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Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Albertorius wrote:
That's honestly never been a problem for us. We just put the ammo where it feels more logical (like in the same location as the weapon or the ones besides it).

And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?


yup and a lotta people approuch that, that and record sheet programs are why TBH RS books themselves sell kinda poorly.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?
Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.

   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?
Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.


that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?
Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.

In a single die, the chances of showing one particular face are exactly the same as the chances of showing any other, about 16% each (and the chances of getting 1-3 or 4-6 are, of course, 50%), so I don't think it's that much of a problem, TBH.

But sticking more or less to the way things are usually done, as you said, tends to work pretty well.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.

   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






I'm more irked with stuff like arm weapons being fed by ammo in the legs... that really does baffle my mind ^^
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs


Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Ok, yeah, there are some baffling design choices like that (the Hatamoto-[X] line of 'Mechs spring to mind instantly).

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


What you've mentioned here is why I absolutely despise custom-made mechs by players. Because, like with all games, in Battletech there are just as many "mathhammer" opportunities to make an optimized mech. However doing so is player driven, and ignores the fake "reality" of the Battletech universe.

In arms production on any scale you'll have all the bs you find in modern arms manufacturing....

+Questionable contractors
+Poorly negotiated terms
+Shortcuts taken with or without permission
+Lack of specific materials
+Political issues/bickering preventing the use of premium equipment
+Poor workshop or factory conditions
+Lack of materials or equipment/ammunition to do the ongoing war effort, embargoes, planetary blockades
+Selfish pride that prevents a country/faction from using better equipment because they'd rather use self-produced gear
+Industrial espionage
+Changing contracts and plans due to political shifts or power vacuums
+Delayed projects which are sub-par by the time their released because they're so late
+Poor finances so you're buying used and abused goods from a larger nearby power
+Desperation in design because the war happened quick and you're making whatever you can, regardless of quality just to get it out the fething door!
etc. etc. etc.

It's this kind of stuff that is so often ignored in almost every wargame. "Ugh why is this designed that way? It's lame and would be better like this..."

Because that's just how it was fething designed, lol. Ask any soldier from a grunt in the field to a general if they're 100% happy with their equipment they're using? Not a single one in our world would say "Yep, everything is 100% and good to go!"

Every military weapon or procurement process has flaws...heaps of them. In the "god mode" that is controlling a wargame, we have the luxury of ignoring this all too often. I know there are some fan mod systems for building more realistic mechs, etc...but it's all the reasons above that I love the awkward and occasionally stupid mechs of 3025. It's why the Clan mechs, while fantastic, often feel cold. In many instances they're nearly perfectly designed for their roles and tasks.

It's actually the same mindset that makes me take sub-optimal armies in 40K. I like to imagine my armies fighting with their sub-par selected units - why? Because that's what was there. A perfect mathhammer force wasn't available to that field commander at that moment, so he's getting the job done with the units he has available. It's a mechanism which is just absent in waaaaay too many wargames.

/rant

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 08:43:52


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Not that custom designs can't be fun. Yes, it's very easy to load a 'Mech up with Clan Pulse Lasers and a Targeting Computer, but that gets old.

It's more fun to come up with weird ideas and see if you can make them work. Right now I've been experimenting with Improved Jump Jets and Partial Wings. The aim? Not to make the world's most amazing killing machine, but rather to see how far I can make a 'Mech fly and still have it be useful. I mean, can you imagine the look on an opponent's face when a 100-ton 'Mech jumps 7 hexes behind them?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/10 08:51:52


   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ok, yeah, there are some baffling design choices like that (the Hatamoto-[X] line of 'Mechs spring to mind instantly).


Well, taking into account that they're fething Charger mods, I'd call them brilliant

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 08:54:00


 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not that custom designs can't be fun. Yes, it's very easy to load a 'Mech up with Clan Pulse Lasers and a Targeting Computer, but that gets old.

It's more fun to come up with weird ideas and see if you can make them work. Right now I've been experimenting with Improved Jump Jets and Partial Wings. The aim? Not to make the world's most amazing killing machine, but rather to see how far I can make a 'Mech fly and still have it be useful. I mean, can you imagine the look on an opponent's face when a 100-ton 'Mech jumps 7 hexes behind them?



yeah I long ago moved on from optimized designs to "designs with character and a story behind them"

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






It really is so much more fun that way
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

https://bg.battletech.com/news/sneak-peek-battletech-clan-invasion-boxed-set-contents/?fbclid=IwAR20qFCZDNUZMMrpKF9bmrbXjQCAmPSUIp075LsrQtNNtTnfEw7DdeDhHlY

Kerensky is coming!

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in us
Major General






Florence, KY

Spoiler:


I really like the new Executioner and Grendel.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Sister Oh-So Repentia





Philadelphia

I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order. Considering that the other intro box is $80 with 8 mechs (before discount) $50 is really high for 5 mechs during a kickstarter by a company that has produced figures of mixed quality and has had logistics issues regarding supply and shipping in the past. I want to be excited about this, but it’s going to really need to make money sense. I don’t need them to go insane with what they offer, but I need it to be much closer to $5 a mech than $10.

My 3D printing modular terrain thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/493250.page 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Grendel hey? Interesting choice. Looks good too. The Man'O'War looks mean!

 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order.
Like most miniature Kickstarters. *shrugs*

   
Made in us
Sister Oh-So Repentia





Philadelphia

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order.
Like most miniature Kickstarters. *shrugs*


You’re right like most. I’ve done a couple dozen kickstarters in my time so I know how they break down and there are plenty I’ve passed on because they were effectively a 20% discount on retail. The language being used by this one so far suggests that the stretch goals will be purchasable options, as opposed to there being an “all in” selection with either kickstarter exclusive stuff (which I never really expected from this) or a rising discount as more stuff gets added.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 03:02:01


My 3D printing modular terrain thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/493250.page 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Albertorius wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs


Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas


Don't question the bipedal onsen.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Mmmpi wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs


Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas


Don't question the bipedal onsen.


.. I love how you instantly knew I was thinking of the Panther

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






Well, the 10K is kinda... notorious
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

I hope you are not trying to disrespect a honored product of the Dragon, otherwise the guys from the ISF might want a word with you.

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Miguelsan wrote:
I hope you are not trying to disrespect a honored product of the Dragon, otherwise the guys from the ISF might want a word with you.

M.

Panther 10K, CGR-1A1 the Daboku... yup the combine's certainly know for quality mech design!

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Miguelsan wrote:
Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.


the fluff justification for that is hilarious. Apparently they use the design to punish dissidant soldiers...

yes they punish dissidant soldiers by giving them an ASSAULT MECH and deliberatly sabotoging it. This ladies and gentlemen is why the FedSuns won the 4th sucession war.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






Honestly, I love that kinda wacky stuff ^^
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

BrianDavion wrote:
 Miguelsan wrote:
Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.


the fluff justification for that is hilarious. Apparently they use the design to punish dissidant soldiers...

yes they punish dissidant soldiers by giving them an ASSAULT MECH and deliberatly sabotoging it. This ladies and gentlemen is why the FedSuns won the 4th sucession war.


Probably it was a Ceres Metals exec covering his ass when the marketed product failed to live to the expectations.

And that's also a great thing from the Btech fluff.

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in ca
Krazed Killa Kan




Monarchy of TBD

 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order. Considering that the other intro box is $80 with 8 mechs (before discount) $50 is really high for 5 mechs during a kickstarter by a company that has produced figures of mixed quality and has had logistics issues regarding supply and shipping in the past. I want to be excited about this, but it’s going to really need to make money sense. I don’t need them to go insane with what they offer, but I need it to be much closer to $5 a mech than $10.


The value for the main box does look low compared to the A Game of Armored Combat. For now.

Something to consider is that those shots they posted do not show the back of the box, nor do they show the diecut cardboard sheet. Both of those are difficult to change if Catalyst has already developed the product, which I'm inclined to think they have, based off of the pictures of lances and Stars in retail packaging. So my conspiracy theory is that some of their planned stretch goals will be additions to the retail version of this box. I predict by the end it'll be up to 8 mechs to make the price per mech match the Game of Armored Combat.


Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.

 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






Well, if they're going for "fieldable" units there shoud be either one or two stars in the box.
   
 
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