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DeathReaper wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:1) Using an ability from reserve is not disallowed anywhere in the rules.
2) You are given permission by the rule "if your army includes...."
3) There is no rule specifically disallowing it.

If it were disallowed, then it would need specific permission for the ability to work from reserve, and I would agree with you. As there is no rule denying permission, and one giving a general permission - it is allowed.

By that line of thinking Psychic Communion works whilst in reserve. Or Gate of Inifnity.

Remember it is a permissive ruleset. It must say you can do something for it to be allowed. Therefore you may only enter play from reserves, and anything else specifically allowed, if you are in reserves.

It doesn't say I can't is not valid.

He doesn't understand permissive ruleset as shown by using the,

"It doesn't say I can't so I can."

I will say that his rules interpretation is consistent if you read the other threads he has posted his interpretation. It is just that he is consistently wrong. He reads a rule and immediately looks to see how far he can stretch it without any rules backing. At least with Nos there is an actual discussion based on rules, not on a wishlist of what he wants the rules to read.

Done with this and the others.

Consistent inconsistency, I like it - almost GW like

Brother Ramses wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:1) Using an ability from reserve is not disallowed anywhere in the rules.
2) You are given permission by the rule "if your army includes...."
3) There is no rule specifically disallowing it.

If it were disallowed, then it would need specific permission for the ability to work from reserve, and I would agree with you. As there is no rule denying permission, and one giving a general permission - it is allowed.

By that line of thinking Psychic Communion works whilst in reserve. Or Gate of Inifnity.

Remember it is a permissive ruleset. It must say you can do something for it to be allowed. Therefore you may only enter play from reserves, and anything else specifically allowed, if you are in reserves.

It doesn't say I can't is not valid.

He doesn't understand permissive ruleset as shown by using the,

"It doesn't say I can't so I can."

I will say that his rules interpretation is consistent if you read the other threads he has posted his interpretation. It is just that he is consistently wrong. He reads a rule and immediately looks to see how far he can stretch it without any rules backing. At least with Nos there is an actual discussion based on rules, not on a wishlist of what he wants the rules to read.

Done with this and the others.

Its the opposite: You are given permission to do something. The part where it says "If your army includes Imotekh..." No rule takes away that permission. So it works while in reserve, while Imotekh is embarked, while he's in terrain, in subsequent turns regardless of his future state in the game.

Perhaps I'm not explaining it well enough for you.

Where is the permission for Imotekh to roll the dice while in reserve?

Perhaps you're not fnding that rule well enough yet - or are there some more inconvenient words you would like to ignore? So far you're ignoring the FAQ telling you imotekh rolls the dice, anything more you want to avoid because it makes your argument null?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Where is the permission for Imotekh to roll the dice while in reserve?

Perhaps you're not fnding that rule well enough yet - or are there some more inconvenient words you would like to ignore? So far you're ignoring the FAQ telling you imotekh rolls the dice, anything more you want to avoid because it makes your argument null?

Permission is given by Imotekhs inclusion in the army just as are many other abilities across other codexes.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:Consistent inconsistency, I like it - almost GW like

yes just like permission to roll dice for lightning strikes, but not to see if the Nightfight rules stay in effect. Consistently inconsistent.

Where is the specific permission to roll dice while in reserve?

Specific permission - you know what that means, right?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Where is the specific permission to roll dice while in reserve?

Specific permission - you know what that means, right?

No specific permission is required without specific prohibition - a general allowance is enough.

Example: can a jetbike turboboost if it is in area terrain? No specific allowance is needed since it is not prohibited. The general rule says jetbikes may turboboost.

Has "your army included Imotekh?". Yes? Then proceed with the rest of the rule.

That gives you night fighting turn 1. Now when you come to roll the dice, on Imo's behalf, find permission to do so.

You need specific permission to do anything while in reserve.

nosferatu1001 wrote:That gives you night fighting turn 1. Now when you come to roll the dice, on Imo's behalf, find permission to do so.

You need specific permission to do anything while in reserve.

NIghtfight and rolling for lightning - turn 1.

Permission is included in the rule.

Where is permission to roll while in reserves, to continue nightfighting?

And round and round we go. Which rules will you make up / ignore this time?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Where is permission to roll while in reserves, to continue nightfighting?

And round and round we go. Which rules will you make up / ignore this time?

Where is the permission to roll for lightning strikes either?

Imotekh isnt the one rolling for the strikes, unlike to continue night fighting.

Keep up, I know you like to ignore the FAQ but this was sorted many,many pages ago

nosferatu1001 wrote:Imotekh isnt the one rolling for the strikes, unlike to continue night fighting.

Keep up, I know you like to ignore the FAQ but this was sorted many,many pages ago

Your argument is totally unraveled.

Shucks, I guess it is! I will jsut take the word of someone who doesnt treat the FAQs as rules with no explanation whatsoever!

Oh wait, I wont. Can you please, for once, actually use some rules? I know you dont like doing so, but it would make arguing with you slightly less pointless

nos, you seem to have forgotten that bit of advice: Never get into an argument with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level, and then beat you with experience.

Please note if anyone feels like I'm implying they are an idiot, I do apologize, however, if you don't post actual rules when requested, well...

Personal insults are not allowed on this site. Please avoid this in future or your account will be suspended. Thanks ~Manchu

True enough. Cant beat that level of ability

nosferatu1001 wrote:Shucks, I guess it is! I will jsut take the word of someone who doesnt treat the FAQs as rules with no explanation whatsoever!

Oh wait, I wont. Can you please, for once, actually use some rules? I know you dont like doing so, but it would make arguing with you slightly less pointless

How about start by not making gak up?

I have never said the FAQs are invalid. I use them in games as every player of 40k should. I just don't assign them undo weight as you have. I don't make up rules to justify my argument, like you do.

You and the Mods can decide to create what ever Tenets you wish to argue on these forums, it does not however, hold any water in actual game play or at tournament.

FAQs give specific answers to specific questions. Not broadly rewriting the game so that Nos and his crew can go on Dakka and Bully people into agreeing with them, using no basis whatsoever to support the gak you are spouting.

You have even agreed that EVERY aspect of LotS is unowned by Imotekh (except the one part you continue to argue about continuing the storm.) That is inconsistent, goes entirely against the RAW of the Codex, is unaltered by any FAQ, and isn't SUPPORTED by the INAT. You can choose to ignore the INAT, but it originates FROM HERE and we use it. Why not start a Forum for the tournaments you claim to run in the UK, where you make up rules to support your arguments. I'm guessing attendance won't be anywhere near the tournaments that use the INAT FAQ.

The Errata have the same level of 'authority' as the main rules, as they effectively modify the published material. They are 'hard' material. It is a good idea to read them and be aware of their existence, but luckily there are very few of them for each book.

The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'. They are, of course, useful when you play a pick-up game against someone you don't know, or at tournaments (i.e. when you don't have a set of common 'house rules' with the other player). However, if you disagree with some answers and prefer to change them in your games and make your own house rules with your friends, that's fine. In fact we encourage you to shape the game around your needs and your taste. We firmly believe that wargaming is about two (or more!) people creating a gaming experience they are both going to enjoy. In other words, you might prefer to skip the FAQs altogether and instead always apply the good old 'roll a dice' rule whenever you meet a problematic situation.

The above is RAW from GW.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Where is the specific permission to roll dice while in reserve?

Specific permission - you know what that means, right?

No specific permission is required without specific prohibition - a general allowance is enough.

So you are saying that Psychic Communion can be used whilst in reserve?

Since a model is allowed to cast Psychic powers, being that "general allowance is enough"?

DeathReaper wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Where is the specific permission to roll dice while in reserve?

Specific permission - you know what that means, right?

No specific permission is required without specific prohibition - a general allowance is enough.

So you are saying that Psychic Communion can be used whilst in reserve?

Since a model is allowed to cast Psychic powers, being that "general allowance is enough"?

Is it an ability being granted by a Character inclusion in the army? Or active while the model is alive?

I don't know what you lot are arguing about but please do it politely.

NecronLord3 wrote:
You and the Mods can decide to create what ever Tenets you wish to argue on these forums, it does not however, hold any water in actual game play or at tournament.

The tenets on the forum create the framework within which we discuss the rules. I am getting a bit bored with the constant insistence that they hold more or less or some other predetermined value that you have assigned them.

If you do not want to stick to the tenets, then do not discuss the rules on this forum. If you do not plan to use these forums to help stay within the rules (whatever they may be), then why are you bothering to contribute at all?

I said this before, you are consistently, and effectively undermining the argument of those in favor of Imotekh's ability working with your off topic, irrelevant and groundless arguments about FAQ's, Erratas, et cetera. The line of discussion you have chosen to pursue just makes you look like you are grasping at straws and that you cannot find a way to, within the context of the rules as defined by these forums, refute the points of others.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Oh wait, I wont. Can you please, for once, actually use some rules? I know you dont like doing so, but it would make arguing with you slightly less pointless

As you apparently missed it, please provide some ACTUAL rules for the first time this thread. Not made up rules. Not rules that ignore the FAQ which STATES Imotekh rolls the dice - but some actual rules.

Apparently instead of giving rules you prefer to directly attack the poster - rule number 1.

NecronLord3 wrote:How about start by not making gak up?

I have never said the FAQs are invalid. I use them in games as every player of 40k should. I just don't assign them undo weight as you have. I don't make up rules to justify my argument, like you do.

Well, you make up that the FAQ hasnt changed the rules - it has. The roll for night fight is rolled by Imothek. It says so in the FAQ. The FAQ YOU have decided doesnt say that.

NecronLord3 wrote:You and the Mods can decide to create what ever Tenets you wish to argue on these forums, it does not however, hold any water in actual game play or at tournament.

What, FAQs dont apply in tournaments? Lol. Oh, and "I' did nothing towards the tenets, which you consistently ignore.

NecronLord3 wrote:FAQs give specific answers to specific questions.

Wrong, they give all sorts of answers to all sorts of questions. Scout move smoking / moving apples to more than just BA. Or do you just not et Vendettas get cover saves for going Flat Out in the scout phase?

NecronLord3 wrote:Not broadly rewriting the game so that Nos and his crew can go on Dakka and Bully people into agreeing with them, using no basis whatsoever to support the gak you are spouting.

Apparently you cant stop swearing. Well done, you gain +1 internets!

You have yet to provide any actual rules, and the last 3 posts have yet to provide any actual argument, instead directly attacking posters. Well done.

NecronLord3 wrote:You have even agreed that EVERY aspect of LotS is unowned by Imotekh (except the one part you continue to argue about continuing the storm.) That is inconsistent, goes entirely against the RAW of the Codex, is unaltered by any FAQ, and is SUPPORTED by the INAT.

I dont care, one jot, what the INAT says. It is not in general use in the UK, is not a source of rules on this board, and I dont agree with a LOT of the rulings as they often change rules under the guise of "clarification"

So, please stop bringing up the INAT, as you have been repeatedly asked.

I have stated that Imotekh rolls for the continuation of night fight, which IS stated in the FAQ that you ignore because it destroys your argument. Entirely. Instead you pretend the FAQ arent RAW, or that what is plainly written doesnt actually mean it, etc. All to save your (clearly) precious necrons from suffering one minor downgrade in ability.

Your inabiltiy to argue from at least a mostly unpartisan basis destroys any credibility you have when arguing about Necrons. Totally.

NecronLord3 wrote: You can choose to ignore the INAT, but it originates FROM HERE and we use it.

Whos is "we"? I dont care if YOU use it - you are not me, and I will never play at your club. It also doesnt matter that it originates from here - as the tenets say, it isnt a source of information.

You struggle to differentiate between actual arguments and irrelevant tripe.

NecronLord3 wrote:Why not start a Forum for the tournaments you claim to run in the UK, where you make up rules to support your arguments. I'm guessing attendance won't be anywhere near the tournaments that use the INAT FAQ.

What, like the tournament here you mean? I'm sorry, but you are just digging yourself even deeper - I DO run tournaments as a member of Spiky club, and we DONT use INAT. I also go to quite a number of tournaments, and they dont use INAT either. They do, however, all treat the FAQs the same way this forum does, and you dont - as actual rules. We also have fine attendence, thanks for the vote of confidence.

Also - why do i need to start a forum to discuss rules, when I'm actually following the rules of this forum?

NL not understanding what "RAW" means wrote:The above is RAW from GW.

No, it isnt, as those arent game rules. You do understand what "RAW" stands for, and what rules actually are ,yes?

NecronLord3 wrote:Is it an ability being granted by a Character inclusion in the army? Or active while the model is alive?

It does not specify.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

No, it isnt, as those arent game rules. You do understand what "RAW" stands for, and what rules actually are ,yes?

I do. You clearly do not.


We play by GW's rules, not nosferatu1001's illogical inconsistent and dis-proven arguments on dakka.


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DeathReaper wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:Is it an ability being granted by a Character inclusion in the army? Or active while the model is alive?

It does not specify.

Then you've answered your own question.

Imotekh's ability does not specify either...

NecronLord3 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

No, it isnt, as those arent game rules. You do understand what "RAW" stands for, and what rules actually are ,yes?

I do. You clearly do not.

Gosh, you are funny!

You posted up an explanation of how GW presents rules documents. You then claimed they are, in and of themselves, Rules. Which is SOOOOO laughably wrong I just cant believe you continued posting...

NecronLord3 wrote:[We play by GW's rules, not nosferatu1001's illogical inconsistent and dis-proven arguments on dakka.

Erm - you do realise you are yet to post any actual rules, yes? Despite being asked?

What is illogical is your inability to read a FAQ and apply it to the situation.

NecronLord3 wrote:
Then you've answered your own question.

Neither does Imotekh specify he can roll while in reserve. Doh! Guess you're still wrong!

DeathReaper wrote: Imotekh's ability does not specify either...

It does. "If your Army includes Imotekh the Stormlord..."

NecronLord3 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote: Imotekh's ability does not specify either...

It does. "If your Army includes Imotekh the Stormlord..."

That is all well and good for the night fighting rules to be in effect, but Furthermore Imotekh gets to roll to keep it going, something he can not do if he is in reserve, since it does not specify.

NecronLord3 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote: Imotekh's ability does not specify either...

It does. "If your Army includes Imotekh the Stormlord..."

So that specifies Reserves then?

Strange, I cant see the word "Reserves" anywhere in there. Maybe you could point it out?

Or are you still unsure what "specify" means?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Gosh, you are funny!

You posted up an explanation of how GW presents rules documents. You then claimed they are, in and of themselves, Rules. Which is SOOOOO laughably wrong I just cant believe you continued posting...

The rules from GW come in the form of the Rule Books and the Codexs. The rules for how to apply Errata and Frequently asked Questions are detailed in the documents I posted, which you are ignoring.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Erm - you do realise you are yet to post any actual rules, yes? Despite being asked?

You have posted nothing which alters the RAW of the codex. The FAQ allows you to choose not to make the roll, and use the Chronometron when attached to Imotekh's unit. Nothing more, and nothing that alters the RAW of the codex.

nosferatu1001 wrote:What is illogical is your inability to read a FAQ and apply it to the situation.

What is illogical is you making up a bunch of rules that do not EXIST, and pawning them off as RAW.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Neither does Imotekh specify he can roll while in reserve. Doh! Guess you're still wrong!

Right, thank you for reiterating the RAW. Since Imotekh isn't rolling YOU are and it is an ability granted to the ARMY by Imotekh's inclusion.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote: Imotekh's ability does not specify either...

It does. "If your Army includes Imotekh the Stormlord..."

So that specifies Reserves then?

Strange, I cant see the word "Reserves" anywhere in there. Maybe you could point it out?

Or are you still unsure what "specify" means?

Permission is given on turn 1 by RAW. If you are permitted to use it from reserve on turn 1 there is nothing disallowing it's use in subsequent turns.

RAW.