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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/unit-focus-necron-cryptek-with-canoptek-cloakgw-homepage-post-2/

Cryptek reveal... Kinda feels.... Like a waste of time and effort!
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Immotek is amazing though. He is our Abbadon. He may cost 200 but he does the job of 2 overlords, while regening CP's as well as providing one and then his storm ability is very strong. Sure it's one use, but with a CP reroll it only fails once in 36 games and averages ~4 mortal wounds. Thats pretty solid when you knock out a quad heavy bolter or unit of reapers first turn. Splash damage is just extra gravy. I think he is our most efficient HQ by a mile.


He's good, but I think you're dead wrong on the efficiency part. Or at least half wrong.

See, in terms of points, I'm entirely in agreement. For about the same cost as 2 Overlords, he brings the same buff, plus several other nice things.

However, we then get to the issue of Detachments, where the Stormlord is far less efficient. Because, whilst those 2 Overlords might be less efficient in points, they're far more efficient in terms of Detachment because each one of them can fill out a mandatory HQ slot. Meanwhile, the Stormlord is stuck filling out just one slot - so you need another HQ on top of the 200pts you've spent already.

And, quite honestly, I don't think it's worth bringing more of our HQs than you absolutely need. Especially when we lack any cheap HQs to fill out mandatory slots.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




Kdash wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/unit-focus-necron-cryptek-with-canoptek-cloakgw-homepage-post-2/

Cryptek reveal... Kinda feels.... Like a waste of time and effort!


The article claims that it's only a few extra points to take the Cloak -- but it's that or the chronometron, not both, and the cloak costs less. They likely mean a few points over the base cost of the model, but GW rarely writes with clarity.
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

Kdash wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/unit-focus-necron-cryptek-with-canoptek-cloakgw-homepage-post-2/

Cryptek reveal... Kinda feels.... Like a waste of time and effort!


Which part is the Canoptek Cloak?

Is it supposed to be that scarab-thing he's riding?

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Major General





Florence, KY

 vipoid wrote:
Kdash wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/unit-focus-necron-cryptek-with-canoptek-cloakgw-homepage-post-2/

Cryptek reveal... Kinda feels.... Like a waste of time and effort!


Which part is the Canoptek Cloak?

Is it supposed to be that scarab-thing he's riding?

Yes. That is the cloak.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 15:24:38


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut





Huh, I just noticed; it says in the codex that you MAY take a Chrometron or a Canoptek cloak on a Cryptek. You can get a pretty cheap Cryptek by not taking anything.

A basic Cryptek will only cost 80 points, 7 more than a Lord. And he comes with a Staff of Light, which can be upgraded to one of the Relic staffs.

I've always seen the 5++ a bit pointless for my Warrior blobs. When are you gonna get shot by massive amounts of AP-2 stuff? Eldar Bladestorm and Rubric Marines are the only thing I can come up with.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 15:31:19


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 vipoid wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Immotek is amazing though. He is our Abbadon. He may cost 200 but he does the job of 2 overlords, while regening CP's as well as providing one and then his storm ability is very strong. Sure it's one use, but with a CP reroll it only fails once in 36 games and averages ~4 mortal wounds. Thats pretty solid when you knock out a quad heavy bolter or unit of reapers first turn. Splash damage is just extra gravy. I think he is our most efficient HQ by a mile.


He's good, but I think you're dead wrong on the efficiency part. Or at least half wrong.

See, in terms of points, I'm entirely in agreement. For about the same cost as 2 Overlords, he brings the same buff, plus several other nice things.

However, we then get to the issue of Detachments, where the Stormlord is far less efficient. Because, whilst those 2 Overlords might be less efficient in points, they're far more efficient in terms of Detachment because each one of them can fill out a mandatory HQ slot. Meanwhile, the Stormlord is stuck filling out just one slot - so you need another HQ on top of the 200pts you've spent already.

And, quite honestly, I don't think it's worth bringing more of our HQs than you absolutely need. Especially when we lack any cheap HQs to fill out mandatory slots.


If your taking 2 overlords then your lacking crypteks aren't you? If your skipping on crypteks in your battalion your doing it wrong. Infantry needs the invuln and boost to RP. So in a battalion if your going to match the overlord efficiency of Immotek you would need two OL plus that cryptek. There is no way of slicing it where you pay less tax and get away with more CP's. Immotek brings the CP of an entire detachment alone while also filling an HQ for a battalion. All while doing the job of two OL.

So sure you can take two OL (188) in a battalion while I will take Immotek and a cryptek (295). But I am getting the exact same milage as you PLUS the cryptek AND I am getting another detachments CP, good luck getting that cryptek and filling a nother detachment with 107 points...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 15:34:27


   
Made in us
Major General





Florence, KY

Doctoralex wrote:
Huh, I just noticed; it says in the codex that you MAY take a Chrometron or a Canoptek cloak on a Cryptek. You can get a pretty cheap Cryptek by not taking anything.

For just five points, the cloak is an auto take if you're not using the chronometron.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






I wouldn't give every cryptek a cronometron, but the fact it buffs things like destroyers is nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone considered Nihilak wraiths? If you position objectives smart it shouldn't be hard to get them to assault near them and that stratagem can give them a 2++

I suppose this makes them even more vulnerable to Smite, but mind you not every army is loaded with smite, especially with the beta rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 15:46:07


   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 Red Corsair wrote:
If your taking 2 overlords then your lacking crypteks aren't you?


Well, I was using the example of 2 Overlords because that's what the Stormlord was compared to. In terms of whether we'd actually want 2 Overlords in the first place, I agree that that's an important question.

Personally, whilst I like having MWBD, I don't find it to be a particularly outstanding buff in most cases. What's more, there are other HQs I'd be considering as well - most notably Crypteks (possibly also a Destroyer Lord, because I'd want to use my model even if the rules are lacklustre).

 Red Corsair wrote:
If your skipping on crypteks in your battalion your doing it wrong. Infantry needs the invuln and boost to RP.


Does it not depend at all on the infantry you have? I thought the consensus with the index was that Crypteks were good with Warriors but largely wasted on Immortals?

 Red Corsair wrote:
So in a battalion if your going to match the overlord efficiency of Immotek you would need two OL plus that cryptek. There is no way of slicing it where you pay less tax and get away with more CP's. Immotek brings the CP of an entire detachment alone while also filling an HQ for a battalion. All while doing the job of two OL.


True.

 Red Corsair wrote:

So sure you can take two OL (188) in a battalion while I will take Immotek and a cryptek (295). But I am getting the exact same milage as you PLUS the cryptek AND I am getting another detachments CP, good luck getting that cryptek and filling a nother detachment with 107 points...


Or I could take a Cryptek instead of one of the Overlords? Hell, I could take Crypteks in place of both of them if I value them more. I don't see why this is such a massive issue.

Also, I might not be able to get another detachment for 107pts, but I could get another Destroyer and Heavy Destroyer. In all honesty, I would probably value them more than 1CP and an extra use of MWBD.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ie
Deranged Necron Destroyer





You could just take a Sautekh Overlord and Cryptek and use the 1CP Stratgem to MWBD twice? Cheaper then Imotekh and a Cryptek, can still take the Sautekh Dynasty trait. You do lose an Extra CP but that won't matter if you can finish the game early.

And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 16:05:08


I have a Youtube. Rage Against The Imperium. Here is the link if you are interested - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WxDMsMyI7WcChiSfApB4Q

Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

I've been looking at Novokh and just had a terrible idea for dealing with Dawneagle Captains and the like:

CCB- Blood Scythe, anti-character WL trait

That's a potential 9 attacks, rerolling misses against enemy heroes. Good/bad idea?

My battle report thread:
Ars Scripta Batreps 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 Odrankt wrote:
And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

Indeed, please let me kill your Overlord on turn 1. CCB is not a Character and thus can be targeted.

-

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 Galef wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

Indeed, please let me kill your Overlord on turn 1. CCB is not a Character and thus can be targeted.

-


Command Barge still has the character keyword in the codex, and has less than 10 wounds. So he can't be targeted unless he's the closest target.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






@ Vpoid I mean your examining Immotek with extreme prejudiced but then stating you want to take sub-optimal options just because. Similar to the FO discussion, I am not going to tell you what to take. I am being objective. He is an incredible buy for an army if you are looking at acquiring CP's and having a buff character.

Of course you can always take a bare bones battalion for 335. But it won't add much to your army beyond CP's. Perhaps this is an option if your spamming destroyers from another detachment, but now your army is incredibly thin on the ground and won't have much board control.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 16:10:47


   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






It is a character, though. You might want to check before you attack people’s ideas.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
I've been looking at Novokh and just had a terrible idea for dealing with Dawneagle Captains and the like:

CCB- Blood Scythe, anti-character WL trait

That's a potential 9 attacks, rerolling misses against enemy heroes. Good/bad idea?


I like it. I think I'd go all in on FO and/or scarabs and wraiths from that detachment.

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

Darsath wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

Indeed, please let me kill your Overlord on turn 1. CCB is not a Character and thus can be targeted.

-


Command Barge still has the character keyword in the codex, and has less than 10 wounds. So he can't be targeted unless he's the closest target.

I was looking at the Index (where it does NOT have the character keyword). Very nice. I didn't think they'd change that.

I concede, CCB is the obvious choice then.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 16:19:52


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I don't know ifthey were ever really taken but the Night shroud is not in the codex. Index unit only apparently.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

mhalko1 wrote:
I don't know ifthey were ever really taken but the Night shroud is not in the codex. Index unit only apparently.


The Night Shroud? Isn't that FW?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 Odrankt wrote:
You could just take a Sautekh Overlord and Cryptek and use the 1CP Stratgem to MWBD twice? Cheaper then Imotekh and a Cryptek, can still take the Sautekh Dynasty trait. You do lose an Extra CP but that won't matter if you can finish the game early.

And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.


Except now your taking a battalion to gain CP's that you will then be using right off to compensate for the deficiencies.

   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

Here's another way I'm looking at Imotekh:

Assuming you wanted a Battalion and at least one other 1 CP detachment, he can take the place of 2 HQs for a similar price.

Say you have 3 troops and 3 Elites for a 7 CP army. You need 3 HQs for this. Or you could just take Imotekh and one HQ and keep it as a Battalion- it will be a similar cost and the same amount of CPs.

Taken like this he seems a decent choice. The problem I've been having is that if I'm writing a list where I need 3 HQ's, I can't justify making one of them cost 200pts. The tax is already way too high.

So, while he seems pretty good on paper, it's really a question of how he fits into the detachments you're taking as to whether or not you want him. Most of the time his +1CP won't be a bonus, it will just make him an equal choice compared with 2 cheaper HQs.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 JNAProductions wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
I don't know ifthey were ever really taken but the Night shroud is not in the codex. Index unit only apparently.


The Night Shroud? Isn't that FW?


Yes it may be. Good catch. I was just looking at units on battlescribe back to back with the codex pages and they don't list units as being from FW anymore.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

I just want to take a moment to appreciate skoffs for the term salad, it's like soup but using a single codex. I will henceforth be using this to describe multi dynasty necron armies.

I saw a question earlier about this being a beta codex and the answer is yes, there will almost assuredly be changes between the leak and what hits the shelves. For instance several units didn't get a balance pass, such as the obelisk.

Immohotek is interesting, He is actually a fairly good choice for salads since his MWBD can affect any necron unit regardless of dynasty. So you can grab a patrol or such from another dynasty and not have to bring along an overlord. For the points though I think I would rather have the nemesor, his second buff is not as reliable, but counter tactics is such a hard counter to so many builds with all of the chapter masters and primarchs we see on the board.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

What's the range on Counter Tactics, though?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Here's another way I'm looking at Imotekh:

Assuming you wanted a Battalion and at least one other 1 CP detachment, he can take the place of 2 HQs for a similar price.

Say you have 3 troops and 3 Elites for a 7 CP army. You need 3 HQs for this. Or you could just take Imotekh and one HQ and keep it as a Battalion- it will be a similar cost and the same amount of CPs.

Taken like this he seems a decent choice. The problem I've been having is that if I'm writing a list where I need 3 HQ's, I can't justify making one of them cost 200pts. The tax is already way too high.

So, while he seems pretty good on paper, it's really a question of how he fits into the detachments you're taking as to whether or not you want him. Most of the time his +1CP won't be a bonus, it will just make him an equal choice compared with 2 cheaper HQs.


He works best in a battalion that your fleshing out. If all your trying to do is farm CP's taking thin battalions then he won't be worth it. I also really like his storm ability though, something that think other posters are really underestimating. It's literally a big smite with 48 inch range that you pick the target as long as it isn't a character below 10 wounds, that then little smites on a 16% chance anything nearby. How this can wilfully be ignored as piece of the equation is bizarre to me.

   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

Imotekh can only target Sautekh with MWBD if he wants to do it twice.

He is always worth considering because he can be as good as 2 HQs for similar price. He isn't in any way amazing though.

The storm is just ok, it depends what you're up against. There's a decent chance you just do a couple of wounds to something. It's out on it's own and not part of any strategy your building for.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 16:31:18


 
   
Made in us
Major General





Florence, KY

 Galef wrote:
Darsath wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

Indeed, please let me kill your Overlord on turn 1. CCB is not a Character and thus can be targeted.

-


Command Barge still has the character keyword in the codex, and has less than 10 wounds. So he can't be targeted unless he's the closest target.

I was looking at the Index (where it does NOT have the character keyword). Very nice. I didn't think they'd change that.

I concede, CCB is the obvious choice then.

-

It was updated to have the CHARACTER keyword in the first FAQ for Index Xenos 1.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

 JNAProductions wrote:
What's the range on Counter Tactics, though?


12", but that's plenty for most in your face special characters like mortarion or Dante.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Someone was asking about Nemesor earlier so apparently that stuck in my mind when I went back and was reading.

Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit… *snickers* Damnit brain.

I don’t know why, but I just imagined a cryptek porting Nemesor up with this to the 9" mark and then Obyron appearing with his squad even closer with ghost walk mantle for a very amusing squad hop. Also since this is all done in the same phase that means you could mwbd the group obyron is taking before they get dropped into a 3-4 inch charge.

Granted in the same light I kind of want to run a monolith and GI it forward if only so I can play a song from my phone and then say 'Its show time' like hes exiting onto a stage. *Que welcome to the jungle as Obyron and team appear on the stage around him before rushing in*

It feels a little wasteful but im a filthy casual so #Presentation

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/13 16:46:06


I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.  
   
 
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