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I love it, but with it you should have a minor weapons buff...

maybe a 5++?

I'm not so keen, it... fits but its weird, 300pts (200 basic + 100 upgrade) to give up all your HQ options and gain NO BUFFS WHATSOEVER! I'm not so sure. But it would be fun to try something.

Yeah, especially since they way it's written it takes up 2 slots (1 HQ & 1 HS)
The upgrade needs to be less expensive with minor buff, or stay the same cost And have a MASSIVE/lots of minor buff(s)

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Yeah, especially since they way it's written it takes up 2 slots (1 HQ & 1 HS)
The upgrade needs to be less expensive with minor buff, or stay the same cost And have a MASSIVE/lots of minor buff(s)

Agreed. Perhaps an Orders system like IG has to represent the Master Programmes instruction, only affects Canoptek units

That would be cool and fluffy.
Now we need to come up with what the orders do if we go down that route...

We'll get told to shush cos it's too OP and that defeats the point, but we can try. Probably there would be a redeployment/movement one, a shooting one and an assault one. Plus a summoning thing that can move units to AND from the command centre

Wow, ok, that's already more consideration than I expected.

Bear in mind that it is making an AV14 4HP tank your warlord, and what kind of existential pain that is going to bring your opponents.

Honestly, I wouldn't go the "orders" route. That's an IG thing and it seems wrong to steal it. I would give it some tech buffs. Ideas;

Ghost Beacon; The presence of the Canoptek Command provides an invaluable relay station for communications and coordination for the Canoptek systems. Identify a location within 24" of this unit. Units targeting that point with Deep Strike this round do not scatter.

Tomb Gate: Friendly, unengaged, non-vehicle Necron unit may Embark within the Monolith, as embarking a vehicle moving at combat speed, and are immediately placed in reserve.

Wraithlight: Friendly units ignore the effects of the Night Fighting, Stealth, and Shrouded special rules against enemies within 12” of the Command node.

Well, the portal would cost 50 points at least, 75 points at most (I feel)

Also, for simplicities sake, I'd make it a HQ choice full stop.

So (Mitranekh the Omniscient's route):
HQ
Canoptek Command Monolith...335pts (After wrting everything up, I felt 300pts was too cheap)

BS 4
F 14
S 14
R 14

HP 4

Type: Heavy, Skimmer, Tank

Special Rules: Deep Stike, Living Metal, Canoptek Command, Skyfire, Interceptor

Wargear: Four gauss flux arcs, particle whip, eternity gate


Canoptek Command:
An army that includes a model with this rule may only include Canoptek units (Wraiths, Spyders, Scarabs, Pariahs). It must be your warlord. In addition, it may use its Eternity Gate to redeploy friendly non-vehicle units. Any unit with a model within 2" of the model's Eternity Gate may deploy by deep strike anywhere within 24" of the Canoptek Command Monolith's position.

In addition, it can issue 1 command per turn.
To issue a command, pick a Canoptek unit within 24" of the Canoptek Command Monolith at the start of the movement phase. This unit must pass a Leadership test. If it passes, it gains one of the following effects:
-The unit has the Fleet special rule
-The unit may run and shoot or shoot and run. All shots fired are snapshots
-The unit may move 6+D3" in the movement phase



Maybe?




Though after reading silentone2k's post above (was typing when you posted so I didn't see it) I prefer his approach. Seems less OP.

Of course, on reflection, pretty much all my actual suggestions are far more useful for a Normcron army than a Canoptek army. Canopteks are more close fire/CC, and don't have DS... Merr.
Instead;

Wrath of the Tomb; Canoptek Scarabs are a Troop Choice.

Infinite Gate; Once per turn the Command node may give a Canoptek unit in reserve the Deep Strike special rule. That unit must target a location within 18" of the Monolith. The Monolith may use its Eternity Gate normally in the same turn.

Tomb Gate (as above)

I dunno.

I love the idea, but it does need work.

Basically, we'd be creating Skynet.
... for an army of "Terminators".

Now think about it along those lines and see what kind of rules would fit.

Well, it is still the idea stage, so of course it needs work!

I think silentone2k's way is the one to go, less clunky than orders.

Ooh, just got an idea.
Guys, how about this-

Canoptek Warrior Drones
Only available with The Master Control Pyramid (M.C.P.™)
Same stat line as normal Warriors, but replace Reanimation Protocols with Fearless.

(Basically, the M.C.P.™ making Warrior Drones would be the Necron equivalent of Typhus making Zombie Cultists)


This would be both fluffy (like that one tomb world mentioned in the Ward codex that reprogrammed all the Necron to be mindless drones. So now, instead of relying on sentience, it just mass produces automatons it can remotely control (very tempted to make a function which allows the inclusion of a Lord with Trazyn like come-back-by-replacing-a-different-model resiliency, so as to have some sort of Avatar for the M.C.P.™ to enact its will with, ala Mass Effect Reaper "Assuming direct control") Plus, this way we finally get our REAL Skynet Terminator army) and functional (Warriors suck in combat because they get swept easily. Cultists are good because they can hold an objective without having to worry about being swept. If you had a fearless unit that had RP, that would be broken. But simply fearless robots? That's not so bad, right? Plus, it would give us the option for troops without resorting to using one of the other Canoptek units as troops (which might be seen as OP).

There is also a reference in the current codex to something very like this being a standard thing anyway; the MCP runs the Warriors as drones until enough C&C units are awake to take over control. Could fluff out the loss of RP as Control simply removing damaged individuals to preserve resources... akin to the old "phase out."

That's really clever because it means we have a unit that can hold objectives (Scarabs can't cos they're Swarms) and allow players to create the Severed Worlds (Sarkoni Emperor anyone?). But how far would the MCP's control stretch-just on Warriors or to others like Immortals/Tomb Blades/other?

Nah, gotta keep it simple.
Typhus doesn't get to create Zombie Plague Marines, etc., we shouldn't get to have Drone Immortals, etc.
(the MCP sees the Drones as mass produced cost efficient labor for dirty work, not caring if it loses another one under a toppling Pylon, where as for more specialized jobs it relies on the specialist Canoptek units).

For the "Host Platform" (the direct controlled/possessed body that becomes the Avatar for the MCP), perhaps make it an Overlord, only with 1 wound and no RP. The catch will be, when it dies, roll a D6. On a 2+, the MCP Overlord comes back as another possesed Warrior (akin to Trazyn's power, only instead of being random, it can be "any unengaged Warrior Drone of the players choice"). When it dies a second time, it can come back on a 3+. And so on and so on until the 5th repossession (a 6+... so highly unlikely). After that, no more.

Guys, you have no idea how bad I want an AI controlled Necron army.
Not only will it be extremely fluffy, but could be seriously fun to play.

I agree I just thought I'd put it out there. I'd also fancy an AI/MCP army my dynasty has a Severed World as one of its fringeworlds and I'd love to use it. The 'Host' OL would be good as well and it's not too unkillable unlike Trazyn can be if you spam Royal Courts and Lychguard. Should there be perks for the Canoptek units eg Scarabs holding objectives? Besides a spammed out Monolith there aren't many tabletop reasons for taking it.

I'd love to see those kinds of abilities/wargear be applicable to Crypteks. The ability to make the lowest level Canopteks scoring, more common, repair them, etc fits with their fluff of being the keepers of the Canoptek systems. Though a similar note is; how often do you see Cryptek Warlords now if you can get an Overlord and get up to 5 without costing an FO slot.

I would like to make sure that we aren't making Monoliths spammable. That's part of the reason I made them 2 FO slots, they're limited in lower point games by cost and in higher point games by FO slots. Throwing up to 5 monoliths on the table seems a little... intense? excessive? (OP.)



For another tangent;

I agree Monoliths cannot be spammed because in 6th AV14 is a pain in the ++deleted by Inquisition++ (unless you are a cron thanks to gauss). As for the C'tan thing... Idk, its clever and fluffy (well, ish) but I don't see people taking it if it's anymore than a Shard because you can get an OL and RC to do half the work and a Shard for the rest, meaning that you get more flexibility, and it's as powerful as a Shard (Idk how powerful that is I don't use them but in this era of MC's there are better)

Hi guys, I've just seen this, this looks great!

Is there some way I can catch up quickly? (10 pages of posts is a little daunting - but can do it if that's the best way).

The Canoptek Warrior Drones are a brilliant idea. What happens if the MCP gets killed though? Do all drones just die (no command loop anymore?). Other alternatives:

a) Units within 12" of an HQ or Canoptek Unit (excluding Warrior Drones) (maybe cryptek?) able to operate normally. All other units revert to dormant state but will auto attack an enemy unit within 6".
b) Roll vs Initiative. If passed then operate normally, otherwise dormant

Re a cryptek buff, what about night fight? We only have a couple of units that can shoot more than 24" anyway, so not like that would give us an overwhelming advantage.

MarkCron wrote:
The Canoptek Warrior Drones are a brilliant idea. What happens if the MCP gets killed though? Do all drones just die (no command loop anymore?).

It would probably be best to have it something along the lines of what happens to the Tyranid when they lose synapse.
An initiative-test-or-go-into-standby-mode (defensive reactions only) wouldn't be a bad idea.

I like the idea of shutdown, but it sort of treads on nid toes. As for Night Fighting as a Cryptek buff we already have the Solar Pulse for that. I think for the MCP death thing it could be cannot move but shoots at the nearest visible enemy (the current dex has a bit of fluff saying they settle into a guard routine without any orders)

My bad, I meant Night Vision - really, advanced metal robots that can't see in the dark?

Re the shutdown, some form of stasis or automated program is quite fluffy I think, as is the idea of having Canoptek units being able to control them. If anything it fits better than with the Nids.

AV14 and 4 HP isn't OP imho. That's only 1 HP more than a landraider and they really aren't a problem for anyone with drop pods/melta or haywire. So, anyone taking it will need some fairly good buffs or it won't be worth 335 points.

Well atm the gate can work 2 ways in terms of the corridor, it gains interceptor, DS protection in 24" and removes 'hiding' rules within 6/12", as well as buffing Canoptek units (maybe) and its still an AV14 4HP tank with particle whip and intercepting flux arcs AND the buffed eternity gate. Plus it's a change from the OL/RC era but it can't be TOO OP or no-one will take a 'normal' cron army. Hence its so pricey (I think)

Hmm... new write up of the rules (for the Monolith-thing)...

HQ (0-1)
Master Command Monolith...300pts

BS 4
F 14
S 14
R 14
HP 4

Type: Heavy, Skimmer, Tank

Special Rules: Deep Strike, Living Metal, Master-Program
Wargear: Four gauss interceptor arcs, particle whip, infinity gate

Gauss Interceptor Arc:
Range: 24"
Str: 5
AP: 4
Type: Heavy 3, Gauss*, Interceptor, Skyfire
*A Gauss interceptor arc can be fired at a different target unit to other weapons on the vehicle (including other gauss interceptor arcs) subject to the normal rules for shooting.

Infinity Gate:
An infinity gate follows all the rules for an eternity gate.
In addition, a unit may 'embark' upon a Master Command Monolith treating the infinity gate as an access point.
A unit that does so enter ongoing deep strike reserves.

Master-Program:
All Canoptek units except Scarabs (Wraiths, Spyders, Warrior-Drones, Pariahs) are scoring units, if they weren't already. Scarabs, instead, are troops choices.
If this unit is destroyed, Warrior-Drones must immediately go to ground. However, they may fire in the shooting phase, treated as snap firing.
Pariahs may not move, run, shoot or assault until an enemy unit moves within 12" of them.
Spyders must move towards the nearest friendly vehicle, and follow it. They cannot assault an enemy unit unless that unit is assault the closest friendly vehicle to it. They may shoot as normal but may not run.
Wraiths must move towards and assault the closest enemy unit. The must shoot or run towards this unit.
Scarabs must move towards and assault the closest unit (friend or foe!) and for every two wounds they cause in combat, the unit regains a wound. If all models in the unit have their maximum number of wounds, a new scarab base is added to the unit for up to every three excess wounds. Repeat this process until no excess wounds remain. This may take the unit above it's starting size. (read the fluff for scarabs )


Options:
May replace particle whip for a ghost beacon...5pts


Ghost Beacon:
Friendly units that deep strike within 18" of a model with a ghost beacon do not scatter.

I've been thinking about the AI controller thing, and in my mind the Master command monolith is a huge thing that dominates the field, the absolute centre of attention. But it's sphere of control is quite small, based around it's own sensor arrays. It's not very mobile. With this view, I ended up going at this differently - see below. I've tried to cost it appropriately, but in my mind this unit has a 2 turn life at best. I toyed with the idea of being able to self repair, but that seemed OP.

Hope something from below is useful.

HQ (0-1)
Master Command Monolith...300pts

BS 4
F 14
S 14
R 14
HP 4

Unique

Type: Heavy, Tank

Special Rules: Living Metal, Robotic Commitment, Automated Replenishment, Misson Focus, Sensor Analysis, Co-ordinated defence, Generated camouflage
Wargear: Four Gauss Flayers, particle whip, infinity gate


Infinity Gate:
An infinity gate follows all the rules for an eternity gate.
In addition, a unit may 'embark' upon a Master Command Monolith treating the infinity gate as an access point.
A unit that does so enter ongoing reserves. Units coming in from reserve may deploy through an Infinity Gate, using the Deep strike rules if it does so.

Robotic Commitment : Necron Warrior units in the army gain the Stubborn special rule but cannot use Reanimation Protocols. This rule applies even if the MCM is wrecked or destroyed

Automated Replenishment : Necron Warriors units that embark on the MCM through the Infinity Gate add D3 Warriors to the unit. This cannot take the unit above starting size.

Mission Focus : The MCM has its own sensor arrays that capture gigantic amounts of information as well as receiving information from every Necron model about the battle and battlefield. From this, the MCM determines the optimum roles for each unit. Prior to Deployment, the Necron Player rolls a D3 and nominates that many non vehicle units as troop choices. Normal FOC restrictions apply.

Sensor Analysis : The MCM, plus all units within 6", have the Interceptor, Skyfire and Night Vision special rules.

Coordinated Defence : The MCM can shoot each weapon at a different target.

Generated Camouflage : The MCM is covered with adaptive panels, enabling the MCM to blend into the scenery. The MCM has the shrouded special rule.

Options:
May replace Gauss Flayers with Tesla Destructors....40pts
May replace Particle Whip with Death Ray.....50 pts
May take ghost beacon...5pts


Ghost Beacon:
Friendly units that deep strike within 18" of a model with a ghost beacon do not scatter.

Imo I prefer how Matt Kingsley did it, because it can sacrifice fire for the benefit of the whole army, and I like the name Infinity Gate. However I don't think the flux arcs should be able to fire all over the place if they have interceptor AND skyfire because otherwise no-one will DS within 24" or bring 2+ flyers and get bored of playing it. MarkCron somehow I don't think a Death ray or Tesla Destructors was the right idea, tbh I would leave the weapon alone in terms of buffing it, though if we did the Doomsday cannon would be more suitable because its just a better blast weapon

Ok, just interceptor then.

Also... Realised I made a mistake with the scarabs, should be for every 2 unsaved wounds caused.
Actually, maybe I should simplify it... And make it for every unit the scarabs destroy in combat, the units regains 2D6 wounds, with excess wounds turnin into scarab bases.

I don't think @Mit was referring to the Gauss Interceptors, he was referring to the build I posted which had Flayers but a special rule giving Skyfire and Interceptor.

I appreciate that we don't want to create OP units, but the problem with the build we have is that most people won't play it, because of the whole hull points thing. Getting 300 points of HQ wiped out turn 1 by a squad of tacs in a drop pod with melta isn't that attractive. Sure, I know that we can counter-deploy to prevent that, but even so it's a big risk.

Looking at it again, there is a big disadvantage if it dies, because not only do you lose 300 pts a big chunk of the rest of the army becomes useless or downright dangerous. How about:

a) Just allow Wraiths and Pariahs as troops choices (so similar to being able to take terminators as troops)
b) Warriors converted to Warrior Drones (similar to Anrakyr with Immortals)
c) If the MCM dies, Warrior Drones must head to nearest objective and GTG.

I like the Ghost Beacon name and idea, but in reality not sure how much use it will get. The only things that we have that are likely to DS are Deathmarks and Flayed ones. I wouldn't give up the whip for that.

... this is getting pretty close to OP, guys.
Let's scale it back a bit.

I REALLY don't think Scarabs should be scoring. It just doesn't feel right. I'm even kinda torn on Wraiths and Spyders. Let's just stick to Warriors (remember, balance means nerfs as well as buffs. Perhaps the downside to using an MCM as your HQ is that you're limited to just Warriors for troops... but the Warriors have Stubborn and Fearless, so that's not so bad!)

Mission Focus: I like the idea of an AI collecting tons of info to use to its strategic advantage, but using it to make non-troops into troops just seems like it doesn't fit. Perhaps granting it some kind of Creed-like power would work better. (like redeployment after set up, akin to Grand Illusion, or Reserve rerolls, or maybe even first turn deep strike, so long as the deep striking unit can only do so on your side of the table... I have this image of Creed playing chess against DeepBlue, and both of them being frustrated at not being able to out strategize each other).
Perhaps giving it offensive and defensive powers that it has to choose between each turn to use might be a good expression of the MCM's ability (similar to IG Orders/RipTide charging. You can do A this turn to increase offensive capabilities, but it will leave you more vulnerable to attack, or you could do B this turn to increase defensive protocols, but that will significantly lessen offensive power, etc.).

And it should DEFINITELY not have the option to replace its weapons with Tesla Destructors or Deathrays!
We've got Sentry Pylons for that, the MCM doesn't have to be a juggernaut as well as a strategic powerhouse.

It probably should have IWND, though.


Basically, think about it like this: Skynet should be incredibly tough and resilient, but not the actual thing causing the damage. Its role is to DIRECT those things that will be doing the damage by using its vast reserves of information and computing power.
Think less "oh #$%&! Here it comes! We're all going to die!" and more "oh great, they've got a Control Monolith. We've gotta get rid of that thing if we want any chance of defeating this army... unfortunately for us, it's basically a heavily fortified self aware super computer... this is not going to be easy..."

I would agree with no Wraiths/Spyders/Scarab troops, but Pariahs could be because they aren't outright killy units more the supporters. IWND would work. I think the Ghost Beacon can be a good upgrade if we used @Matt's idea of using the infinity gate to put units in DS reserve.
For Mission Focus (we could do with re-writing the name it sounds like Vanilla Marines or Eldar or Tau) I'd say one a turn: either modify friendly reserve rolls, redeploy units like Grand Illusion, or raid its databanks for information about a foe which it transfers to a unit giving PE or something because they know how they work (that may be a tad OP)