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So let me get this straight. A guy who's made his living pounding out equations for "what if" physics can't come up with a "what if" when it comes to the topic of an afterlife? He DOES believe in E.T.s though which really seems odd given this position.

I wonder if he's ever told anyone to go to hell. Where did he really want them to go? Jersey maybe?

He was married. Do you think during intercourse he cried out "oh my great non existent being!?"

Oh well, one less person takin' up my air in heaven.

Since he can't talk it's unlikely.

sarcastro01 wrote:So let me get this straight. A guy who's made his living pounding out equations for "what if" physics can't come up with a "what if" when it comes to the topic of an afterlife? He DOES believe in E.T.s though which really seems odd given this position.

The existence of life on earth sets precedence, and the vastness of the Universe aids the probability. Estra-terrestrial life makes sense when you consider probability of it all. Unlikely to be anything like what you see in the movies, but the likelihood of there actually being life is fairly high when you consider the many billions of planets in the Universe.

As for God... there's really nothing to directly imply its existence. Religious texts aren't proof, they were written by men, and men are fallible. Many religious people will attest to the lack of accuracy in their own texts. There's no known precedence for God either. So until the evidence is presented and analyzed, there's no reason to come to 'God' as part of any sort of logical conclusion.

I wonder if he's ever told anyone to go to hell. Where did he really want them to go? Jersey maybe?

He was married. Do you think during intercourse he cried out "oh my great non existent being!?"

Statements like "oh my God" and "go to Hell" aren't religious statements. They have religious history, but they've become engrained into our modern communication and are largely secular in meaning.

Kilkrazy wrote:Since he can't talk it's unlikely.

Heheheh...heh....

As to the after-life, im skeptical. Hopeful, but skeptical. The only thing that kinda irks me is when he says, "Heaven is a place for those who are afraid of the dark." Who isn't afraid? It's an absolutely terrifying prospect; the end of conciousness. I just don't think you should chide people about that. You're crazy if that doesn't scare you.

It doesn't scare me. Why should it? If my consciousness ends I won't be around to be afraid, in pain, or otherwise lacking in happiness.

Fafnir wrote:
The existence of life on earth sets precedence, and the vastness of the Universe aids the probability. Estra-terrestrial life makes sense when you consider probability of it all. Unlikely to be anything like what you see in the movies, but the likelihood of there actually being life is fairly high when you consider the many billions of planets in the Universe.

As for God... there's really nothing to directly imply its existence. Religious texts aren't proof, they were written by men, and men are fallible. Many religious people will attest to the lack of accuracy in their own texts. There's no known precedence for God either. So until the evidence is presented and analyzed, there's no reason to come to 'God' as part of any sort of logical conclusion.

So its so much more logical (I really don't like those comments, suggesting that all religious people aren't educated, or lack logical thought etc) to believe other life forms exist, even though out wonderful technology that has found no sign of God or Heaven, hasn't found any E.T life....


One thing i want to bring up is, if the idea of God is so ridiculous, then why have so many people believed it for 1000s of years?
There might be less religious people around today, but that in part is because there are more options, but there are still a lot (I read Catholicism is the largest Christian community, with over 1 Billion followers...). Is their really that many insane people who are afraid of the dark? Or is the maybe something built inside our being that urges people towards the notion of God?

rodgers37 wrote:
So its so much more logical (I really don't like those comments, suggesting that all religious people aren't educated, or lack logical thought etc) to believe other life forms exist, even though out wonderful technology that has found no sign of God or Heaven, hasn't found any E.T life....

There is a difference between believing that X exists, and acting as though its possible existence might affect your life.

rodgers37 wrote:
One thing i want to bring up is, if the idea of God is so ridiculous, then why have so many people believed it for 1000s of years?

The obvious answer is that lots of people are stupid. Of course, I'm not saying that the fact that lots of people are not of high intelligence means that those people must believe in God, or even that the belief in God indicates low intelligence, I'm merely saying that there are reasons that the Ad Populum fallacy exists.

I did back up my claims that religions encourage people to feel superior.

They aren't going to say it outright as it's not really going to earn them much suport but almost all religions have some kind of "live your life in a certain way because thats what god wants". They are claiming their way is better, and that it can be proved because god said so. Why do religions try to convert people if they don't believe their beliefs are superior. How is saying to someone "you're going to hell" not seeing them as inferior? The bible has lots of cases of suporting christians over non christians yet you say it doesn't see them as superior.

Rodgers- we have actual proof that life can exist. If that conditions were right for life here and there are billions of other planets, the chance of other life isn't that low. It gets higher when you consider that live adapts to its surroundings. It might be nothing like anything on earth but probabillity supports the existance of other life.

We have no reason to believe that god exists. Human faith and 2000 year old opinions aren't evidence. Doesn't mean you can't believe them but saying there is equal evidence isn't really true.

There are not just billions of planets, but billions of galaxies in the universe.

You also have to remember that conditions on Earth have changed drastically over the course of the history of life. We would not be able to exist at many points in Earth's development, but there was still life.

As an athiest I would say that religion is at best a misguided attempt by people to try and make people feel better and treat each other well (well, some of them are... there are a number of much more voilent religions around which have thankfully not survived well into more recent times) and at worst they are cynical tools of manipulation and power gathering.

One only has to look at the endless recycling of stories between different religions, the changes made to religions over time, the political and social pressures changing religion etc and the various "splinter" factions splitting off, fighting with, overtaking, dwindling and so on to see how far from the "perfect god given faith" that religion tries to tell you it is.

dogma wrote:It doesn't scare me. Why should it? If my consciousness ends I won't be around to be afraid, in pain, or otherwise lacking in happiness.

That is way too suggestive for me to feel comfortable.

4M2A wrote:I did back up my claims that religions encourage people to feel superior.

No you didn't actually, but if it helps you to think you did, go for it. It would be easier to sleep better in a CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT but heh, to each theitr own.

Frazzled wrote:

4M2A wrote:I did back up my claims that religions encourage people to feel superior.

No you didn't actually, but if it helps you to think you did, go for it. It would be easier to sleep better in a CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT but heh, to each theitr own.

Trying to derail another thread that makes you uncomfortable?

And for the record, i agree with silverMK2

frgsinwntr wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

4M2A wrote:I did back up my claims that religions encourage people to feel superior.

No you didn't actually, but if it helps you to think you did, go for it. It would be easier to sleep better in a CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT but heh, to each theitr own.

Trying to derail another thread that makes you uncomfortable?

And for the record, i agree with silverMK2

Not at all. I would just like to hear about the religion who's central core belief is to be superior to others.

Frazzled wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

4M2A wrote:I did back up my claims that religions encourage people to feel superior.

No you didn't actually, but if it helps you to think you did, go for it. It would be easier to sleep better in a CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT but heh, to each theitr own.

Trying to derail another thread that makes you uncomfortable?

And for the record, i agree with silverMK2

Not at all. I would just like to hear about the religion who's central core belief is to be superior to others.

that is not what he said...

he said

4M2A wrote:
religions encourage people to feel superior.

No metion of any specific religion with a core doctrine of superiority anywhere in his arguement.

Its always helpful when you pull the full, real quite:

4M2A wrote on page 8:

Religion is about believing you're superior to others.

Frazzled wrote:Its always helpful when you pull the full, real quite:

4M2A wrote on page 8:

Religion is about believing you're superior to others.

again, there is no specific group with a core doctrine of superiority. that wasn't his arguement.

frgsinwntr wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Its always helpful when you pull the full, real quite:

4M2A wrote on page 8:

Religion is about believing you're superior to others.

again, there is no specific group with a core doctrine of superiority. that wasn't his arguement.

Fun because THATS WHAT HE FREAKING POSTED. I'll restate. "Religion is about believing you're superior to others."
Really, which religion is about believing you're superior to others? I must have missed that in my comparative religions class. It always seemed to have something to do with that life/death and how to act thing. I missed where Muhammad said "remember guys, its about believing you're superior to others."

Nuts.

Frazzled wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Its always helpful when you pull the full, real quite:

4M2A wrote on page 8:

Religion is about believing you're superior to others.

again, there is no specific group with a core doctrine of superiority. that wasn't his arguement.

Fun because THATS WHAT HE FREAKING POSTED. I'll restate. "Religion is about believing you're superior to others."
Really, which religion is about believing you're superior to others? I must have missed that in my comparative religions class. It always seemed to have something to do with that life/death and how to act thing. I missed where Muhammad said "remember guys, its about believing you're superior to others."

Nuts.

he readdresses it here. I understood what he was saying before.

4M2A wrote:I did back up my claims that religions encourage people to feel superior.

They aren't going to say it outright as it's not really going to earn them much suport but almost all religions have some kind of "live your life in a certain way because thats what god wants". They are claiming their way is better, and that it can be proved because god said so. Why do religions try to convert people if they don't believe their beliefs are superior. How is saying to someone "you're going to hell" not seeing them as inferior? The bible has lots of cases of suporting christians over non christians yet you say it doesn't see them as superior.

Rodgers- we have actual proof that life can exist. If that conditions were right for life here and there are billions of other planets, the chance of other life isn't that low. It gets higher when you consider that live adapts to its surroundings. It might be nothing like anything on earth but probabillity supports the existance of other life.

We have no reason to believe that god exists. Human faith and 2000 year old opinions aren't evidence. Doesn't mean you can't believe them but saying there is equal evidence isn't really true.

How is telling people they're going to hell and you aren't because you are the chosen few not acting superior?

Because again he's wrong. You're mistakjng cause for effect. Most religions teach to follow their way and better things will happen tfor the believers or that believers should act that way. If believers don't follow that way then things may happen.

If you're not a believer you're not even fething part of the conversation.

If you think that makes followers of the Book superior, hey thats your problem not mine. Sort your own issues out.

Preferably in a shiny new CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!

Throughly shut down. Then again, Frazzled WAS tap dancing around several points made by Fafnir and Dogma.

At least, this is the impression I got when he purposely picked the argument he did. "If you're not a believer you're not even fething part of the conversation. If you think that makes followers of the Book superior, hey thats your problem not mine. Sort your own issues out."

So critics shouldn't be given voice? I also don't see how correlating a believer's sense of inherent salvation and a feeling of moral superiority is somehow a personal issue with the person makign such a correlation.

The Airman wrote:Throughly shut down. Then again, Frazzled WAS tap dancing around several points made by Fafnir and Dogma.

At least, this is the impression I got when he purposely picked the argument he did. "If you're not a believer you're not even fething part of the conversation. If you think that makes followers of the Book superior, hey thats your problem not mine. Sort your own issues out."

So critics shouldn't be given voice? I also don't see how correlating a believer's sense of inherent salvation and a feeling of moral superiority is somehow a personal issue with the person makign such a correlation.

1. Dogma is a blocked user for me.
2. No, you shouldn't. Its their conversation. To be part of their conversation you have to be a member of their club.

Frazzled- why would you get benefits if god didn't like you more for being good. Christianity whether it admits it or not views people who follow its rules as better.

How can you say saying "god supports the way I live my life but not the way you live yours" isn't believing yourself superior.

4M2A wrote:Frazzled- why would you get benefits if god didn't like you more for being good. Christianity whether it admits it or not views people who follow its rules as better.

How can you say saying "god supports the way I live my life but not the way you live yours" isn't believing yourself superior.

Jeez you can't even get that right. Christianity views Christians as saved. Thats like at least X2 better than merely better.

What we're saying is following God is like breathing. Its not that we're better, we're just going to make it longer than the people who hold their breath.

Agnd again. If you're an atheist it shouldn't mean squat to you. You're just worm food anyway.

We are discussing what religious people think which is completely unrelated to whether I am affected.

Two things I am sure are true about christianity.
1- God is all powerful and knows the truth about everything.
2. People who follow the morals of the bible go to heaven.

So God has the power to save everybody but he is choosing you not us because of the way you act. Now being god that means he knows the truth- What we are doing must be wrong.

There are lots of comments in the bible that make it clear "sinners" are inferior.

4M2A wrote:We are discussing what religious people think which is completely unrelated to whether I am affected.

Two things I am sure are true about christianity.
1- God is all powerful and knows the truth about everything.
2. People who follow the morals of the bible go to heaven.

So God has the power to save everybody but he is choosing you not us because of the way you act. Now being god that means he knows the truth- What we are doing must be wrong.

There are lots of comments in the bible that make it clear "sinners" are inferior.

No, again thats your problem not mine. Its means we're saved and you're ed. WE're not superior, we just got on the lifeboat and you said "what ocean?"

The problem it seems... is the definition of "feeling superior"



Can we get a definition of it?

4M2A wrote:Two things I am sure are true about christianity.
1- God is all powerful and knows the truth about everything.
2. People who follow the morals of the bible go to heaven.

#2 is wrong. Or, at best, a misstatement of the basic tenets of Christianity.

4M2A wrote:So God has the power to save everybody but he is choosing you not us because of the way you act. Now being god that means he knows the truth- What we are doing must be wrong.

There are lots of comments in the bible that make it clear "sinners" are inferior.

Can you provide a reference for this? The Christian Bible tends to indicate exactly the opposite.

Frazzled wrote:
Not at all. I would just like to hear about the religion who's central core belief is to be superior to others.

No you aren't. If you were actually interested in an answer, instead of trolling and thread derailment, you wouldn't have half the people posting here on ignore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:Because again he's wrong. You're mistakjng cause for effect. Most religions teach to follow their way and better things will happen tfor the believers or that believers should act that way. If believers don't follow that way then things may happen.

If you're not a believer you're not even fething part of the conversation.

That is utter nonsense. If the statement is "better thing will happen for believers" then the word "better" must be stated in reference to something else, which is obviously nonbelievers.

Stating that nonbelievers are not part of the conversation, if the conversation is phrased as presented by Frazzled, is absolutely wrong.

dogma wrote:No you aren't. If you were actually interested in an answer, instead of trolling and thread derailment, you wouldn't have half the people posting here on ignore.

At least he can't just lock the thread any more