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So I am planning to start an Imperial Guard army with using Pig Iron miniatures for my guardsmen, but I realized I might not be able to play at my local GW store. It seems it is against GW store policy to play with minis other than their products. My friend was not allowed to field his scratch-built Ork battle wagon in one of our games at the store. Why would GW do such I thing? Players that built into their armies into creative ways using other products or methods will still be playing Warhammer 40k so what gives? We are playing a game they made after all, using the same rules, stats, etc. If this policy is true for all GW stores, won't it be a low blow to players such as ourselves, who choose to use products other than GW's to enhance our armies to satiate our artistic creativeness? What do you guys think?

As I see it, as a friendly game, sure why not? For a tourny? No, you MUST have Games Workshop miniatures OR be converted using said companies bit, and/or being over 75% Games workshop bitz. Sorry if I sound abit preachy, just stating when you'd actually beable to play your custom built army.

Because GW is a faceless corporation..

Although I heard in another thread of someone being allowed to play with them..

This is an old problem, simply put, its GW's store so its their rules and they say no other companies minis. Stupid i know, but its their right...
Find an independant store in your area that doesnt have that rule and go ahead with the pig iron.
BTW the pig iron heads go great on warzone plastic troops.

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/tg2420-1.html
did i mention you get 80 of these for like 20 pounds?

It varies from store to store, and how much of a idiot the local manager is.

At a store yesterday they wouldn't let some kid use armory primer.

GW only.

Hey it's their store...

Well, it was a bit curious that the best painted/modelled army at the German GT final this year
won a DH army with 3 Landraiders, 2 GK units, and 1 GKT squad.
The point was that the GK's were totally modelled by green stuff.
You can find a picture of one of the Landraiders at the GW homepage,
but none of the GK models.

Well, for conversions and the like I think you have a case. For example, if you were just using pig iron heads on cadian bodies, then I think they would be wrong to say you can't play- you bought the cadians and simply chose not to use the heads.
If it's another company's model entirely, I can see their point. The store is there to sell and promote GW product. They're not going to want free advertising for other people's stuff. And it's their right to refuse, their shop, their rules.

GW want you to buy their products only.

Just make your own club and don't play at the GW shop, then you're golden!

Kilkrazy wrote:GW want you to buy their products only.

Just make your own club and don't play at the GW shop, then you're golden!

I'm glad my lfgs manager isnt as jerky as this guy..

On a more polite note, they actually don't mind, if it's like that one piece that they don't make that you need. I.E. The Eraticator Nova Cannon for the Leman Russ. Neither Forge World nor Games Workshop have a turret for it, so you have to convert it.

If you're in a GW shop, as stated before they are there to promoote and sell GW items, and not to advertise other companies stuff. That said most shop managers are ok as long as you are above the 75% mark with your minis. If you aren't (like me) then it's time to join a club or game at a FLGS where they sell more than just GW stuff.

I don't get it, this comes up all the time. If you are veteran enough to have the skills and ideas to convert up, you should have outgrown gaming at a shop filled with 12 year olds...

As for tourneys, its the same. Check the pack, some want 100%, while others (non GW) will want good counts as.

It also helps if you have a good relationship with the manger/staff as to how much leeway you'll get, plus how good your 'improved' minis are. Comedy stuff sometimes helps a lot, rather than 'I got dis lot a lot cheeeper, an I is wantin to plaa ere please'

For the scratch built stuff then the guys at store are being idiots. Get your friend to have a chat with the manager, show them the model and see what is said.

That said it depends on what you call 'scratchbuilt'.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, it was a bit curious that the best painted/modelled army at the German GT final this year
won a DH army with 3 Landraiders, 2 GK units, and 1 GKT squad.
The point was that the GK's were totally modelled by green stuff.
You can find a picture of one of the Landraiders at the GW homepage,
but none of the GK models.

Were they sculpted from GW brand Green Stuff?

Cambak wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:GW want you to buy their products only.

Just make your own club and don't play at the GW shop, then you're golden!

I'm glad my lfgs manager isnt as jerky as this guy..

On a more polite note, they actually don't mind, if it's like that one piece that they don't make that you need. I.E. The Eraticator Nova Cannon for the Leman Russ. Neither Forge World nor Games Workshop have a turret for it, so you have to convert it.

How is that jerky?

It's really that simple. If you dislike GW's rules for playing inside of their stores...

Then get out and make your own gaming group/tables.
Otherwise, man up and deal with their rules.

Kanluwen wrote:

Cambak wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:GW want you to buy their products only.

Just make your own club and don't play at the GW shop, then you're golden!

I'm glad my lfgs manager isnt as jerky as this guy..

On a more polite note, they actually don't mind, if it's like that one piece that they don't make that you need. I.E. The Eraticator Nova Cannon for the Leman Russ. Neither Forge World nor Games Workshop have a turret for it, so you have to convert it.

How is that jerky?

It's really that simple. If you dislike GW's rules for playing inside of their stores...

Then get out and make your own gaming group/tables.
Otherwise, man up and deal with their rules.

Good thing there are some local game shops around here. Plus my group usually have our own games now and then. I just find it hypocritical how GW won't let us play with other products when we are playing their games in the first place, was it not their goal to appeal to all kinds of war gamers alike during the 70s when they first opened? Now its all business, profit, and obvious market schemes. Okay, I won't rant about GW, they do make some great stuff from time to time. But still...bleh

Their reasoning really is simple.

40k/Fantasy are marketed towards beginners and younger teenagers. They try to remove the potential of confusion for those people by wanting models restricted to their lines.

Bam, right there. It restricts bringing in COMPLETELY different models from outside sources. But they have no issue with things like the Pig Iron heads, etc. Provided you're not going around touting "Buy Pig Iron heads and make your Cadians look better!" on their store premises.

This topic has been done to death, either way. They're usually fine with it--as long as you're not advocating a "Screw you GW" policy on their store properties.

But a FLGS will have a totally different perspective.

Einhänder:
Oh it is Hypicritical.
But as some are fond of pointing out its GW's right to say how they run their stores, and if you dont like it dont play in em.
I call that kinda statement a win. Dont like the rules? dont play here..... Ok then i wont V victory V

And if Privateer, Rackham, etc had their own stores they'd most likely adopt the same rules.

What's your point? A company will do everything to preserve their best interest.

Kanluwen wrote:And if Privateer, Rackham, etc had their own stores they'd most likely adopt the same rules.

What's your point? A company will do everything to preserve their best interest.

But they dont so your point is moot.
Buuuuuut... GW do have stores, do have managers that fallow a policy laid down by the GW brass, to inforce these type of actions.

And i agree the bastages at GW will do everything they can to preserve their best intrests. unfortunately they took the short bus to fan relations school.

Whats my point? if you dont like GW's store policy dont play there. dont buy anything from the hypicritacal snakes if you dont like em, and dont worry, if you have a problem with GW some fanboy will be along to tell you you have no problems that gw is good, kind and doesnt deserve any of the EVIL hater, hatie, hate its getting. (thank gawd for them)
off topic and because i can : Here lets have a non GW fun momment.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apEZpYnN_1g

What in the hell are you talking about?

They don't pretend that they're going to let you use another company's models in their company's store. So that's not hypocritical.

And you're exactly right. Because those OTHER companies do not have stores--we don't know what they do.

But we can look at y'know, any other market...do you see Microsoft offering to repair PS3s? Sony doing the same for 360s?

I dont think having a few pieces from other products should be a problem, but I definitely see where theyre coming from if the entire model is scratchbuilt or another company's model.

GW is a business, and while I disagree with a lot of their business "tactics" (recently, Bloodbowl and Vassal come to mind), I dont see a problem with them wanting people to use their own products.

Kanluwen wrote:What in the hell are you talking about?

They don't pretend that they're going to let you use another company's models in their company's store. So that's not hypocritical.

And you're exactly right. Because those OTHER companies do not have stores--we don't know what they do.

But we can look at y'know, any other market...do you see Microsoft offering to repair PS3s? Sony doing the same for 360s?

A:Yes it is, considering their origins. and some stores do depending on the Arse level of the manager (so mixed signals there.)
B: ok
C:No I cant becasue its not the same, simply due to the fact that some repairs are 3rd party independant repair firms, and GW wont allow 3rd party anything. the business stratagies from those other companies are not the same as ol GW.
If you walk into a comp store its rare to just see a 1 brand shop ,unless its mac, taking the example of a mac store, i can garenetee you, they WILL acknolage that there are other brands out there and WILL talk to you about other brands and how they compare to MAC. they wont ask you to leave if you bring in an ACER, if you praise an ACER, they will be polite, and serve your needs cause 'YOUR A CUSTOMER' not a GW drone.

The store to store , manager to manager discrepancy is whats making it bad Kanluwen.

No one is saying its bad for GW to be strict on players using their product.

What we are saying is , it gets annoying when we get the green light one moment , and we put effort and $ into converting / mix matching with other company product .
And suddenly oh noes we cant use it anymore.

Do you get what im saying?

You want two real good ones?

One of the guys I play BFG against on occasion told me about this:

He went to this one GW store where they were using color swatches to check the PAINTS the players were using on their models. He was quickly thrown out for having used Tamiya sprays to basecoat his ships.

I once said on here, ironically, that GWs current policies were one step removed from sending in guys to break our legs for using other people's bits.

I was told by another gamer that this is not so far off, he told he had to withdraw from a GW tourney due to having one of TPC's female cadians as an autocannon loader. When he protested that it was 75% GW, they examined the mini in question.

One of the employees then snapped off the offending head off and then told him it was ok for him to take part now.

I can't say for sure about the first stories truth, but I know that the second take really did have a broken head, as he had brought it to me to repair and touch up the paint.

Exactly BaronIveagh .
Thats what i have been saying since the other thread ,
GW always claim for it to be 75% , but that % can easily be tweaked to w/e they feel like.

The bottom line is this:
If another company's product is capable of attracting attention no matter the % , GW will NOT allow it.

Simple as that, and Kanluwen i suggest you look at other dakka member's testimony , we arnt making these up when GW people are always changing what they allow or not allow. ( AGAIN the biggest issue here )

Hawkins wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What in the hell are you talking about?

They don't pretend that they're going to let you use another company's models in their company's store. So that's not hypocritical.

And you're exactly right. Because those OTHER companies do not have stores--we don't know what they do.

But we can look at y'know, any other market...do you see Microsoft offering to repair PS3s? Sony doing the same for 360s?

A:Yes it is, considering their origins. and some stores do depending on the Arse level of the manager (so mixed signals there.)
B: ok
C:No I cant becasue its not the same, simply due to the fact that some repairs are 3rd party independant repair firms, and GW wont allow 3rd party anything. the business stratagies from those other companies are not the same as ol GW.
If you walk into a comp store its rare to just see a 1 brand shop ,unless its mac, taking the example of a mac store, i can garenetee you, they WILL acknolage that there are other brands out there and WILL talk to you about other brands and how they compare to MAC. they wont ask you to leave if you bring in an ACER, if you praise an ACER, they will be polite, and serve your needs cause 'YOUR A CUSTOMER' not a GW drone.

Except GW does acknowledge there are other brands.

That's what NOT ALLOWING OTHERS IN THEIR STORE means.
And "considering their origins"?
You mean working as a third party and then busting their way up to pretty much be THE definitive face of miniature wargaming?

Gee. I can only wonder why they'd do what they do in THAT case.

And managers have different interpretations. So what? FLGSes are the same fething way. Is it really that hard to ASK before you start doing something?

And no, you do NOT have "third party repairs" on a PS3 or 360. Doing so violates the warranties, unless that third party is considered "qualified" by Microsoft/Sony.

Amazing how that works, isn't it?

Kanluwen wrote:

Hawkins wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What in the hell are you talking about?

They don't pretend that they're going to let you use another company's models in their company's store. So that's not hypocritical.

And you're exactly right. Because those OTHER companies do not have stores--we don't know what they do.

But we can look at y'know, any other market...do you see Microsoft offering to repair PS3s? Sony doing the same for 360s?

A:Yes it is, considering their origins. and some stores do depending on the Arse level of the manager (so mixed signals there.)
B: ok
C:No I cant becasue its not the same, simply due to the fact that some repairs are 3rd party independant repair firms, and GW wont allow 3rd party anything. the business stratagies from those other companies are not the same as ol GW.
If you walk into a comp store its rare to just see a 1 brand shop ,unless its mac, taking the example of a mac store, i can garenetee you, they WILL acknolage that there are other brands out there and WILL talk to you about other brands and how they compare to MAC. they wont ask you to leave if you bring in an ACER, if you praise an ACER, they will be polite, and serve your needs cause 'YOUR A CUSTOMER' not a GW drone.

Except GW does acknowledge there are other brands.

That's what NOT ALLOWING OTHERS IN THEIR STORE means.
And "considering their origins"?
You mean working as a third party and then busting their way up to pretty much be THE definitive face of miniature wargaming?

Gee. I can only wonder why they'd do what they do in THAT case.

And managers have different interpretations. So what? FLGSes are the same fething way. Is it really that hard to ASK before you start doing something?

And no, you do NOT have "third party repairs" on a PS3 or 360. Doing so violates the warranties, unless that third party is considered "qualified" by Microsoft/Sony.

Amazing how that works, isn't it?

First of all , cut the condescending tone , you are starting to sound like Gwar! , but this is like only page 1.
2nd

Is it really that hard to ASK before you start doing something?

Why do you keep ignoring different dakkite's post?
Sure you dont believe what i post? fine! How about other's experience? Ppl DO ASK , they DO get an answer , and when they get the green light to go for it,
then sometimes later other GW staff / store wont allow it!

Do you not understand this annoying discrepancy?
Either allow it or not. Or , set up a strict rule for it.
None of this " common sense % " junk that changes day to day.

Luna: i'll say its silly, usless, and creates a bad feeling for those that like other minis.

Baron: well thats another sore point, but on the brightside, GW is responsible for all the behavior of their employees. so the stain belongs to them for creating the rule in the first place..

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Hawkins wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What in the hell are you talking about?

They don't pretend that they're going to let you use another company's models in their company's store. So that's not hypocritical.

And you're exactly right. Because those OTHER companies do not have stores--we don't know what they do.

But we can look at y'know, any other market...do you see Microsoft offering to repair PS3s? Sony doing the same for 360s?

A:Yes it is, considering their origins. and some stores do depending on the Arse level of the manager (so mixed signals there.)
B: ok
C:No I cant becasue its not the same, simply due to the fact that some repairs are 3rd party independant repair firms, and GW wont allow 3rd party anything. the business stratagies from those other companies are not the same as ol GW.
If you walk into a comp store its rare to just see a 1 brand shop ,unless its mac, taking the example of a mac store, i can garenetee you, they WILL acknolage that there are other brands out there and WILL talk to you about other brands and how they compare to MAC. they wont ask you to leave if you bring in an ACER, if you praise an ACER, they will be polite, and serve your needs cause 'YOUR A CUSTOMER' not a GW drone.

Except GW does acknowledge there are other brands.

That's what NOT ALLOWING OTHERS IN THEIR STORE means.
And "considering their origins"?
You mean working as a third party and then busting their way up to pretty much be THE definitive face of miniature wargaming?

Gee. I can only wonder why they'd do what they do in THAT case.

And managers have different interpretations. So what? FLGSes are the same fething way. Is it really that hard to ASK before you start doing something?

And no, you do NOT have "third party repairs" on a PS3 or 360. Doing so violates the warranties, unless that third party is considered "qualified" by Microsoft/Sony.

Amazing how that works, isn't it?

First of all , cut the condescending tone , you are starting to sound like Gwar! , but this is like only page 1.
2nd

Is it really that hard to ASK before you start doing something?

Why do you keep ignoring different dakkite's post?
Sure you dont believe what i post? fine! How about other's experience? Ppl DO ASK , they DO get an answer , and when they get the green light to go for it,
then sometimes other GW wont allow it!

Do you not understand this annoying discrepancy?

Firstly: You're ignored for a reason. Constantly trying to start little whinefests about how you're wronged by GW and always with the "condescending tone" garbage.
Secondly: Yeah. It's a real pain in the butt that DIFFERENT STORES HAVE DIFFERENT RULES.

I mean really. The nerve of all those different managers acting like real people and interpreting rules differently!

Kanluwen wrote:
Firstly: You're ignored for a reason. Constantly trying to start little whinefests about how you're wronged by GW and always with the "condescending tone" garbage.
Secondly: Yeah. It's a real pain in the butt that DIFFERENT STORES HAVE DIFFERENT RULES.
I mean really. The nerve of all those different managers acting like real people and interpreting rules differently!

And guess what? All those stores belong to which company???

Whinefests? wronged by GW? are you seriousely obtuse?
Does it LOOK like im the only one here?

Why do you insist on ignoring everyone that is voicing their experience and go straight only at ME?
actually i know why , i think we all do.

regarding the condescending tone? i high lighted them in earlier post.
I dont know what you want to call it then?