Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The point is, that extreme fringe is growing.

Got a source to back that up?

Grey Templar wrote:Given the uptick in islamic terror attacks everywhere, it's becoming more and more difficult to believe it's just "fringe maniacs" who are performing these acts. You really cannot blame anybody who is becoming fed up with it. Repeating the mantra of "It's not all Muslims!" really starts to sound hollow.

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 feeder wrote:

I don't throw around "racist" casually. But when dreck like this gets posted, I'll call it what it is.

To be clear, "Maybe all Muslims are terrorists", is racist, and should be addressed as such.

Agreed. But Grey Templar didn't say that, did he? He said that the minority of Muslims who commit violent acts is growing.

No, he said it's not just fringe maniacs, and Not All Muslims sounds hollow. It's certainly what he was inferring.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Oh give over. "Racist" gets thrown around so casually on Dakka Dakka that I just can't take it seriously.

Did you just lump me in with the entirety of the Dakka population while complaining about generalizations?

I don't throw around "racist" casually. But when dreck likethis gets posted, I'll call it what it is.

To be clear, "Maybe all Muslims are terrorists", is racist, and should be addressed as such.

Agreed. But Grey Templar didn't say that, did he? He said that the minority of Muslims who commit violent acts is growing.

That is not what he said. What was actually called out was this:

Given the uptick in islamic terror attacks everywhere, it's becoming more and more difficult to believe it's just "fringe maniacs" who are performing these acts. You really cannot blame anybody who is becoming fed up with it. Repeating the mantra of "It's not all Muslims!" really starts to sound hollow.

That is definitely a bigoted statement. Replace references to Muslims with men, blacks, Christians or something else if you need to see it in another light.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Agreed. But Grey Templar didn't say that, did he? He said that the minority of Muslims who commit violent acts is growing.

No, he said:

Given the uptick in islamic terror attacks everywhere, it's becoming more and more difficult to believe it's just "fringe maniacs" who are performing these acts. You really cannot blame anybody who is becoming fed up with it. Repeating the mantra of "It's not all Muslims!" really starts to sound hollow.

He isn't suggesting the fringe is growing, he is flat out suggesting that it isn't the fringe people carrying out attacks.

EDIT: When three separate posters all respond independently saying the same thing, maybe you should go back and re-read what Templar actually said SCE.

Or he's saying there's a clear uptick in attacks carried out by individuals who say "Allahu Akbar"

Try again...

 skyth wrote:
Try again...

If more people carry out terrorist attacks, then terrorist attacks aren't done only by "the fringe" anymore. Read between the lines.

So I guess it's mainstream Christians who are committing terrorist acts as well...Nice to know.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Given the uptick in islamic terror attacks everywhere, it's becoming more and more difficult to believe it's just "fringe maniacs" who are performing these acts. You really cannot blame anybody who is becoming fed up with it. Repeating the mantra of "It's not all Muslims!" really starts to sound hollow.

Except is really IS a fringe element. Look at the number of Muslims in the UK, then look at how many have carried out these attacks. TINY proportion.

Same as it's a fringe element of gun owners that shoot up schools or a fringe element of Christians who dress up in white robes and attack Black people. Does "it's not all gun owners" or "it's not all Christians" sound just as hollow?

I can taste the sarcasm and intellectual dishonesty from here, friend.

Intellectual dishonesty is a lot easier to taste when it's coming from yourself...

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I can taste the sarcasm and intellectual dishonesty from here, friend.

This coming from someone who complained about strawmen and then turned around to launch a bunch of strawmen himself.

I'm out before this thread inevitably gets locked because some posters can't accept that they keep posting racist gak.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I can taste the sarcasm and intellectual dishonesty from here, friend.

This coming from someone who complained about strawmen and then turned around to launch a bunch of strawmen himself.

I'm out before this thread inevitably gets locked because some posters can't accept that they keep posting racist gak.

Thats subjective. And the remark in question doesn't even meet the definition of Racism. Bigotry or prejudice, maybe.

There's often racism mixed in with anti-Muslim bigotry, as it's against the brown skinned ones more than others...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Are we now arguing that gender roles don't exist and that men are inherently scumbags?

No, we know men are inherently scumbags. Thats at least how I treat all the daughter's dates...

To the topic, if we assume for the moment that "the fringe" is growing, that needs to be dealt with and I believe the UK is at least attempting to do that with messaging etc.
We should remember, the VAST number of victims in terrorist actions are other muslims and they, like all Brits, have a vested interest in dealing with this, if nothing else from enlightened self interest.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I can taste the sarcasm and intellectual dishonesty from here, friend.

This coming from someone who complained about strawmen and then turned around to launch a bunch of strawmen himself.

I'm out before this thread inevitably gets locked because some posters can't accept that they keep posting racist gak.

Thats subjective. And the remark in question doesn't even meet the definition of Racism. Bigotry or prejudice, maybe.

Splitting hairs, really. It's not like it's a point system. Gak speech is gak speech.

When you're impugning someone's character I think its important to get your terms correct, no? Unless you don't care about people taking you seriously (see my prior remark). "Racist" gets thrown around so casually that it's lost all meaning.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When you're impugning someone's character I think its important to get your terms correct, no?

I regard a bigot and a racist as equally vile.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When you're impugning someone's character I think its important to get your terms correct, no?

I regard a bigot and a racist as equally vile.

bigot
ˈbɪɡət/
noun
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

You're being pretty intolerant of opposing opinions I think.

 skyth wrote:
Intellectual dishonesty is a lot easier to taste when it's coming from yourself...

Is there something I said that's intellectually dishonest or are you referring to yourself?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When you're impugning someone's character I think its important to get your terms correct, no?

I regard a bigot and a racist as equally vile.

bigot
ˈbɪɡət/
noun
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

You're being pretty intolerant of opposing opinions I think.

Ninja'd

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

You're being pretty intolerant of opposing opinions I think.

The ol' "stop being intolerant of intolerance" play.

Who would best express that as a meme? Pepe? Yoda? Cookie Monster?

Muslims aren't a race. The only people who bring race into the mixture are left leaning terror apologists who claim that being anti-muslim is racist. The irony is that they're the ones being racist when they say that. Left wingers also need to learn to actually formulate actual arguments instead of just yelling ''bigot'' or ''racist'' whenever someone has the gall to disagree with them. It just makes you look like a rabid loon.

And while Islamic terroism may have once been a truly fringe element. It's growing, rapidly. And it enjoys at the very least toleration from many more moderate muslims. It may not be mainstream, but it's not really fringe anymore.

Its also highly incorrect to draw parallels with any right wing terrorism. There isn't a highly organized terror group radicalizing christians and other right wingers enmass. There isn't a growing number of right wing inspired terrorism beginning to plague western civilization.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 skyth wrote:
Intellectual dishonesty is a lot easier to taste when it's coming from yourself...

Is there something I said that's intellectually dishonest or are you referring to yourself?

A lot that you said.

 feeder wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

You're being pretty intolerant of opposing opinions I think.

The ol' "stop being intolerant of intolerance" play.

Who would best express that as a meme? Pepe? Yoda? Cookie Monster?

And yet when people say we should not tolerate Islamist intolerance, you call them racist. The Double Think is strong with you.

Edit: Pepe, I think. Love that meme, always cracks me up how easily it pisses people off.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When you're impugning someone's character I think its important to get your terms correct, no?

I regard a bigot and a racist as equally vile.

bigot
ˈbɪɡət/
noun
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

You're being pretty intolerant of opposing opinions I think.

Or

bigot
noun [ C ] UK ​ /ˈbɪɡ.ət/ US ​ /ˈbɪɡ.ət/ disapproving
​
a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life:

Or

Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

I think disparaging remarks against millions of people based on the actions of a couple thousand (including the whole of IS in here) fits the definition of "unreasonable", wouldn't you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

You're being pretty intolerant of opposing opinions I think.

The ol' "stop being intolerant of intolerance" play.

Who would best express that as a meme? Pepe? Yoda? Cookie Monster?

And yet when people say we should not tolerate Islamist intolerance, you call them racist. The Double Think is strong with you.

Where in this thread did someone get called racist for saying we shouldn't tolerate religious intolerance?

 feeder wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

You're being pretty intolerant of opposing opinions I think.

The ol' "stop being intolerant of intolerance" play.

I didn't know being intolerant of terrorists was a bad thing.

 Grey Templar wrote:

And while Islamic terroism may have once been a truly fringe element. It's growing, rapidly. And it enjoys at the very least toleration from many more moderate muslims. It may not be mainstream, but it's not really fringe anymore.

You better have a source for this, right fething now.

Also, just like to point out to people who were defending what he said on the previous page as saying the fringe is growing that he is here saying that the moderates are apparently "tolerating" it.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its also highly incorrect to draw parallels with any right wing terrorism. There isn't a highly organized terror group radicalizing christians and other right wingers enmass. There isn't a growing number of right wing inspired terrorism beginning to plague western civilization.

Well the one a couple of days ago was a right wing terrorist attack would you not say?

 Grey Templar wrote:

Muslims aren't a race. The only people who bring race into the mixture are left leaning terror apologists who claim that being anti-muslim is racist. The irony is that they're the ones being racist when they say that. Left wingers also need to learn to actually formulate actual arguments instead of just yelling ''bigot'' or ''racist'' whenever someone has the gall to disagree with them. It just makes you look like a rabid loon.

Except in this case, they were calling out an actually gakky opinion. And racism does contribute to anti-Muslim beliefs, as if the majority of Muslims were white like the majority of people holding the anti-Muslim beliefs, there would almost certainly be less anti-Muslim beliefs.

Of course, referring to people as 'terror apologists' when they call people out on having gakky and unsupported opinions, doesn't help your position any.

And while Islamic terroism may have once been a truly fringe element. It's growing, rapidly. And it enjoys at the very least toleration from many more moderate muslims. It may not be mainstream, but it's not really fringe anymore.

Replace 'Muslim' with 'Christian' and you would have just as true of statement. Just look at the lack of outrage over the Christian terrorist that shot up an abortion clinic in Colorado from the vocal representatives of Christianity.

Its also highly incorrect to draw parallels with any right wing terrorism. There isn't a highly organized terror group radicalizing christians and other right wingers enmass. There isn't a growing number of right wing inspired terrorism beginning to plague western civilization.

It's perfectly correct to draw parallels. Right wing extremist terrorism has been growing as well. And there are definitely groups that attempt to radicalize people. Operation Rescue, the KKK, various Militia/Neo-Nazi groups, etc...

Hey I know, lets all ratchet back the calling each other racist/emotion thing going on in the last two pages.