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ObiFett wrote: I remember hearing a rumor that our Suits used to be able to jump 12", shoot, jump 12". Is this true? If so, and considering they seem to be going back to alot of the older rules, this may be something we could look forward to.

It wasn't really a rule. . . In the sheet of rumors that came out before the Tau release, jetpacks could jump 12 but only jump back 6.



. . . The new IG looks absurdly powerful - I wonder if we'll see lots more IG armies now.

According to the original Tau 3e codex design article on the GW site (I don't know if it's still there) they had the suits jumping either 12/6 or 12/12 and found it too powerful.

However, now that all infantry have been speeded up, perhaps the suits should be 12/12.

At least suits are ok with CC (mainly because they count as relentless now). I remember 2 weeks ago my commander (shas'o) and a bodyguard kill 4 termies without taking any wounds.

JSJ of 12/6 or 12/12 would be too powerful and I don't think they are going to tinker with it because of how the BRB has what is now a Tau specific rule freshly printed in it.

Rather I see the Tau getting a tech boost in the form of being able to target while moving more accurately which leads to greater range on the suit weapons systems or an improved BS.

As to other improvements? A turbo type rule would be nice but I think the Tau will get Jetbikes before that happened.

Come to think about it, Tau jetbikes armed with pulse rifles or drone jet-bikes with twin-linked rifles would be nasty. Redo the tetras as jetbikes would be pretty cool also.

Even if they don't make them jet-bikes I really hope we get the Tetras. With targeting array thats 4 highly mobile markers at BS4 and 4 twin-linked pulse rifle shots. Maybe if they put the rail rifle on them...hhhhmmmm.

Wishlisting you say? If the IG get a quarter of what is rumored then this is boring in comparison. Now back to my pirahna/jetbike conversion I've been toying with the idea of doing.....

How about this idea for a Kroot Shaper ability:
Cannibal Frenzy- To signify the kroot's insatiable desire to devour their prey, When rolling for sweeping advance, you may opt to roll a second die. If this option is taken, the kroot must go to ground the next turn as they are either exhausted from chasing an escaped target, or are devouring their kill.

I remember kroot had to take leadership tests after winning CC in the last Tau codex, so i thought it might be cool to bring it back, but with an added benefit to compensate.

Make Broadsides count as having relentless.

Personally I hope they make this a reality.

For other Tau conceptual stuff that never was, see this thread on ATT.

@synchronicity, Any chance you could import those pictures in another format. Vista 64 has problems with adobe and I haven't been able to find an update that works.

woah that guy has some crazy ideas. Would those be Rail Rifles?

@8TidbiT8: I believe so. A Tau jetbike with a rail rifle. Sounds like a fun apocalypse unit.
@focusedfire: Sorry, I can't save the pictures from that adobe site, and I believe it would be illegal to anyway. I'm running Vista 64bit with Firefox and they display alright for me.

I continued thinking about this thread, and it got the gears a'turnin. Like others, I don't think Tau need a "fix," more like an "update." Hears what I came up with:

KP Issues
1) If a Vehicle carrying Drones in recesses is destroyed, the drones are automatically destroyed with it, conferring no extra Kill Point (the vehicle still does). If a player decides to disembark the drones at any time before the vehicle is destroyed, they count as a separate unit and confer a Kill Point when destroyed, along with the vehicle.

2) A Sniper Drone Team is counted as a single Kill Point, but changes to a 0-1 Heavy choice. The reasoning behind this is your opponent must destroy all teams to get the full KP, but you're only allowed one of these teams. A further balancing factor for a SDT is that if you do 4 or more wounds to them (pie plate anyone?), you must put one on the "spotter." If the Spotter fails his save, all Drones are lost with him. So they're not THAT hard to kill if you devote a little attention to them.

I also thought of making a player deploy all SDT's within unit coherency of each other, and have them count as a single KP (still a 0-1 choice). However, I feel this goes against the SDT's intended fluff and usage, as they are supposed to act independently from each other. Which do you guys think is more balanced?

~

Build an 'O - A more interesting HQ selection process

Players would still be able to build their +1 Battlesuit HQ just like they normally would. However, many 5th ed HQ trends are beginning to emerge where your HQ has special rules (i.e. affecting army composition or additions/overrides to BRB rules). Instead of giving the Tau a bunch of named characters, I propose an extension of the current Battlesuit HQ creation process, with Special Issue Command Upgrades (Shas'o only).

A seasoned Shas'o commander has access to the latest in battlefield command and communication technology. Only one Special Issue Command Upgrade may be taken per army, per Shas'o, at the cost of one Battlesuit weapon or support system.

1) Advanced Drone Network -
You may take 0-2 Gun Drone Squadrons as Troop choices. If the Shas'o with the ADN upgrade is killed, all Drone units on the table (including Fast Attack and Independent units) must take a morale check.

2) Command Link -
Any unit that has failed a morale check after losing close combat within 12 inches of the Shas'o automatically passes their initiative check. They must fall back 3D6 (4D6 for Jet Packers).

3) Stealth Field Generator -
The Shas'o is counted as having a Stealth Field Generator. He may not take a Bodyguard Retinue, but may still take Drones. Any drones the Shas'o takes are also stealthed.

4) Deep Strike Coordinator -
Any unit deep striking within LOS to the Shas'o with a DSC may re-roll their scatter dice. The second result stands. If the unit deep striking mishaps, they receive a -1 modifier to their deep strike mishap roll.

~

Unit Changes - This is wear I wanted to be careful, not getting too carried away.

Pathfinders
1) Pathfinders gain the Infiltrate and Stealth USR's
2) Pathfinders lose the ability to take a Devilfish Transport

Kroot
1) All Kroot, Kroot Hounds, and Krootox Riders gain a 6+ armor save at no additional cost

~

Wargear Changes - A little clean up with a fluff brush

Multi-Tracker - Allows the firer to fire two different weapons (note that one or either of these may be twin-linked). This clears up any argument about "Battlesuit Weapon Systems" and other units being able to utilize a MT.

Pulse Carbine - Comes standard with Photon Grenades. This is actually directly from the fluff; "...comes with an underslung Photon Grenade Launcher."

~

So there you have it, the fruits of a couple days of thinking. What I really wanted to do with it was put a couple units back on the table that you don't often see in 5th anymore (Sniper Drone Teams and Pulse Carbine Firewarriors). I'm still not sure what to do about Vespids or Ethereals. What do you guys think?

No offence but I think that most of that just hands the opponent the game on a diamond-encrusted platinum buffet tray in a 5 star restaurant.

Btw DRONES FROM VEHICLES DO NOT GIVE ANY KILL POINTS

Sniper Drone Teams are already too expensive because of the factor that if you kill the leader you kill all the drones for free, and also because Stealth has become less effective. They should probably cost 50p under the 5e rules.

It does not make sense to limit them to a 0-1, they only make any sense as a 0-3 option.

Krellnus wrote:No offence but I think that most of that just hands the opponent the game on a diamond-encrusted platinum buffet tray in a 5 star restaurant.

Btw DRONES FROM VEHICLES DO NOT GIVE ANY KILL POINTS

I would really appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit more on both points. No offense taken, but it would help me if you were a bit more specific.

Kilkrazy wrote:It does not make sense to limit them to a 0-1, they only make any sense as a 0-3 option.

Who wants to give up more than one railgun slot to sniper drones? My thinking was that not many people make an all comers list takes more than one Sniper Drone support choice, so in my head I was solving two problems. 9 SDT's for 3 kill points is a bit much IMO. I do agree that they are overpriced, however.

I still stand by my idea of tearing the sniper drone teams apart and reforming them with stealthsuit controllers.

@Krellnus-Last ruling was that vehicle drones gave up a KP.

synchronicity wrote:Personally I hope they make this a reality.

For other Tau conceptual stuff that never was, see this thread on ATT.

Bloody hell... that bike is awesome. That would really suit the tau well me thinks.

Is that bike basicly a flying railgun or something?

synchronicity wrote:Instead of giving the Tau a bunch of named characters, I propose an extension of the current Battlesuit HQ creation process, with Special Issue Command Upgrades (Shas'o only).

Did you see my post way back eailer in this thread? I thought up some gear ideas as well. Btw, i support the idea of not giving the tau any more named characters. We don't need them. The tau are about working together, setting aside PERSONAL GAIN for the greater good. I say lots of special issue gear and make our own custom commanders


Heres a note i think would help the kroot survive their role. Give them I4

What should the stats of a Tau jetbike be and should it be a regular jetbike or should it move just like a jet-pack?

What weapons should they get? Railrifle? Markerlights? Pulserifles?

Jet-packs. Keeps things simple so Tau players don't have to learn a slew of new rules just for 1 unit. I'm not 100% sure with stats because i'm not familar with them. Can someone list a jetbikes stats and then we have a idea of what we can think up?

From what i can see, perhaps a new weapon? Perhaps a twin-linked "Pluse Blaster" (Same as a Pluse rifle, just bigger on scale). Failing that, settle for a twin-linked railrifles. Markerlights would be very hard to aim on a bike (considering you would moving VERY fast)

Jetbikes usually improve toughness by 1 and give a 3+ armoursave.

Why do I get the feeling that if they did give the Tau a jetbike they'd hamstring the unit with the same short range equip that they gave the pirahnas. Man the Tau really need a codex fusion cannon for the pirahna.

Under the concept of game balance the thought of railrifle jetbikes seems a bit much for a troop choice. It'd have to be a heavy or elite.
The standard pulse rifle would really work, maybe a little to well, and if you give the bikes the hard hitting stuff theres not as much of a reason to take the crisis suits.
If the bikes are like the eldar jetbikes with JSJ then burst cannons or twinlinked carbines make sense. If burst cannon the squad could only be about six strong and if the carbines then they're profile might need to be improved.

If the jetbikes move like standard jetbikes then the twin-linked pulse rifle would probably be ok and would be just like the Tetra as that they'd limit the number of them and put markers on them. The markers wouldn't be bad but they'd make the bike exorbidant in price.

If they move like jet packs then some of the Tau weapons are going to need a Tech boost in the form of increased range.

Marker lights are already mounted on fast vehicles so they already have a precedent for them being aimed and fired from a fast vehicle.

I get this feeling that the tetra are going to show up in the next codex and wouldn't be surprised to see them changed to jetbikes seeing that the Tau already have the pirahna as light vehicles. This gives me mixed feelings as to the fact I think the idea of jet-bikes are great but those models are, to put it politely, very meh.

Yeah,

Crisis suit pilots can also be jet bike pilots. Thus the higher LD.

Fast attack.
WS2, Bs3, T3(4). W1, A2, LD 8, 3+ save eldar jet bike. 12" move 6" assault move even if not assaulting.

Squad 1-3
Weapons are TL rail rifles. S6 AP3
One may be upgraded to a Shas'ui for 10 points, and may take any wargear that Shas'ui are allowed to take.
Each bike may take a Target array for +5 points, if one takes it, they must all take it.

20 Pts each.
These guys can't be too expensive, other wise they auto loose to crisis suits, they should also be cheaper than eldar jet bikes because they don't have the same HTH ability.

Jayden63, it's a good thought, but the crisis suit isn't costly because of it's base cost (25 points, 35 for shas'vre), its the cost of the gear they take(Missilepod/plasma/targeting array is 42pts) that gives them bulk. The jetbikes are too cheap for what they are. (Max cost of the bikes are 85 points, while the crisis would be 211 points)

Considering that the sinper drone team are 80 points as a heavy support choice, having a twin-linked version with huge mobility with higher BS,T,A and a +3 save for a extra 5 points seems overkill.

Then again.... this is fifth editon..

-----------------------------------

Focusedfire, i too have large frustation with alot of the tau weapons being short range equipments. Honestly, they can make godly weapons like railguns and rail rifles or even pluse rifles but they give gimpy short range guns to armored units? (minus the hammerhead/broadside) Who the hell builds the tau weapons with such short range??

Could you link me a picture of a tetra if your able to please? I know.. i'm out of the loop ):

A Marker light might work so long it's fired from the front of the bike (like a passive laser sight idea).

-----------------------------------

I had a interesting idea for a Tau super-heavy. A large 4 leg walker with front mounted railguns, side and rear mounted burst cannons, and a large "Rail-Devastator" (Basicly a railgun, just bigger in design). It would be equiped with powerful shields to protect it and it could transport crisis suits and several gun-drone sqauds, deployable from the rear of the walker.

Think about it, the tau don't have a super-heavy unit (The greater narlock doesn't count, that's a kroot super-heavy), no other army has a 4 legged walker like unit (other than the nids), and a transport that could hold crisis suits would be sick ^_^

Manta. Carries the whole hunter cadre.


I don't have a problem with the jetbike idea proposed. As it is the sniper drone team may be overcosted but an ultra-mobile version with twin-linked and a higher bs option should cost about the same(or slightly more) if it doesn't get the stealth protection.

I think that they could go the "Progress goes forward".. and have that target locks are no longer an upgrade: it is now built in. BS4 Tau would go a long way into making them an Elite shooting army.

AdeptSister wrote:I think that they could go the "Progress goes forward".. and have that target locks are no longer an upgrade: it is now built in. BS4 Tau would go a long way into making them an Elite shooting army.

That's fair that target locks become built into every Tau weapon. Fixes things fluff wise. If tau units got BS4 then they become equal to space marines... which kinda ruins the flavor. In Tau fluff, they have slightly narrow vision with their eyes. I say BS3 is fine, markerlights and other methods are the key to make tau.. well... tau ^_^

Railguns wrote:Manta. Carries the whole hunter cadre.


I don't have a problem with the jetbike idea proposed. As it is the sniper drone team may be overcosted but an ultra-mobile version with twin-linked and a higher bs option should cost about the same(or slightly more) if it doesn't get the stealth protection.

Your right about the sniper drone team being overcosted, but stealth protection with them mean little.

The Stealth generator forces the shooting unit to take a night fighting test which as we all know is 2d6x3. Sadly a stealth generator is hardly useful in most times it's been used. With that roll people can see between 9" and 54" which more than 50% of the time it's enough for pretty much any unit to see and fire basic weapons at them (24" for ya boltgun). Sure, it could save you from some really far ranged weapons, but considering that the USER's weapons are often gimped by their own range restriction (12 or 18 for stealth suit, 36" for sniper drones) and thanks to everything able to move futher than before thanks to running the stealth generator has lost alot of appeal...

If stealth generators were to be "useful" they need to be 2d6x2, not 2d6x3. Oh, and the stealth generators bonus of "counting as in cover" doesn't work if enemies use frag genrades.. which i believe is pretty much becoming standardized for each army.

Not disagreeing with the thought of 2d6 x2 spotting distance for stealth. Call it a tech advancement and leave it at that. I just wanted to point out that the spotting distances would be 6-36" not 9-54.

As I said it'd be nice if the stealth was as good as the Harlequin Shadowseers ability. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that the Tau are going to continue to be stuck in the "like Eldar" but with tech thats not quite as good.
Examples- Skimmers not as fast, Haywire grenades do the trick starting at a d6 roll of 2 compared to the d6 roll of 4 for the EMP grenade.

There areas where the Tau do better but its because of the better average armour and higher toughness of the suits rather than any real tech superiority.

As to your comment about BS4 making Tau equal to SMs. Well, they should be. If the Tau can't equal the SMs in shooting then what chance do they have. Honestly the Tau should be better in the shooting phase because they don't have HtH to fall back on.

I don't think it spoils the flavor and as far as fluff goes. It changed with this last codex and it will probably again. Thats why I won't let the fluff paint me into a corner when considering the next codex's direction.


As to the jetbike and what I think it will be:

WS2 BS4 S3 T3(4) W1* A1 I2 Ld8 Sv 3+
Unit type: Jetbike(Not the eldar one)
Weapons: Twin-link Pulse rifles*
Squad size: 6-12*

* If the bikes end up being 2-man Tetra types then the bikes will have 2 wounds, a secondary markerlight weapon and the unit size will be 3-6.

I'd love it if they got rail rifles but if GW didn't take the common sense approach and allow stealth teams to take the rifle drones when they introduced them. Then I don't think there is anyway that a Jetbike with the Eldar move 12" and always assualt any direction 6" will evr happen.

I didn't think this many people actaully care about the tau good to know i'm not the only one.

There is alot more. Sadly 1/2 of them will be switching to IG very soon ):

I for one, will NOT switch to IG due to the new codex rush. IG is not my style *I dislike throwing troops away*

Sternguard_rock wrote:I didn't think this many people actaully care about the tau good to know i'm not the only one.

Tau used to make up about 10% of the user base. They were the most popular Xeno army until the Eldar and Orks got revamped.

synchronicity wrote:

Krellnus wrote:No offence but I think that most of that just hands the opponent the game on a diamond-encrusted platinum buffet tray in a 5 star restaurant.

Btw DRONES FROM VEHICLES DO NOT GIVE ANY KILL POINTS

I would really appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit more on both points. No offense taken, but it would help me if you were a bit more specific.

Kilkrazy wrote:It does not make sense to limit them to a 0-1, they only make any sense as a 0-3 option.

Who wants to give up more than one railgun slot to sniper drones? My thinking was that not many people make an all comers list takes more than one Sniper Drone support choice, so in my head I was solving two problems. 9 SDT's for 3 kill points is a bit much IMO. I do agree that they are overpriced, however.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying.

At the moment the Sniper Drone team can be take 0-3 in a HS slot -- up to three teams as a single slot. I thought you wanted to reduce it to 0-1 -- only one team in a slot.

I don't see why people would want to deploy 9 Sniper teams but it might be fun and I don't think it would be abusive so I wouldn't make it illegal.

This is a Tetra.



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/tetra.htm

It's got two pulse rifles under the nose and a markerlight on top of the roof/tail bit. This would probably work as a twin-linked pulse rifle, which doesn't strike me as being a very useful armament for a vehicle, but would distinguish it from a suit. The markerlight would need to be fire on the move. I could see it rolled out as a kind of heavy bike in squadrons of 1-5. Depending on point value, it could replace Pathfinders.

I think it's a nice looking vehicle and would make a great polystyrene kit. The Forge World cost is £30 for two resin kits.