3. My CCS doesn't have a chimera, aswell, I don't want to spend 45 points on 3 PG's on a paper weak squad. I'm relying on the weight of fire of my lasguns to kill everything my LR's, Manticoress, Autocannons, G.L's don't kill.

4. Commissar's is needed to keep my blob's of 40 guardsmen together, if they were to ever run off the table, it would basically be the end of the game.

5. Thanks for everyones help, so you guys prefer the LR w/ plasma sponsons? I do aswell ^.^

Looks good, though Manticores do not scare MEQ's with ap4. Might wound on 2+ but they still get their save. Colossus still wounds on a 2+ is ap3 and allows no cover saves if those pesky Space Marines dive into terrain. Also, its not limited ammo either.

I would take a hull mounted heavy flamer on the Russes. Ok a lascannon suits with the mediocre anti tank, but you'll find it hits just as much as it misses, and for 15 points you'll want something more reiable.

As for sponsons, plasma or nothing really. Though Executioners with plasma sponsons rule, but cost a lot. And, Demolishers are betters than normal Batlte Tanks as they can crack armour 14 and other armour better and flatten terminators - B.T's cannot :(

Rest is sound

I am very happy everyone is not saying I have to change too much, but I will say this.

1. You forget, that a colossus gets one shot, a manticore can get up to 3. Does a colossus really wound on a 2+ on MEQ? Its only S6. Limited ammo does not worry me, with the amount of destruction the two will cause, only 4 turns is fine.

2. HF is only 8-9", my russ will not be that close, and I won't let anything get that close. Lascannon, however, will hit sometimes, and something is going down when it does.

3. I agree with you on the plasma, I do love me my plasma afterall.

4. Demolishers are 24", and thats really close to all weapons, including MM's. I don't like Demolishers unless its cityfight or some such, or I have ALOT of armor, which I don't. With plasma sponsons, I'm sure any meganobs or terminators won't be a problem to my russ(s).

I thank everyone for their critique and help, I am thinking of dropping a manticore for a demolisher or something.

Thanks so much.

Edit: Btw, I love your blog, mercer.

colonel584 wrote:-Vox on CCS does nothing if the receiving squad doesn't also have on: drop it and the single squad's

...they can still use it on themselves, though!

Ah, I was hoping you would pop into this thread, renegade, do you have an critique on a fellow Traitor Guard force?

r3n3g8b0y wrote:

colonel584 wrote:-Vox on CCS does nothing if the receiving squad doesn't also have on: drop it and the single squad's

...they can still use it on themselves, though!

Actually, as per the FAQ, they cannot.

It seems like a good list to me (definitely would be fun to go against with my Loyalist Guard). Go with the plasma sponsons Russes, but give them a hull HB.

That frees up 30 points. Since infantry is an important part of your army I'm going to (believe it or not) recommend for the first and probably last time that you take camo cloaks for your CCS. A 3+ cover save is reasonably difficult to take down (assuming they'll be taking cover inside your Guardsmen squads) and you need that Vox operational. I'm not all too sure what you'd do with the 10 leftover points though. Perhaps give one squad of Guardsmen in the platoon you'll deploy closer to the enemy krak grenades? It's not nice to have your 300 point supersquad tied up by a single Dreadnought/Armored Sentinel; at least they'll have a chance to fight back with the grenades.

I appreciate pointing out that major flaw in my list Makr, though I don't think camo cloaks are worth it.

If my CCS goes down, my IP's can always order orders to eachother (LOL)

I've always thought of the FRFSRF order to go out something like this.

"Hey, SHOOT THEM MORE THAN LAST TIME"

"K, but why don't we just always shoot them more than usual?"

*Commissar shoots him the in head* "Heresy."

Lol

Back on topic, what I have done, as you can see in the list, is dropped the lascannons, though with more than a bit of convincing myself to do it.

And added krak nades to one squad in each platoon, and then added melta bombs to another squad in each platoon.

Walkers beware, for my sarg will have a kunnin' orange orb on his armor.

I believe I have eliminated all outstanding flaws in my list, atleast beyond personal preference.

Thanks again everyone.

Nice list Karon. Protect the pieplates by throwing 80 ld10 men in their face.

You said it about those blobs though. If you lose them, it might be gg, cause the PCS's don't last long if someone wants to kill them, in my experience. Although I'm still forgeting about the order I! in my games, and that can help them stay alive.

But you probably won't lose the blobs, so it doesn't really matter. They will be trying to take out your pieplates.

Did I miss the part how all of them are LD10? Could you clarify?

And your right, most likely I won't, not with the commissars in there.

Thanks for everyone's help once again, now to just buy all the models....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What does everyone think of replacing two AC's per platoon w/ two HB's?

Would give me more horde-clearing power, and still have reliable anti-transport power.

Up to you guys.

Sorry I meant ld9. Still gettin used to the new codex i guess...

I'm starting to tire of my HB's, and am thinking of swapping them for AC's lol. I'm finding they just aren't reliable for stopping trannies anymore, and AC's are the same price now. They are still good against hordes tho.

Sorry I meant ld9. Still gettin used to the new codex i guess...

I'm starting to tire of my HB's, and am thinking of swapping them for AC's lol. I'm finding they just aren't reliable for stopping trannies anymore, and AC's are the same price now. They are still good against hordes tho.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Holy double post, batman.

Karon wrote:I am very happy everyone is not saying I have to change too much, but I will say this.

1. You forget, that a colossus gets one shot, a manticore can get up to 3. Does a colossus really wound on a 2+ on MEQ? Its only S6. Limited ammo does not worry me, with the amount of destruction the two will cause, only 4 turns is fine.

2. HF is only 8-9", my russ will not be that close, and I won't let anything get that close. Lascannon, however, will hit sometimes, and something is going down when it does.

3. I agree with you on the plasma, I do love me my plasma afterall.

4. Demolishers are 24", and thats really close to all weapons, including MM's. I don't like Demolishers unless its cityfight or some such, or I have ALOT of armor, which I don't. With plasma sponsons, I'm sure any meganobs or terminators won't be a problem to my russ(s).

I thank everyone for their critique and help, I am thinking of dropping a manticore for a demolisher or something.

Thanks so much.

Edit: Btw, I love your blog, mercer.

1. Yes, a Colossus wounds T4 on a 2+. It allows no cover and is ap3. Its better than a Manticore. Manticore is really for anti vehicle being S10, Colossus anti troop. I would give it a try, but you do have enough anti vehicle.

2. I agree on the range and lascannon gives you another tank popping weapon. But a heavy flamer against troops in terrain is the win!

4. Demolishers rule, even if short range. S10 AP2 wrecks terminators and power armour, normal Russ only does power armour over. Personaly I run one Russ and two Demolishers in my army. Remember, if your taking plasma sponsons then terminators or meganobz won't like you, but you kill them and you're losing the big blast template to fire at them, and if it does they won't be worried with a 2+ save.

Thanks, glad you like it. Be sure to check often as I post on my blog daily and leave some comments if you have anything to say!!

I've been throwing this list around on paper and in my head for a long while now, and finally decided to refine it a bit, and post it on relicnews, aswell as the DakDak.

My main objective in creating this list was a solid core of heretical traitor guardsmen, representing the endless wave of the Lost and the Damned. I have many ideas of making these guys even more "chaosy"

In general, I am planning on using Steel Legion models as my guardsmen, since they are very morbid looking, aswell with a Death Korps of Krieg paint style. And I am thinking of the backstory being that this regiment is one of the Traitor Krieg regiments during the old times.

List ^.^

HQ:80
Company Command Squad
- Vox
- x2 Grenade Launchers
- Regimental Standard

Troops:730
x2 Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad
- x3 Grenade Launchers
- Vox

x3 Infantry Squad
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- ONE SQUAD has Krak Nades (Pesky Armor 11-12 things)
- ONE SQUAD's Sarg has melta bombs

x1 Infantry Squad
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- Vox
- Commissar

Heavy Support:690

x1 Manticore

x2 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Squadron
- Hull H.B

x1 Leman Russ Executioner
- Plasma Sponsons
- Hull H.B.

Changes are that I dropped a manticore, dropped the plasma sponsons on the vanilla russ's, and added a executioner w/ plasma sponsons.

Dropped a GL on the CCS and added a regimental standard.

Tight Infantry Platoon, plenty of Heavy Support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Only 6 targets/rnd if you blob tho...

What does everyone think about dropping the manticore and the two vanilla russ's for two more executioners w/ plasma sponsons?

Good? Bad?

What about keep the manticore, drop the two vanilla russ's for another executioner, and get one armoured sentinal with a plasma cannon?

I've decided that really, theres too much for me to buy in my budget, so I need to cut costs somewhere.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would try to keep as many units as possible for your budget, so I'd go with your second option, (manti, exi, and senti).

HQ:80
Company Command Squad
- Vox
- x2 Grenade Launchers
- Regimental Standard

Troops:730
x2 Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad
- x3 Grenade Launchers
- Vox

x3 Infantry Squad
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- ONE SQUAD has Krak Nades (Pesky Armor 11-12 things)
- ONE SQUAD's Sarg has melta bombs

x1 Infantry Squad
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- Vox
- Commissar

Heavy Support:690
x2 Leman Russ Executioners
- Plasma Sponsons
- Pintle-mounted Heavy stubber

x1 Leman Russ Demolisher
- Plasma Cannon Sponsons
- Hull Heavy Bolter
- Pintle-mounted Heavy Stubber

I personally like the PC sponsons, they give the LRD some range and increase it's kill power against infantry (both which further justify the heavy stubber) and vehicles alike. Plus you don't have to think about those 10 pts lol. But then I think I'd want a HB in the hull, to give it alot of dakka at 36".

If you do go with the MM's, why not take a storm bolter on the pintle instead? A stronger weapon, and would be the same range as the cannon and sponsons. If you set it up like this, it'll be fairly close to the enemy, so HF in the hull makes sense to me in this case.

I think I'm going to have a field day against fast-assaulty type armies, I'll just sit in my DP for the first turn or two, firing off my autocannons, and once he gets within 36" range, he is going to get REALLY hard.

I was thinking plasma too.

That many blasts it going to hurt any army I face.

Don't put heavy stubbers on your Leman russes, whatever you do. As a matter of fact I would take a hull heavy flamer instead of a heavy bolter as well. The reason is: wound allocation. Essentially, you want to fire the tank at sv3+ and 2+ units. When you get say 5 AP2 wounds on a combat squad, he has to remove it. But, if you cause a non-armour piercing wound as well, he can wrap the wounds around, and now has a chance to save one marine (by allocating a special model the stubber hit) and cause you some problems later.

Never put non-ap weapons on a tank mostly armed w/AP2.

Yeah, I was thinking about that in bed (why do I always think of these things in bed next to my GF?)

Question, do I HAVE to fire them? I was just putting it there for ablative weapon-destroyed mishaps, anyways, I'll fix the list up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karon wrote:HQ:80
Company Command Squad
- Vox
- x2 Grenade Launchers
- Regimental Standard

Troops:760
x2 Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad
- x3 Grenade Launchers
- Vox

x3 Infantry Squad
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- TWO SQUADs has Krak Nades (Pesky Armor 11-12 things)
- TWO SQUAD's Sarg has melta bombs

x1 Infantry Squad
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- Vox
- Commissar

Heavy Support:660
x2 Leman Russ Executioners
- Plasma Sponsons
- Hull Heavy-flamer
-

x1 Leman Russ Demolisher
- Plasma Cannon Sponsons
- Hull Heavy Flamer

All I did was remove the Heavy Stubbers, put HF's on all the russ's, and then use the extra 30 points to give one more squad in each platoon Krak-Nades and Melta Bombs. So 2 squads have krak nades, and two squads have 1 meltabomb on their sarg. That was basically my last concern regarding this list, drop-podding CC dreads are scary.

So, in general, do you think this list is tourney-worthy? I know I will get average score on the coolness factor and coverting goodness (I plan to spend many hours making these guys unique) but I am wondering if anyone would be kind enough to post their list, and tell me your tactics against my list.

Of course, I realize a good list one thing, good generalship is another.

mm... seems your anti-tank is a bit short ranged. Demolishers range is lacking (heavily). I'd really suggest just a normal LR for pie plate goodness (str 8 ap 3 isn't bad), and you can almost get 2 for the price of a demolisher. And as I said, your anti-tank is lacking. AV 14 will make your life hell, to say the least. Maybe some melta-vets in chims?

My demolisher is 205 points.

2 LRBT's W/O sponsons, which I don't take, is 300, I would put PC sponsons, thats 380. Its not close at all.

AV14, we are talking Battlewagons (which won't do anything unless it is within 24", as it is not fast), Monoliths, Land Raiders(which is either two TL Lascannons, a redeemer (within 24") Crusader(within 24"), and probably some more stuff that I am missing.

The thing I really fear is not being able to kill them at all, which WAS a problem without the demolisher.

Its s10 ap2 large blast template, will crush AV14, especially since its ordnance.

I can't increase a demolishers range, unfortunately XD.

Though I appreciate your post ^.^

On the general Subject of Anti-Tank, I have a guaranteed two transports down per turn (4 Autocannons per platoon)

12 S7 AP2 small blasts, which will kill another two transports, or rape anything else minus AV14.

The demolisher for anything that comes into 24" of my gunline.

And really, I'll have a field day with hordes, 16 grenade launchers (small blasts), the executioners, demolishers, they won't have a chance.

Karon wrote:My demolisher is 205 points.

2 LRBT's W/O sponsons, which I don't take, is 300, I would put PC sponsons, thats 380. Its not close at all.

AV14, we are talking Battlewagons (which won't do anything unless it is within 24", as it is not fast), Monoliths, Land Raiders(which is either two TL Lascannons, a redeemer (within 24") Crusader(within 24"), and probably some more stuff that I am missing.

The thing I really fear is not being able to kill them at all, which WAS a problem without the demolisher.

Its s10 ap2 large blast template, will crush AV14, especially since its ordnance.

I can't increase a demolishers range, unfortunately XD.

Though I appreciate your post ^.^

On the general Subject of Anti-Tank, I have a guaranteed two transports down per turn (4 Autocannons per platoon)

12 S7 AP2 small blasts, which will kill another two transports, or rape anything else minus AV14.

The demolisher for anything that comes into 24" of my gunline.

And really, I'll have a field day with hordes, 16 grenade launchers (small blasts), the executioners, demolishers, they won't have a chance.

So your relying on one str 10 blast, that can scatter baddly, to take down av 14, which will deliver things like terminators into your front like and mow down 90% of your army? I just think relying on one short range gun with a 33% chance to pen isn't exactly the best course of action. And you also have to think about things like space wolve scouts or, worst possible case, Snikrot (which, with his kommando buddies, will probably win the game outright). AC's are great vs transports, but like I said, you will have a very hard time vs AV 14 vehicles. Its just my opinion, play how you want, you asked for suggestions and I gave em

As well, you cannot say your gonna have a field day with transports and things... I mean, statistically, yeah, you have a better than average chance. But all it takes is 1 orc mob, 1 troop of khorne zerkers, 1 squad of termies to mow your list down once they get in range... honestly, maybe its just me, but I don't like my list teetering on trying to prevent them from getting close to me (and not to mention drop pod SW who can assault the turn the pod drops).

You DO realize that IS the guard tactic, yes? Prevent them from getting in CC?

How exactly are those termies going to get there? They move 12" per turn (if no shooting, so probably) so they would have to spend one turn in range of my demolisher.

They're dead, and when those termis/zerkers/whatever pop out, are they going to survive 10 plasma cannons? I doubt it.

Demolisher has a large blast, its going to be really hard to miss that pretty wide Land Raider/battlewagon completely.

Plasma Cannons/lasguns > Snikrot

The Demo. Cannon IS ordnance, so it does roll two dice, and pick the best one.

My budget IS tight, as I am in school, providing for two (my girlfriend and I) working fairly often.

Now, I COULD keep the two platoons, but make them all squads of 20, alright, but now I need 80 points for two more commisars and two more voxes, they are needed.

This would be generally better, let me tinker.

Karon wrote:HQ:70
Company Command Squad
- Vox
- Regimental Standard

Troops:780
x2 Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad
- x3 Grenade Launchers
- Vox

x2 x2 Infantry Squad(s) (There is two squads of twenty per platoon)
- Autocannon
- Grenade Launcher
- Each squad of 20 has a Commissar
- Each squad of 20 has a Vox

Heavy Support:650
x2 Leman Russ Executioners
- Plasma Sponsons
- Hull Heavy-flamer

x1 Leman Russ Demolisher
- Multi-Melta Sponsons
- Hull Heavy Flamer

So now I have 4 squads of twenty, so a bit more safe on that side, and improved my transport stopping ability, two autocannons should kill a transport. So now I can kill a potential 4 transport from 48" per turn.

I put the Multi-Melta Sponsons back on the demolisher, I need that landraider dead when I fire on it.

I dropped the krak-nades/melta bombs from the Infantry Squads, I needed the points, and I doubt they will get to my line anyways.

Dropped the GL's on the CCS, needed points.

So basically, my plan is to dig in for the first few turns, basically crush face with autocannons, plasma cannons, etc. If I face Tau, well I'll just have to get within rapid-fire range of lasguns, throw down some FRFSRF on my squads, and let loose, thats probably not a good tactic.

Anyways, on turn 3 or so, I'll start moving up, keeping one squad at my home objective. Now I hope I haven't lost any tanks, since Russ's are pretty 'ard.

All my tanks are impervious to S4 attacks, because of rear AV 11, which is nice.

My CCS and PCS(S) will keep giving orders, BID, etc.

What do YOU think?