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2016/08/20 05:40:17
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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 Manchu wrote:Oh man, Sisters flashing skin would be dumb indeed - outside of Repentia, where charging into battle protected only by your faith in the Emperor and the sincerity of your penance is the whole point.
And that contrast is precisely why Repentia are better as nude but for literally wearing their litany of crimes against the Emporer.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/20 05:40:32
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2016/08/20 05:50:14
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Works for me - and I think Jez could easily sculpt models "modest" enough under that design brief for GW to sell in their family-friendly stores.
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2016/08/20 06:00:01
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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All he has to do is bring the cover to life. Not that hard, really.
And it's not like GW can't do drapery - we've seen Dark Angels dresses, Ultramarines bathtowels, and a host of robes on the Fantasy side.
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2016/08/20 11:37:03
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Dispassionate Imperial Judge
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And my comments result in EXACTLY the argument I was saying GW would want to avoid!! I actually wasn't exhibiting a preference for the current design or the other, I was just thinking of it from a PR standpoint.
In the UK at least, GW stores are present on every town's high street, with models in the windows and big banners with artwork to support the current release. They have vastly more visibility than a small niche company (some of whom do make more sexualised models), and the people who see this publicity on their high street are, mostly, not gamers.
While the models themselves don't have high heels and you'd have to paint on the makeup, the artwork is different. At the moment, the imagery surrounding them is very fetish-y and sexualised, IMO.
If GW made other female ranges, they might be able to counterbalance that. The sisters might look a bit Catholic-BDSM-fantasy but then they would be in the same world as their more 'military' looking range of female Cadians for example. But, unfortunately, they don't.
For a large, publicly traded company - a well known high street retailer in the UK - to present the current Sisters imagery as practically their ONLY depiction of women is a PR nightmare waiting to happen.
So, I can totally see why they're not getting done - it's that or change the aethetic and risk annoying the last three pages of posters on this thread (and the fanbase they represent) who like the current imagery.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/08/20 13:49:51
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2016/08/20 11:49:46
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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 ArbitorIan wrote:If GW made other female ranges, they might be able to counterbalance that.
This seems like a good idea. Diversity and choice is never a bad thing.
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I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a  |
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2016/08/20 16:58:00
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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[MOD]
Solahma
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If you look around in the world of pop culture, sexy looking dudes and ladies are actually ... the norm. SoB are not pornographic by any stretch of the reasonable person's imagination. Even in this age of rather Victorian stodginess when it comes to the politics of sex, SoB would never get anything beyond the seconds-long glimpse mainstream media occasionally affords 40k and miniatures gaming generally. Dawn of War reached more people than White Dwarf ever will or could hope to, and there was no hue and cry when Soul Storm was release - at least not about the visual design of Sisters.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/08/20 17:06:18
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2016/08/20 17:14:39
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters
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Gargantuan Gargant
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2016/08/20 17:22:28
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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A lot of those are still better than the minis in terms of proportions, and certainly better than anything by Blanche. Also, one of them is an Inquisitor and does not have Sororitas power armor. In fact, the canoness mini you linked is kind of emblematic of the problem many people have with the boob-plates. They look more like gag-boobs or robo-girl-missiles than something crafted to be "shaped like a woman". If they were more subtle there'd be far fewer complaints about them.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/20 17:24:16
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2016/08/20 17:29:55
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
UK
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The Repentia aren't that much worse than something out of a Rhianna or Christina Aguilera video to be perfectly honest, or indeed any of the over sexualised action men of today's video games or movies. Sure they are scantily clad bdsm inspired torture women. But that's not exactly that bad in today's society.
Has anyone seen Return of the Jedi?
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2016/08/20 17:38:34
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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Manchu wrote:You must be new. Threads about SoB always bring out people who don't much care about the faction to tell their actual fans everything that is wrong with them and how to fix it - and they always want to talk about boobies.
Sort of. I usually end up over in Proposed Rules having arguments about how Acts of Faith should work. Automatically Appended Next Post:  adamsouza wrote:A woman in an outfit that is shaped like a woman is not Hypersexualised.
Honestly running off the in-universe logic I'm with Pouncey's point on the Decree Passive here. The outfits are there to make it obvious that they're female as a sort of sarcastic poke at the loophole under which they exist as an army in the first place.
If the models and the art got an update I doubt there would be much debate left on the subject. They look sexualized because the in-universe logic got buried in the 2nd-edition bizarrely over-the-top/comic-book art style, the models are the way they are because the designers wanted to try and ensure people could tell they were female from normal-play distance in an era of misshapen/exaggerated features.
I can point at newer coed WHFB elf kits where the female models manage to look female without looking unrealistically exaggerated as evidence that at least one of GW's sculptors has the skill to pull off a sensible redesign where they didn't have the skill to do it in 2e.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/20 18:02:42
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2016/08/20 18:35:38
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Warwick, Warwickshire, England, UK, NW Europe, Sol-3, Western Spiral Arm, Milky Way
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Good lord.
Well, just to add my tuppence ha'penny to the conversation: I really like the Sisters of Battle as they are. I think the models are excellent, in keeping with most of the 2nd Edition metal figures, and I think their aesthetic appearance is spot on - gothic, archaic, sinister, religious. These are not Catholic nuns, these are warriors of the God-Emperor, who fight with faith and fury. This shouldn't be changed, only improved, with more options - heads with wimples (as was suggested earlier), say.
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2016/08/20 23:48:39
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Hallowed Canoness
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 Azreal13 wrote:Well, looking at Dakka, there's you, Melissia, pretre and Hybrid Son of Whatyamacallit are pretty vocal.
Oxayotl. It was an ancient special character that was a chameleon skink. Kicked ass and took names.
Can't tell if trolling or serious. If it was serious, I will just say that focusing on one of the older picture on the subject, that is directly contradicted by literally every picture since then, including pictures from the very same 2nd edition codex, AND every miniature ever released, doesn't make much sense.
 Ashiraya wrote:I guess I would be okay with the boobplate if the armor did not also look so thin it may as well be metal-painted spandex.
Give me this (though it does not have to be as exosuit-ey) and I will be silent.
This looks good but I also really like some part of the current design. A good mix of both would be awesome.
Ashiraya wrote:For the third time, they will not stop being zealous warrior nuns in the service of a rich gothic sci-fi church just because they get better armor.
Whoa I never thought I would say that, but really Ashiraya gets Sisters of Battle much better than most posters in here  .
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2016/08/21 02:35:25
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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ArbitorIan wrote:If GW made other female ranges, they might be able to counterbalance that.
One could argue that Cadia has entire divisions composed entirely of female troops, that half of the entire Cadian military is female. Wearing their helmets and armor, there is no way to determine the gender of the Trooper, Tanker or Pilot.
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2016/08/21 03:03:52
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Confessor Of Sins
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 JohnHwangDD wrote: ArbitorIan wrote:If GW made other female ranges, they might be able to counterbalance that.
One could argue that Cadia has entire divisions composed entirely of female troops, that half of the entire Cadian military is female. Wearing their helmets and armor, there is no way to determine the gender of the Trooper, Tanker or Pilot.
Statistically speaking, if you don't care whether your troops are male or female, a 20,000-person strong IG regiment that consists solely of either women or men is so unlikely that the Imperium has, in all probability, never seen it happen.
If an all-male or all-female IG division does exist, it's not through random chance, but through someone making it happen on purpose.
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2016/08/21 03:59:18
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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 Pouncey wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote: ArbitorIan wrote:If GW made other female ranges, they might be able to counterbalance that.
One could argue that Cadia has entire divisions composed entirely of female troops, that half of the entire Cadian military is female. Wearing their helmets and armor, there is no way to determine the gender of the Trooper, Tanker or Pilot.
Statistically speaking, if you don't care whether your troops are male or female, a 20,000-person strong IG regiment that consists solely of either women or men is so unlikely that the Imperium has, in all probability, never seen it happen.
If an all-male or all-female IG division does exist, it's not through random chance, but through someone making it happen on purpose.
Last I checked most planets' regiments are segregated. The Ciaphas Cain books have a regiment that became integrated through amalgamating understrength regiments, and they make a point of it being unusual.
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2016/08/21 04:02:38
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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Sometimes I wonder if the reason GW don't do anything with Sisters is because they read any thread on a forum about Sisters and think "Yeah, lets not touch that with a barge pole".
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/21 04:03:52
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2016/08/21 04:36:34
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Confessor Of Sins
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 AnomanderRake wrote: Pouncey wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote: ArbitorIan wrote:If GW made other female ranges, they might be able to counterbalance that.
One could argue that Cadia has entire divisions composed entirely of female troops, that half of the entire Cadian military is female. Wearing their helmets and armor, there is no way to determine the gender of the Trooper, Tanker or Pilot.
Statistically speaking, if you don't care whether your troops are male or female, a 20,000-person strong IG regiment that consists solely of either women or men is so unlikely that the Imperium has, in all probability, never seen it happen.
If an all-male or all-female IG division does exist, it's not through random chance, but through someone making it happen on purpose.
Last I checked most planets' regiments are segregated. The Ciaphas Cain books have a regiment that became integrated through amalgamating understrength regiments, and they make a point of it being unusual.
So... Yes, it is in fact due to people making it happen on purpose?
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2016/08/21 05:18:58
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Pouncey wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote: ArbitorIan wrote:If GW made other female ranges, they might be able to counterbalance that.
One could argue that Cadia has entire divisions composed entirely of female troops, that half of the entire Cadian military is female. Wearing their helmets and armor, there is no way to determine the gender of the Trooper, Tanker or Pilot.
Statistically speaking, if you don't care whether your troops are male or female, a 20,000-person strong IG regiment that consists solely of either women or men is so unlikely that the Imperium has, in all probability, never seen it happen.
If an all-male or all-female IG division does exist, it's not through random chance, but through someone making it happen on purpose.
If you go back to when the IG had Doctrines, an female Guard troopers were included in the examples.
The US has deliberately fielded racially-segregated military units in WW2, and did not integrate the sexes unit decades thereafter. The notion of Cadia creating women-only divisions is not at all out of the question.
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2016/08/21 06:10:02
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Let's please keep this thread about Sisters. The "more diversity" thread in this same subforum is where we are currently discussing female IG. Thanks.
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2016/08/21 06:15:36
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Sorry, I missed that other thread.
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2016/08/21 07:20:22
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Hallowed Canoness
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But that would look like a) looking for user feedback and b) acknowledging that the internet exists!
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2016/08/21 07:31:21
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Confessor Of Sins
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While I acknowledge A as a problem... they do actually have people reading wargaming forums.
Because a couple of years ago, when I posted photos of a White Dwarf I received in the mail a few days early, those photos were taken down within 4 hours of being posted due to GW filing a cease and desist order with the image hosting site.
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2016/08/21 08:18:28
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Warwick, Warwickshire, England, UK, NW Europe, Sol-3, Western Spiral Arm, Milky Way
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Just to go back to the Repentia, one of my favourite bits of Sisters art is the double-page spread in Codex: Witchhunters with the battle cathedral and the puritan-hat-Inquisitor ... and the naked Repentia with sheets of confessions (?) pinned to them - and, in one case, pins through the eyes. This level of self-mutilation and death-wish-lunacy is something that the figures don't really portray, but it would be awesome to see. Doubt it'll happen outside of a third-party company though.
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2016/08/21 08:22:16
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters
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Confessor Of Sins
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Gen.Steiner wrote:Just to go back to the Repentia, one of my favourite bits of Sisters art is the double-page spread in Codex: Witchhunters with the battle cathedral and the puritan-hat-Inquisitor ... and the naked Repentia with sheets of confessions (?) pinned to them - and, in one case, pins through the eyes. This level of self-mutilation and death-wish-lunacy is something that the figures don't really portray, but it would be awesome to see. Doubt it'll happen outside of a third-party company though.
Pins... through the eyes...
I might need to glue those two pages together so I can never see that, because I never noticed that and now I might not be able to resist looking for it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/21 08:22:41
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2016/08/21 11:25:08
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Warwick, Warwickshire, England, UK, NW Europe, Sol-3, Western Spiral Arm, Milky Way
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Pouncey wrote:Gen.Steiner wrote:Just to go back to the Repentia, one of my favourite bits of Sisters art is the double-page spread in Codex: Witchhunters with the battle cathedral and the puritan-hat-Inquisitor ... and the naked Repentia with sheets of confessions (?) pinned to them - and, in one case, pins through the eyes. This level of self-mutilation and death-wish-lunacy is something that the figures don't really portray, but it would be awesome to see. Doubt it'll happen outside of a third-party company though.
Pins... through the eyes...
I might need to glue those two pages together so I can never see that, because I never noticed that and now I might not be able to resist looking for it.
Yeah! Pins through the eyes. And there's another Repentia whose eyes are covered in a parchment 'bandage' with blood pouring down her cheeks, running forwards with one hand on the shoulder of the one in front.
See?
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2016/08/21 11:46:37
Subject: Re:Plastic Sisters
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Confessor Of Sins
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Gen.Steiner wrote: Pouncey wrote:Gen.Steiner wrote:Just to go back to the Repentia, one of my favourite bits of Sisters art is the double-page spread in Codex: Witchhunters with the battle cathedral and the puritan-hat-Inquisitor ... and the naked Repentia with sheets of confessions (?) pinned to them - and, in one case, pins through the eyes. This level of self-mutilation and death-wish-lunacy is something that the figures don't really portray, but it would be awesome to see. Doubt it'll happen outside of a third-party company though.
Pins... through the eyes...
I might need to glue those two pages together so I can never see that, because I never noticed that and now I might not be able to resist looking for it.
Yeah! Pins through the eyes. And there's another Repentia whose eyes are covered in a parchment 'bandage' with blood pouring down her cheeks, running forwards with one hand on the shoulder of the one in front.
See?
What part of what I said made it sound like I wanted you to post it for me to see?
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2016/08/21 11:48:12
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Warwick, Warwickshire, England, UK, NW Europe, Sol-3, Western Spiral Arm, Milky Way
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The bit where you said you might not be able to resist looking for it. 
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2016/08/21 11:55:21
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Confessor Of Sins
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And the first part of that sentence said that I'd glue the pages together to STOP myself from doing that.
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2016/08/21 11:57:01
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Warwick, Warwickshire, England, UK, NW Europe, Sol-3, Western Spiral Arm, Milky Way
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Oh yes!
...
Woops.
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2016/08/21 13:59:17
Subject: Plastic Sisters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I would like to see the sisters get some DeathWatch sized attention, at the very least. For the base kit, a box of 5 or 10 sisters with either the Bob cut or the helmets would be fine, along with each of the special and heavy weapons could work.
You have my attention. Do go on.
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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