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Made in us
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe




I agree that while there are a lot of good things in this codex, I think competitive DG will be one of two lists. Either it will be a gunline based around the plague crawlers, atleast one blight hauler, poxwalkers and/or cultists to screen, and characters for support. The 2nd option would be everything revolving around Mortarion; buffing him, supporting him, protecting him, whatever it may be.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Anyone know for sure what the Plague Crawler's BS is? In diffrent reviews it is listed diffrently. I have heard both 3+ and 4+.
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
I agree that while there are a lot of good things in this codex, I think competitive DG will be one of two lists. Either it will be a gunline based around the plague crawlers, atleast one blight hauler, poxwalkers and/or cultists to screen, and characters for support. The 2nd option would be everything revolving around Mortarion; buffing him, supporting him, protecting him, whatever it may be.


One thing to consider would be whether we can really outshoot say a Gulliman list even if we focus alot on Plague Crawlers. Gulliman lists have reroll to hit and reroll to wound. Plague crawler are mainly good just because they seem to be cheap. We don't have the kind of aura buffs for shooting like a Gulliman list has.

On the other hand, an assaulty list carries risks of its own too. Its not easy to make an assaulty list work well, mainly because you spend at least one turn moving up the board, and then you have to worry about bubble wrap in your way, and then whoever you hit in assault can fall back and you still get shot again.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

Plague Crawlers are good but they're not going to be in a tournament winning list. As Elden pointed out, they're just not efficient enough. That being said, I think they are awesome models and in a normal, non super competitive setting, I think that they (and like 90 percent of the Death Guard army) will do great.

Things from DG that belong in a super competitive army:

Mortarion
Typhus
Poxwalkers

I'll let you know if I think of anything else but I think that's about it.
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





I dunno about pox walkers. 6 points for something that moves 4 inches? For bubblewrapping, they are too expensive. brimstone horrors are 3 points and have an invul save.

If you are relying on them to kill something worthwhile. At 4 inches move, they will never achieve that against competitive players.

They are thematic and can take up a troop slot in a Deathguard list. But so good such that they will actually achieve something? I still kinda have my doubts.
   
Made in us
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe




The thing about the plague crawlers is that, according to the review I saw, their mortars are plague weapons. Then there is the warlord trait that allows plague weapons to reroll wounds. Put that on a lord for rerolling 1s to hit as well and they become pretty decent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/11 03:54:36


 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I dunno about pox walkers. 6 points for something that moves 4 inches? For bubblewrapping, they are too expensive. brimstone horrors are 3 points and have an invul save.

If you are relying on them to kill something worthwhile. At 4 inches move, they will never achieve that against competitive players.

They are thematic and can take up a troop slot in a Deathguard list. But so good such that they will actually achieve something? I still kinda have my doubts.


I posted this a few pages back but basically you can take CSM cultists to screen the pox walkers. Say you take 80 cultists.

Shroud the pox walkers so they can't be targeted. Give them the super death rule so that when the cultists next to them die, they gain 1 pox walker for every dead cultist.

Profit as you now have 100 pox walkers on turn 2 or 3, much closer to the opponent.

For lols, if they don't kill all of the cultists, you can regenerate the squad and do it again.

The tallyman lets them re-roll all their failed to hits. Typhus can make them str 5 and t5 with his aura and a psychic power.

Prescience them if you want.

How do you feel about 200 str 5 attacks, hitting on 3's re-rolling misses? If Mortarion is nearby, they wound GEQ on 2's. That's a lot of saves for anyone, and every model that dies just keeps giving me more pox walkers.

TLDR I need more pox walker models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
The thing about the plague crawlers is that, according to the review I saw, their mortars are plague weapons. Then there is the warlord trait that allows plague weapons to reroll wounds. Put that on a lord for rerolling 1s to hit as well and they become pretty decent.


You are absolutely right. And perhaps they will wind up being competitive. But there's a pretty big chasm between "pretty decent" and "belongs in a tournament setting".

Deathshroud Terminators are pretty decent. Mortarion belongs in a tournament setting.

Basically, if it's not borderline OP, it's not usually going to show up at a tournament, unless the player bringing it just wants to play for fun and not to win.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/11 03:58:00


 
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





 luke1705 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
I dunno about pox walkers. 6 points for something that moves 4 inches? For bubblewrapping, they are too expensive. brimstone horrors are 3 points and have an invul save.

If you are relying on them to kill something worthwhile. At 4 inches move, they will never achieve that against competitive players.

They are thematic and can take up a troop slot in a Deathguard list. But so good such that they will actually achieve something? I still kinda have my doubts.


I posted this a few pages back but basically you can take CSM cultists to screen the pox walkers. Say you take 80 cultists.

Shroud the pox walkers so they can't be targeted. Give them the super death rule so that when the cultists next to them die, they gain 1 pox walker for every dead cultist.

Profit as you now have 100 pox walkers on turn 2 or 3, much closer to the opponent.

For lols, if they don't kill all of the cultists, you can regenerate the squad and do it again.

The tallyman lets them re-roll all their failed to hits. Typhus can make them str 5 and t5 with his aura and a psychic power.

Prescience them if you want.

How do you feel about 200 str 5 attacks, hitting on 3's re-rolling misses? If Mortarion is nearby, they wound GEQ on 2's. That's a lot of saves for anyone, and every model that dies just keeps giving me more pox walkers.

TLDR I need more pox walker models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
The thing about the plague crawlers is that, according to the review I saw, their mortars are plague weapons. Then there is the warlord trait that allows plague weapons to reroll wounds. Put that on a lord for rerolling 1s to hit as well and they become pretty decent.


You are absolutely right. And perhaps they will wind up being competitive. But there's a pretty big chasm between "pretty decent" and "belongs in a tournament setting".

Deathshroud Terminators are pretty decent. Mortarion belongs in a tournament setting.

Basically, if it's not borderline OP, it's not usually going to show up at a tournament, unless the player bringing it just wants to play for fun and not to win.


And I complimented you on that tactic! But I still think a move of 4 inches is going to be problematic. I dunno, we will see. I would like to see your idea implemented and tried out in an actual list and have feedback on how it worked.
   
Made in us
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe




Well regardless on how good they end up being (only actually using them will tell), I plan on painting up a spearhead detachment consisting of 3 pĺague crawlers and a lord all in Iron Warriors colors to go with my current army. From there, we will see if they end up in the DG army I am starting
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




 luke1705 wrote:
mario88826 wrote:


Oh well even with math shoved right onto paper some people just can't accept it. OKay in fact he can do way more. Just lineup 25mm -28mm base character in line to increase pistol damage.
And few more hidden gems - +2 S +1A can dish another 18 wounds on silence. And getting like 13 units within 7" is easy as hell .

I can get 30 wounds just from plague wind. You are deluded not to see theoretical possiblity for way more than your 30-60 wounds ...
And plague wind is just smaller part ... from psychic powrs alone 43 wounds ... 7 for new contagion spell and 6 from smite. I DON'T EVEN NEED TO USE Silence at all to get more than 60 wounds which is is your so-called "very theoretical upper limit under perfect circumstances."


You don't know your stuff buddy go read rules for plague wind alone to see where just minor part of this possible damage comes.

Also bad math - then show me yours , I have proper one here. 43 wounds from spells not counting aura/ phosphex/pistol/Silence other possible damage (yeah there are such possiblites)

With pistol and spells alone I break your weirdo theory.


Ok I'm putting this to bed. The ridiculous asssumptions here are going to stop.

Rant and actual math incoming:

Spoiler:


Mortarion can do wounds in the psychic phase, shooting phase, and the assault phase.

In the psychic phase, you can dream that he would do 17 wounds. Realistically, he's casting the -1 to hit power on himself and then blades if he needs it, but let's say you're going all out offensive and using smite and curse of the leper. Against the ideal target (t3 guardsmen or something), you need a 3+ on all 7 dice. That will happen 1 in 20 attempts. But say you get it. Then you smite (roughly a 85% chance to cast). If you're in range to get denied, the math gets tricky based on what you rolled but, on average, you'll get denied roughly 30% of the time that you succeed to cast. Once you've cast, you need to roll high enough to go for a d6 damage smite. That's just under 10%. And then you need to roll a 6. So 1/6 odds. So in nearly 2% of your smite attempts, you'll get to do 6 mortal wounds. In one out of 1000 psychic phases, you will do 13 mortal wounds. On normal turns when you smite and cast a defensive power, you're probably averaging 2 mortal wounds.

In the shooting phase, things can get very ridiculous if you have an opponent that is literally inting and feeding you 3+ wound models. In the dream world, you have a line of 17 different squads who are literally screaming at you to end their existence. (Note that there are very few 3+ wound models that are also on 28mm bases, which is necessary for this strategem). So you've got your friend with an army of nothing but acolytes and inquisitors trying to position in such a way that you can tell the Internet that this actually happened. I'm actually not sure if you need to hit everyone or just your original target, but either way it's actually on average that you'll hit and wound all but one time, even if you hit individually. So toss on 51 more wounds. Never mind that no sane opponent will ever let you line up more than 4 or 5 squads, and that most of those squads will comprise of single wound models, so realistically you're getting a true theoretical maximum of 10 wounds most likely. I think doing 6-7 is a good turn and 4-5 is a good representative average expectation. Tbh, the grenades are probably a better bet against most chaff units. On average, 7 attacks, 7 hits, 5 wounds, 4 dead models in one squad. But the pistol can snipe a character if it has 3 or fewer wounds so that's nice.

The maximum amount of wounds that Mortarion can do in close combat is 18. That is against 5+ save or worse models (or 3+ save models with no invuln, but that are also 3 wounds each, or have more than 18 wounds). His nurglings can add more attacks (6 in a perfect situation) and can on average even wound guardsmen 4-5 times, but they likely will only take 3 wounds after saving throws. So 21 wounds from cc attacks. This is actually not at all terribly unlikely unless you're against MEQ.

Of course, he has his 7" aura ability. I think this is where most of the crazy ideas come in. He can, in theory, do tons of wounds if enough squads are close enough to him in the fight phase. If your opponent packs in 20 units (again inting to feed you) within 7", then 10 of them will suffer d3 mortal wounds (20 total basically). But we are not deterred by math. Theoretical maximum! I am capping your inting opponent at 20 squads because most armies don't even have that many units, let alone an opponent actually moving that many units into one spot to put you in range. But maybe you roll all 20 4+ rolls. That is actually slightly upwards of a 1 in a million event. Then you need to roll 20 5+ (less than 1 in 100 million odds). But congrats! You've done 60 mortal wounds!

Back to reality, you'll probably be able to position to get 3 or 4 units in range. Let's call it 4. 4+ to proc the ability means 2 units. D3 means 2 on average. So 4 wounds most likely.

So, in a fairy land, with an opponent actively feeding to try and let Mortarion rack up wounds, you could get 124 wounds in a single turn! This will happen once in every 100,000,000,000,000,000 attempts (order of magnitude approximation). To put this in context, if you could attempt this feat every second, in one billion years, you would have, on average, succeeded once.

End rant.



Realistically, I'm actually probably using the grenades if I don't need to snipe a character. That means that I'll get roughly 30 wounds a turn that Mortarion spends in combat. Not terrible, but nowhere near 200.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote:
Can't wait to see lists that have Mortarion and Magnus for double brother punching power. Better yet, take a couple of Supreme Command Detachments to get both of those LoW in there along with a bunch of buffing characters. Fill last of the points with cultists and poxwalkers. Shenanigans ensue.


I've given this a lot of thought, but it's tough to make work. In an ideal world, just use 2 super heavy auxiliary detachments, but you really need 2 battalions for that sweet sweet CP, and most events (even the BRB) only allow 3 detachments at 2k points. 6 CP is just not enough IMO.

If you do a battalion and 1-2 supreme command detachments, you're just a bit too bloated on HQ's IMO. The malefic lords are nice in this regard, but sadly I'm going to an event in October where I can only take 1 Forge World unit. Even if I could take 6, I'm not convinced that I would. Ah who am I kidding that would work really well. Curse you 3 detachment and 0-1 forge world limit!

But yeah big dude(s) plus cultists and poxwalkers will likely be the linchpins of many competitive CSM lists. Will be curious to see how many players omit Magnus in favor of Mortarion.


OK this ridiculous conversation ends NOW, I need to put down your arguments like rabbid dog out of misery.

Why you even attacked me in first place is also beyond my understanding. But I will keep my cool and just hammer you with facts.

I don't care what is " you can hope for, you can pray, please cross fingers " and other similar arguments.

FIRST OF ALL - i said dealing this amount in practice is nigh impossible. So stop repeating that I said he deals this every turn in every game. People can read so you are making yourself looking extremely bad.
All I did was to show his potential damage he can dish out and as it stands you never managed to show ANY MATH - whether you possess any math skills or not - that is not my bussiness .

Potential doesn't mean you can use it at demand .

Listen since you are so stubborn and idk you sounds like some fact-resilient person - then I just won't spend any more comments on you.

Give up dude, leave me be . So far not even in a single post you did any proof for your claims. When I at same time just made CORRECT claims according to rules of 40k . Plain and simple.

Sadly you are not person that you can communicate with , because you rely on some weird math magic, assumptions and religious zeal.

Keep talking about DG tactics there. What you do now is nothing but disgusting - and most of all you just don't have single argument going for you.

IT ENDS NOW. Regardless of your any response. I won't even read it in first place. It got ridiculous. Actually putting you on ignore. As civilised conversation with you is apparenlty impossible.

As last thing - if you want to prove I'm wrong - then do so. Don't use demagogy and other tricks. They don't work on me. Only facts and pure calculations. As it happens i have math degree.
That doesn't mean i'm always right or that i cannot make mistake. But for sure I won't listen to some "kitchen math".

Ok back to tactic - so according to warhammer community (and that site is 100% accurate after all about rules) - Deathshroud don't get extra attack for characters around them but those characters get the attack instead with exception for Morty.

Bit disappointed hehe - though they get +1 A and they hit better than most characters. But still not bad when your demon prince/lord of contagion/typhus etc can swing one more time. Not bad at all considering typhus hits super hard but just got 4 attacks base.

Sounds like this really makes them best as embarked on Land Raider , because there is a lot of space left for few characters like Surgeon/Typhus/tallyman. Blightlords sound like better deepstriking option.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/11 07:52:08


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Anyone coming up with any good lists? Here is what I gave come up with so far. The points may not be perfect.

Mortarian- 470pts
Daemon Prince w/ hellforge sword, talon, 2+ armor save relic, 4+ DR warlord trait-152pts
Nurgle Chaos Lord w/ helm giving a 9" reroll 1s range- 80pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts

Total= 1836 pts. Not sure what else to add. It seems so small!
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hmmm, so Mortarion is just going to charge in all by himself ? Because I don't think the rest of the army will be able to keep up. And you probably want to plague hauler to stay with the plague marines to give them their +1 cover save.

I dunno, I think someone will come up with the best way to send Mortarion into combat, but right now, flying him up alone just seem like a very risky thing to do. I mean, he is resilient, but he isn't invincible. I think you will get the best out of him if you either present multiple big threats, or fly him up with other stuff beside him.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




Eldenfirefly wrote:
Hmmm, so Mortarion is just going to charge in all by himself ? Because I don't think the rest of the army will be able to keep up. And you probably want to plague hauler to stay with the plague marines to give them their +1 cover save.

I dunno, I think someone will come up with the best way to send Mortarion into combat, but right now, flying him up alone just seem like a very risky thing to do. I mean, he is resilient, but he isn't invincible. I think you will get the best out of him if you either present multiple big threats, or fly him up with other stuff beside him.


Both 2 new daemon engines move at 10" and drones can even advance and still hit with some weapons. So If i would to field Mortarion - they would come with him for sure. And that is actually pretty solid backup.
You can also teleport strike terminators to make sure he is not alone there, and neither terminators are - giving your opponent ... tons of targets that need attention.
And there is possibility to carry stuff in fast Rhino/Land Raider - some support characters like Foul Blightspawn / malignant plague caster and some cc guys like Deathsroud/Plague Marines.

Just forget poxwalkers if you field Morty - take Plague Marines as troops then - they can come in Rhino and/or support him with long range fire - as they are actually can rapid fire at 18" and hit at 24" with blight launchers.
I can't even imagine when they could aid Morty if they are going 4" even with Noxious dude.

So yeah as long as you don't forget to take teleport strike support/demon engines and transports - he should have backup coming with him.

Other worth mentioning aspect is that we as of now got BEST long range artillery support of all (oh irony for army that was supposed to be weak at heavy support) - PlagueBurst crawler can hurt stuff that wants to target Mortarion.

Some devastator squad / Hellblasters ? Hit them with mortar - if you hit them - then you wound on 2+ rerolling 1's - that is sick. And -3 AP D3 damage.

Some vehicles with lascannons ? Razorbacks ? Entropy cannon (cheaper and better lascannon in fact , S8 but that AP-4 for 5 points less) - although only 36" not 48" still nice range and wounds razorback on 3+ , shreds his armor completely and D6 damage each.

Since those mortars are like 150 points - I can easily see DG army having actually pretty impressive support fire once you take 2 or even 3 of those.

Basically we got more shooty and WAY more resillient razorbacks, sadly they eat heavy support slots - but what else we have ? Predator - good but just inferior to PBC , Defiler - ok that is not bad at all, maybe Land Raider if you want to carry some dudes. You should anway easily fit 2 out of 3 slots without spearhead in battalion with PBC's.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
Anyone coming up with any good lists? Here is what I gave come up with so far. The points may not be perfect.

Mortarian- 470pts
Daemon Prince w/ hellforge sword, talon, 2+ armor save relic, 4+ DR warlord trait-152pts
Nurgle Chaos Lord w/ helm giving a 9" reroll 1s range- 80pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts

Total= 1836 pts. Not sure what else to add. It seems so small!


Mate not bad list there. Idk if Morty Was 470 or 427 though. If 470 then he is pricey .
You got exactly enough points to fit 1 more Hauler.

It's simple thing for Haulers you either take 1 as support for infantry and some dakka or 3 , nothing in middle. unit of 3+ get +1 to hit.

When you get 3 you start hitting on 3+ even after moving. That is really huge boost to those guys.

Also I kinda can't see why you take 3 characters for rerolling 1's . A bit overkill and at same time your psychic phase ain't strong enough.
Typhus even without zombies(btw screw poxwalkers) is powerful CC dude and can cast 2 powers . So I would replace lord.

And you made small mistake there - if you have Morty then he has Warlord trait - Archcontaminator (pretty neat). So you can't have DR warlord trait aswell on Prince.

Unless you won't make Morty your warlord - but then again you lose his powerful aura.

Damn last edit - also I kinda don't like sending Morty alone - I think it's wise to send new CC bloat drone with him , they benefit from his warlord trait and -1T aura BIG TIME. And they hit pretty hard on thier own. Or at least Plaguespitter drones - also fast solid can advance and still autohit.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/09/11 09:10:43


 
   
Made in nl
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker





BlueBiscuit wrote:
Blightlords, at least according to that review, also have S5 3A and can intercept wounds for DG characters. They don't get manreapers and can't give +1 attack to characters, but that's it apparently.


I doubt he has the book and has just compiled info from other feeds for views. I think blightlord termies will only have str 4 and 2 attacks. Also, I believe the crawler was mentioned to be daemonic in the miniwargaming video, so it'll have a BS of 4+ probably.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




Milkshaker wrote:
BlueBiscuit wrote:
Blightlords, at least according to that review, also have S5 3A and can intercept wounds for DG characters. They don't get manreapers and can't give +1 attack to characters, but that's it apparently.


I doubt he has the book and has just compiled info from other feeds for views. I think blightlord termies will only have str 4 and 2 attacks. Also, I believe the crawler was mentioned to be daemonic in the miniwargaming video, so it'll have a BS of 4+ probably.


You are correct sir, guy copy pasted Deathshroud stats. Still Blightlords are best termies in game by far for points per model. No Manreapers but they get even more OP weapon value wise - godly flails of corruption.

Speaking about crawler - yeah 4+ bs sucks, but then again I rather have 4+ BS than lose demonic 5+ invu and 5+ FNP (comparison to predator). And most importantly if you want plaguespitters they autohit anyway with S7 - sick.
Honestly it's good they got BS 4+ . Otherwise they would be disgustingly overpowered. With BS 4+ they are just very strong.

Now here is my question: can I use Demon Engine stratagem on Heretic Astartes Demon Engine in DG detachment ? Or I can only use Stratagems from DG book ? That is actually pretty bad for any demon engine if they lose access to this godlike stratagem.
Same with warlord traits / relics ?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/11 09:39:03


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Do we know for sure the plague crawlers are BS4? I saw another review series that showed them as BS3.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





mario88826 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Hmmm, so Mortarion is just going to charge in all by himself ? Because I don't think the rest of the army will be able to keep up. And you probably want to plague hauler to stay with the plague marines to give them their +1 cover save.

I dunno, I think someone will come up with the best way to send Mortarion into combat, but right now, flying him up alone just seem like a very risky thing to do. I mean, he is resilient, but he isn't invincible. I think you will get the best out of him if you either present multiple big threats, or fly him up with other stuff beside him.


Both 2 new daemon engines move at 10" and drones can even advance and still hit with some weapons. So If i would to field Mortarion - they would come with him for sure. And that is actually pretty solid backup.
You can also teleport strike terminators to make sure he is not alone there, and neither terminators are - giving your opponent ... tons of targets that need attention.
And there is possibility to carry stuff in fast Rhino/Land Raider - some support characters like Foul Blightspawn / malignant plague caster and some cc guys like Deathsroud/Plague Marines.

Just forget poxwalkers if you field Morty - take Plague Marines as troops then - they can come in Rhino and/or support him with long range fire - as they are actually can rapid fire at 18" and hit at 24" with blight launchers.
I can't even imagine when they could aid Morty if they are going 4" even with Noxious dude.

So yeah as long as you don't forget to take teleport strike support/demon engines and transports - he should have backup coming with him.

Other worth mentioning aspect is that we as of now got BEST long range artillery support of all (oh irony for army that was supposed to be weak at heavy support) - PlagueBurst crawler can hurt stuff that wants to target Mortarion.

Some devastator squad / Hellblasters ? Hit them with mortar - if you hit them - then you wound on 2+ rerolling 1's - that is sick. And -3 AP D3 damage.

Some vehicles with lascannons ? Razorbacks ? Entropy cannon (cheaper and better lascannon in fact , S8 but that AP-4 for 5 points less) - although only 36" not 48" still nice range and wounds razorback on 3+ , shreds his armor completely and D6 damage each.

Since those mortars are like 150 points - I can easily see DG army having actually pretty impressive support fire once you take 2 or even 3 of those.

Basically we got more shooty and WAY more resillient razorbacks, sadly they eat heavy support slots - but what else we have ? Predator - good but just inferior to PBC , Defiler - ok that is not bad at all, maybe Land Raider if you want to carry some dudes. You should anway easily fit 2 out of 3 slots without spearhead in battalion with PBC's.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
Anyone coming up with any good lists? Here is what I gave come up with so far. The points may not be perfect.

Mortarian- 470pts
Daemon Prince w/ hellforge sword, talon, 2+ armor save relic, 4+ DR warlord trait-152pts
Nurgle Chaos Lord w/ helm giving a 9" reroll 1s range- 80pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts

Total= 1836 pts. Not sure what else to add. It seems so small!


Mate not bad list there. Idk if Morty Was 470 or 427 though. If 470 then he is pricey .
You got exactly enough points to fit 1 more Hauler.

It's simple thing for Haulers you either take 1 as support for infantry and some dakka or 3 , nothing in middle. unit of 3+ get +1 to hit.

When you get 3 you start hitting on 3+ even after moving. That is really huge boost to those guys.

Also I kinda can't see why you take 3 characters for rerolling 1's . A bit overkill and at same time your psychic phase ain't strong enough.
Typhus even without zombies(btw screw poxwalkers) is powerful CC dude and can cast 2 powers . So I would replace lord.

And you made small mistake there - if you have Morty then he has Warlord trait - Archcontaminator (pretty neat). So you can't have DR warlord trait aswell on Prince.

Unless you won't make Morty your warlord - but then again you lose his powerful aura.

Damn last edit - also I kinda don't like sending Morty alone - I think it's wise to send new CC bloat drone with him , they benefit from his warlord trait and -1T aura BIG TIME. And they hit pretty hard on thier own. Or at least Plaguespitter drones - also fast solid can advance and still autohit.


Yea the DP goes in foward with Mortaian to attack my enemy. I guess I could take a bloat drone with flesh mower in addition (depending on points). I wouldn't mind finding a way to add a unit of terminators also. I would also not make Mortarian my warlord in this list and instead make it the DP. I really like the idea of a 4+ DR save. And unless you go all in for melee units Mortatian's aura doesn't really do much, since most plague weapons already reroll 1s on wound rolls. I would rather have someone baby sitting my PMs, crawlers, and haulers and reroll all there 1s to hit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/11 11:29:21


 
   
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@ broxus

Well fact is that DR trait is much worse than Arch contaminator regardless of setup.

Arch contaminator let's Mortarion reroll all wound rolls on his Silence in 18 attacks mode so against T8 targets you reroll 1's 2's 3's not just 1's. But there is more - you reroll all nurgling wounds so they may actually be able to score some damage . 95% of time you want to swing 18 times instead of 6 with S16 , especially thanks to his trait .

All your plague marines/bloat drones/haulers/terminator plague weapons - be it in CC or ranged also reroll all wound rolls. Within arch contaminator aura of course.

Arch contaminator is hands down best trait you can have . Good for warlord and not selfish at same time - a lot of stuff around benefits - be it Deathsroud/Blightlords/Drones or anything with plague weapon.

That being said - I won't stop you from going with +1 to FNP on 1 unit . That does not even help your fnp at all against mortal wounds - as stated in trait description.
Honestly if I would take any defensive trait at all on Demon Prince - I would either take damage reduction by 1 or regeneration - each players turn so in one turn you actually heal 2 wounds !

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/11 10:45:22


 
   
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mario88826 wrote:
@ broxus

Well fact is that DR trait is much worse than Arch contaminator regardless of setup.

Arch contaminator let's Mortarion reroll all wound rolls on his Silence in 18 attacks mode so against T8 targets you reroll 1's 2's 3's not just 1's. But there is more - you reroll all nurgling wounds so they may actually be able to score some damage . 95% of time you want to swing 18 times instead of 6 with S16 , especially thanks to his trait .

All your plague marines/bloat drones/haulers/terminator plague weapons - be it in CC or ranged also reroll all wound rolls. Within arch contaminator aura of course.

Arch contaminator is hands down best trait you can have . Good for warlord and not selfish at same time - a lot of stuff around benefits - be it Deathsroud/Blightlords/Drones or anything with plague weapon.

That being said - I won't stop you from going with +1 to FNP on 1 unit . That does not even help your fnp at all against mortal wounds - as stated in trait description.
Honestly if I would take any defensive trait at all on Demon Prince - I would either take damage reduction by 1 or regeneration - each players turn so in one turn you actually heal 2 wounds !


I may take the regen instead of the +1 DR. If I take arch contagion on Mort he will likely always be ahead of my units and they won't get the benefits. Especially since the bulk of my firepower comes from my advancing plague marines.

Also remember T8 targets near Mort are only T7 if you used the 18 attacks for some reason you would wound on 3s and reroll 1s. However, against any single target I can't see any situation that you would rather use the Str 16, AP 4 attacks that do D6 damage.

I really think the core of the Death Guard is rapid firing plasma at 18". My list alone pumps out 24 shots a turn. Having 3 plasma guns in such resilient unit is amazing. In fact, a scion command squad with 4-plasma guns shooting at a unit of PM in cover (or near a hauler) only does 1.58 damage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/11 11:51:14


 
   
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Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win
   
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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win

I was just going to mention Eipdemius you read my mind.
Strangely enough I think Morty and the new Daemon Engines might work better in a largely Daemons list.
   
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 dan2026 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win

I was just going to mention Eipdemius you read my mind.
Strangely enough I think Morty and the new Daemon Engines might work better in a largely Daemons list.


I also thought about adding 3x3 Oblits + Termi-Lord from CSM, since Oblits now have some decent firepower and are Daemons as well. You miss out on some stratagems though when making them Nurgle. However, you can teleport in, forming a bubble around the lord to reroll ones. The only "downside" in that kind of army would be that you skip the DG trait and take some Daemons as troops, as there are no DG Daemon troops and you would want everybody to profit and everybody to bring up the Tally.
   
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WA

 dan2026 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win

I was just going to mention Eipdemius you read my mind.
Strangely enough I think Morty and the new Daemon Engines might work better in a largely Daemons list.


Shame it is one of the ugliest models GW produces. I would be inclined to model my own somehow, because... seriously, why is that model so awful?

   
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broxus wrote:
mario88826 wrote:
@ broxus

Well fact is that DR trait is much worse than Arch contaminator regardless of setup.

Arch contaminator let's Mortarion reroll all wound rolls on his Silence in 18 attacks mode so against T8 targets you reroll 1's 2's 3's not just 1's. But there is more - you reroll all nurgling wounds so they may actually be able to score some damage . 95% of time you want to swing 18 times instead of 6 with S16 , especially thanks to his trait .

All your plague marines/bloat drones/haulers/terminator plague weapons - be it in CC or ranged also reroll all wound rolls. Within arch contaminator aura of course.

Arch contaminator is hands down best trait you can have . Good for warlord and not selfish at same time - a lot of stuff around benefits - be it Deathsroud/Blightlords/Drones or anything with plague weapon.

That being said - I won't stop you from going with +1 to FNP on 1 unit . That does not even help your fnp at all against mortal wounds - as stated in trait description.
Honestly if I would take any defensive trait at all on Demon Prince - I would either take damage reduction by 1 or regeneration - each players turn so in one turn you actually heal 2 wounds !


I may take the regen instead of the +1 DR. If I take arch contagion on Mort he will likely always be ahead of my units and they won't get the benefits. Especially since the bulk of my firepower comes from my advancing plague marines.

Also remember T8 targets near Mort are only T7 if you used the 18 attacks for some reason you would wound on 3s and reroll 1s. However, against any single target I can't see any situation that you would rather use the Str 16, AP 4 attacks that do D6 damage.

I really think the core of the Death Guard is rapid firing plasma at 18". My list alone pumps out 24 shots a turn. Having 3 plasma guns in such resilient unit is amazing. In fact, a scion command squad with 4-plasma guns shooting at a unit of PM in cover (or near a hauler) only does 1.58 damage.


hah fair enough about -1T I forgot so yes even against T8 it's 3+. Good point. When I make mistake I admit it. Still Archcontaminator helps even your shooty plague marines defend in CC or your haulers close combat .

Well I see you have fairly decent tactic - however seems like Morty doesn't really fit into this Army tbh ? You can get like 3 more plagueburst crawlers in sperhead there instead of him. Since it seems you aim for shooty army. Or anything else like more haulers/shooty drones.

Mortarion seems like he is solid centerpice for army based on plague weapons and CC. He is strong, but not mandatory - and seems you don't have much use for him there. And he is 470 pts huh.
Sure I know 5 PBC's seem like boring looking army - but for tournament if you want to win - you probably don't need to have funny list - but strong one.

For casual games of course I wouldnt go to such extremes like 5x PBC. But just pure amount of dakka such setup provides is staggering.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 dan2026 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win

I was just going to mention Eipdemius you read my mind.
Strangely enough I think Morty and the new Daemon Engines might work better in a largely Daemons list.


Hah yes there are VERY nice spells from demon nurgle discipline, that are excellent for morty and demon engines.
To name those : Virulent blessing - oh my good suddenly CC bloat drone with contagion +1 wound roll spell deals on wounds of 5+ 6+ flat 4 damage on top of mortal wounds. Same for mortarion.
Another nice demon spell is Flesh Abundance or so - heals D3 wounds. Mortarion really likes this idea.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/11 13:19:42


 
   
Made in us
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I've been almost exclusively playing Epidemius Nurgle Daemons all of 8th Ed. and I did some test games this weekend with Mortarion in the list. It did very well and I'm pleased. However, you have to make a lot of tough choices of what to include or exclude in the list if that's the route you're going to go. Also, if you take a CSM daemon prince for warp time, that guy won't have FNP, and it means you need to add even more Chaos Daemon Nurgle Daemon Princes to get the powers from the other tree. Plus, you will have a list with almost 0 shooting.

   
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 Virules wrote:
I've been almost exclusively playing Epidemius Nurgle Daemons all of 8th Ed. and I did some test games this weekend with Mortarion in the list. It did very well and I'm pleased. However, you have to make a lot of tough choices of what to include or exclude in the list if that's the route you're going to go. Also, if you take a CSM daemon prince for warp time, that guy won't have FNP, and it means you need to add even more Chaos Daemon Nurgle Daemon Princes to get the powers from the other tree. Plus, you will have a list with almost 0 shooting.


Would you mind posting your list? The pre mortarion one I mean.
I also play Nurgle Daemons and would find it very interesting.

With regards to the 0 shooting. I think the Plague Crawlers are going to be quite a big boon to Nurgle Daemons.
A long range mortar shooting attack fills a much needed hole.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/11 17:10:13


 
   
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II'll PM you the two pre-Mortarion lists I was running.

   
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How would you equip the BlightLord Terminators (in order to kill some MEQ and TEQ)? I would go with axes and blight launchers (better than plasma? I can't risk to lose a 57 pts model...) except for the sergent with the flail... 3d3 attacks my god.
   
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Can the new terminators all take flail?
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




broxus wrote:
Can the new terminators all take flail?


You want to 1 shoot 50 man blobs , don't you ? Sadly noone knows or more like some people who have codex already know , but they don't want to /can't tell.

Well I doubt all can, but hopefully at least 2 can like with PM.
   
 
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