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Removal of fly keyword was just an attempt to nerf marine units that didn't need to be nerfed. Which is too bad - removal of fly made the impulsor/ repuslors even more unplayable.
with the nerf to the fly keyword, removing the gravitic backlash rule couldve been enough probably.
But then i'd expect the admech Dunerider to gain the fly keyword.
Better off without it. The dunecrawler has about the same firepower as the gladiator lancer for about 60 points less. Lancer might be slightly more durable but I'd say the durability is a wash with one being t8 and the other having a 5++ with reroll 1's. The only practical difference is maneuverability - which they are charging the lancer way too much fore and they still removed fly keyword from it.
The only reason why Gladiators/Repulsors/Astraeus have the fly/hover/whatever they have now keyword is because of the model itself, not because of the rules. Theyre all hover vehicles.
Both skorpius variants have a hovercraft look to them (and were even marketed as hovering tanks).
And the skorpius is only good because they fill niches that admech never had before (codex transport and artillery)
The are anti grav tanks. There is no practical reason why anti grav wouldn't work at any altitude. Not to mention they have rocket thrusters. They should have fly keyword. It was removed because marines needed to be nerfed. Flying tanks is OP man.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
The Repulsor is so heavily armed and armoured that it does not skim over the landscape in the manner of a Space Marine reconnaissance craft like the Land Speeder, but instead crushes the ground below it. The tank grinds forward with a deep bass thrum, reducing rock to gravel and fallen bodies to smears of gore and powdered bone.
Taken from the warhammer40k wiki. Read the exact same description in BL books.
They 100% do not fly up in the sky like land speeders. Theyre basically the same as Skorpius, low to the ground vehicles that don't use tracks/wheels
Alcibiades wrote: Remember when 8th came out and people were complaining that vehicles were too tough?
nope, i started playing a month before codex Space wolves came out. Did people actually freak out about that lol?
Yes.
But to be fair many of our fello games will lose thier gak over almost any addition or change to the rules. Or the model ranges. Or both. Or the lack of changes. Or.... So its not like you need to treat alot of the noise as anything but.
They were upset that vehicles couldn't be killed in a single shot, then the points changes came out as the edition evolved and most vehicles became pretty bad.
ClockworkZion wrote: They were upset that vehicles couldn't be killed in a single shot, then the points changes came out as the edition evolved and most vehicles became pretty bad.
ClockworkZion wrote: They were upset that vehicles couldn't be killed in a single shot, then the points changes came out as the edition evolved and most vehicles became pretty bad.
Alcibiades wrote: Remember when 8th came out and people were complaining that vehicles were too tough?
I don't. If you did any amount of math, or saw any vehicles on the same table as a unit of Hellblasters, you'd have seen vehicles were way too squishy from launch of 8e on top of getting way more expensive.
Alcibiades wrote: Remember when 8th came out and people were complaining that vehicles were too tough?
Of the vehicles that actualy were being used, you are not going to tell me that eldar flyers with stacking of minus to hit or the pre nerf castellan weren't tough.
I don't think many people thought that stuff like normal dreads, pre sm 2.0, or land raiders or chimeras were just the right level of tough to be used.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Alcibiades wrote: Remember when 8th came out and people were complaining that vehicles were too tough?
I don't. If you did any amount of math, or saw any vehicles on the same table as a unit of Hellblasters, you'd have seen vehicles were way too squishy from launch of 8e on top of getting way more expensive.
Guilliman and mass Razorbacks says hi. To which you will no doubt say "but that's Guilliman" - sure, but if those Razorbacks (or Stormravens) could just be swept off the table it would have been something else.
I don't remember a mass freakout - nothing compared to "Necrons OP because 240 points of X can't clear 20 reanimating Necron warriors" - but the reality is on release of 8th the premier anti-tank option for many factions was the equivalent of "guy holding a lascannon". Which cost 25 points. Which made them very fragile and not especially reliable or capable.
It was as 8th ran on, as anti-tank got reduced in price, and buff stacking became more available that ye olde vehicles just couldn't hack it at all. Through to today where tanks can offer 150-200% returns to dedicated anti-tank units.
Alcibiades wrote: Remember when 8th came out and people were complaining that vehicles were too tough?
Of the vehicles that actualy were being used, you are not going to tell me that eldar flyers with stacking of minus to hit or the pre nerf castellan weren't tough.
I don't think many people thought that stuff like normal dreads, pre sm 2.0, or land raiders or chimeras were just the right level of tough to be used.
eldar flyers werent a thing at the start of 8th, and neither were castellans (the model litterally did not exist).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/17 14:32:34
The guilliman assback spam was because of firepower, not durability.
Just like Basilisk spam. Basilisks are not tough, but for a while in 8th they had a phenomenal gun for their points (man, imagine the earthshaker being a good gun. Lethality has certainly escalated).
As for Landing Gear et. al., those are indeed from editions before 4th, as were the immobilized=wrecked rule. When I talk about "Older Editions" I tend to mix them into a big grab bag, because the point is usually that "the right answer is in here somewhere. The fact that GW threw it out sometime whenever isn't the point". GW throws out right answers all the time in favor of other answers.
Immobilized skimmers being wrecked was a thing of 4th for sure, it was the edition i began with. Before Hull points were a thing and when facing mattered... god how many games dragged on with endless debates whether a shot hit side or rear...
Page 115 – Chaos Space Marine Datasheets
Add the following:
‘Many Chaos Space Marine units described in this section can be
fielded in Death Guard and Thousand Sons armies even though
you cannot normally replace the <Legion> keyword with either
Death Guard or Thousand Sons.
You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the Imperial
Armour Compendium to be from the Death Guard Legion. If you do:
• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Death Guard.
• That unit gains the Bubonic Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the seven Plague Companies,
and so also gains the <Plague Company> keyword.
You can choose for any <Legion> Tzeentch unit from the
Imperial Armour Compendium to be from the Thousand Sons
Legion. If you do:
• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Thousand Sons.
• That unit gains the Arcana Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the nine Great Cults, and so also
gains the <Great Cult> keyword.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
Unit1126PLL wrote: The guilliman assback spam was because of firepower, not durability.
Just like Basilisk spam. Basilisks are not tough, but for a while in 8th they had a phenomenal gun for their points (man, imagine the earthshaker being a good gun. Lethality has certainly escalated).
I think its always a function of both. As you say, lethality goes up, so relatively durability goes down.
Razorbacks were quite silly with their 12 S6 AP-1 1 damage shots for 100 points (this weirdly doesn't seem so crazy any more) - but they also brought 10 T7 wounds. Basilisks had what, 11 T6 wounds? That's potentially a lot of wounds to get through if your opponent is relying on comparatively low-buffed D6 damage weapons to do the job.
Which is why in Europe you occasionally saw things like Chimera spam win tournaments (I think ITC's "kill something/kill more" sort of forbade that style of list.)
Roughly a month after the book's release, fancy that.
Mostly fixing typos, it seems. Chaos and Relic Contemptors still cost 1CP more than plastic codex Contemptors, inexplicably. Both Fellblade Accelerator Cannon profiles officially stuck at Index level stats. Double melee weapon Contemptors still don't get a bonus attack, while all other dreadnoughts that can have two melee weapons do. Martial Legacy is still a garbage rule.
Good to see Death Guard and Thousand Sons can still have Legion vehicles. And Bubonic Astartes doesn't replace HERETIC, it's in addition to it. Seems gw still recognizes them as Legions after all. Good.
Good to see Death Guard and Thousand Sons can still have Legion vehicles. And Bubonic Astartes doesn't replace HERETIC, it's in addition to it. Seems gw still recognizes them as Legions after all. Good.
Exactly. I'm not even going to look at anything else in the FAQ. Just gonna take my small victory and run with it!
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
Roughly a month after the book's release, fancy that.
Mostly fixing typos, it seems. Chaos and Relic Contemptors still cost 1CP more than plastic codex Contemptors, inexplicably. Both Fellblade Accelerator Cannon profiles officially stuck at Index level stats. Double melee weapon Contemptors still don't get a bonus attack, while all other dreadnoughts that can have two melee weapons do. Martial Legacy is still a garbage rule.
Good to see Death Guard and Thousand Sons can still have Legion vehicles. And Bubonic Astartes doesn't replace HERETIC, it's in addition to it. Seems gw still recognizes them as Legions after all. Good.
CSM got the Vindicator laser destroyer back too. My email about missing sicarans probably came too late :(
Good to see Death Guard and Thousand Sons can still have Legion vehicles. And Bubonic Astartes doesn't replace HERETIC, it's in addition to it. Seems gw still recognizes them as Legions after all. Good.
Exactly. I'm not even going to look at anything else in the FAQ. Just gonna take my small victory and run with it!
Aye, this is good for Death Guard and Thousand Sons. Too bad you still have to pay CP for most of the units though.
Roughly a month after the book's release, fancy that.
Mostly fixing typos, it seems. Chaos and Relic Contemptors still cost 1CP more than plastic codex Contemptors, inexplicably. Both Fellblade Accelerator Cannon profiles officially stuck at Index level stats. Double melee weapon Contemptors still don't get a bonus attack, while all other dreadnoughts that can have two melee weapons do. Martial Legacy is still a garbage rule.
Good to see Death Guard and Thousand Sons can still have Legion vehicles. And Bubonic Astartes doesn't replace HERETIC, it's in addition to it. Seems gw still recognizes them as Legions after all. Good.
CSM got the Vindicator laser destroyer back too. My email about missing sicarans probably came too late :(
The Vindicator Laser Destroyer was available to the Legions in 8th, this is probably just fixing the omission, like the one for the Karybdis in CA2020. No reason not to keep pestering them about the other issues, like the missing Sicarans.
Still looks like running fluffy Night Lords lists will mean paying a CP tax for the foreseeable future. Guess I'll just take the hit. How about you Vlad?
The Vindicator Laser Destroyer was available to the Legions in 8th, this is probably just fixing the omission, like the one for the Karybdis in CA2020. No reason not to keep pestering them about the other issues, like the missing Sicarans.
Still looks like running fluffy Night Lords lists will mean paying a CP tax for the foreseeable future. Guess I'll just take the hit. How about you Vlad?
Eh, i don't mind that much paying 1CP for my levi. Its good enough to be worth it.
Now i just need to convert myself some uncorrupted chosen from my MK4 kit, probably lightning claws + meltas that i'll drop in with my dreadclaw.
I've been liking my bikers and raptors a lot, i'll need to get more of those.
I'm still waiting on FW to release their contektar termies so that i can get a squad + a land raider proteus to carry them.
The Vindicator Laser Destroyer was available to the Legions in 8th, this is probably just fixing the omission, like the one for the Karybdis in CA2020. No reason not to keep pestering them about the other issues, like the missing Sicarans.
Still looks like running fluffy Night Lords lists will mean paying a CP tax for the foreseeable future. Guess I'll just take the hit. How about you Vlad?
Eh, i don't mind that much paying 1CP for my levi. Its good enough to be worth it.
Now i just need to convert myself some uncorrupted chosen from my MK4 kit, probably lightning claws + meltas that i'll drop in with my dreadclaw.
I've been liking my bikers and raptors a lot, i'll need to get more of those.
I'm still waiting on FW to release their contektar termies so that i can get a squad + a land raider proteus to carry them.
Leviathans having Martial Legacy makes some sense, they were rare even during the Heresy. Contemptors, not so much. Particularly since loyalists can get them without the 1CP surcharge. Sicarans at least got a durability buff that helps soften the sting. But paying an additional 1CP for my Legion Super Heavys over any other LOW in the game is .
Still hoping Night Lords get some kind of "Daemons Are For Losers" rule that let's them ignore Martial Legacy in exchange for not using DAEMONIC keyword units. I can dream.
Not Online!!! wrote: So far i didn't hear from that Email in aeons.
Btw Gad did you finally hear something from there?
Granted maybee they attempt to let grass grow over and then fix it up, considering the quality was "outstandingly high"...
If they respond it's via FAQs and not direct emails.
well, we are within what now 1.5 months of it beeing out and off a quality that just barely reaches above used toiletpaper especially in consideration of the premium pricetag attached.
One wonders.
They did an initial FAQ, we're not due one until the next big FAQ in the spring. I'm not sure what expectations you have, but they don't line up with reality.
ClockworkZion wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote: Normal ones.
Frankly i am sure that it could even be argued that the lackluster and nonfunctioning gakshow that the compendium was warrants an more immediate response.
Alas GW as allready mentioned in another thread, rarely get's hold to task by it's community.
There is literally a schedule for this stuff. Complaining that they aren't exceeding that schedule rings of entitlement.
You had the FAQ for the Compendium confused with the Big Spring FAQ. Just a bit of a joke, sorry for the confusion.
Leviathans having Martial Legacy makes some sense, they were rare even during the Heresy. Contemptors, not so much. Particularly since loyalists can get them without the 1CP surcharge. Sicarans at least got a durability buff that helps soften the sting. But paying an additional 1CP for my Legion Super Heavys over any other LOW in the game is .
Still hoping Night Lords get some kind of "Daemons Are For Losers" rule that let's them ignore Martial Legacy in exchange for not using DAEMONIC keyword units. I can dream.
I'm still missing a ton of vehicles for my NL, right now theyre mostly infantry but i still need :
Land raider proteus
A deimos predator (thats sadly either gonna be legend or a count-as regular pred)
A contemptor
A sicaran
Maybe a supreheavy but i dont play at high pts level that often.
Luckily for me i'm less of a "puritain" when it comes to demons than you, my army does have a daemon engine contingent in it so i already have a decent amount of vehicles with them (blood slaughterer, disco lord, decimator)
ClockworkZion wrote:I own up that I did, that said the "day one" FAQ is usually around a month after release so it's on schedule.
On time, but lackluster. Still plenty of stuff they missed. If they'd just remove Martial Legacy from Contemptors and the LOWs and give Contemptors back their extra attack for double melee weapons I'd be happy.
That and fix the wording on Dreadclaws so they can deploy their cargo when they arrive. Otherwise, what's the point?
Leviathans having Martial Legacy makes some sense, they were rare even during the Heresy. Contemptors, not so much. Particularly since loyalists can get them without the 1CP surcharge. Sicarans at least got a durability buff that helps soften the sting. But paying an additional 1CP for my Legion Super Heavys over any other LOW in the game is .
Still hoping Night Lords get some kind of "Daemons Are For Losers" rule that let's them ignore Martial Legacy in exchange for not using DAEMONIC keyword units. I can dream.
I'm still missing a ton of vehicles for my NL, right now theyre mostly infantry but i still need :
Land raider proteus
A deimos predator (thats sadly either gonna be legend or a count-as regular pred)
A contemptor
A sicaran
Maybe a supreheavy but i dont play at high pts level that often.
Luckily for me i'm less of a "puritain" when it comes to demons than you, my army does have a daemon engine contingent in it so i already have a decent amount of vehicles with them (blood slaughterer, disco lord, decimator)
Definitely get a Contemptor. The Night Lords Contemptor is wicked. I've heard that the Proteus kit can be a pain, let me know how it turns out. Sicarans are much better now that they have a 2+ save. Got Dreadclaws?
Also, that's probably the first time I've ever been called a "puritain".
Edit: And "Ark of Unnameable Horror" was a way better name for the Chaos Proteus's special rule than "Exploratory Augury Web".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/17 22:02:42
Spring FAQ is when I expect to see the more complete IA update honestly. There is only so much that will get seen before they have to cut off the questions and finalize the changes before they release. I know parts of the internet are sure they should work on these documents until they're due, but a line has to be drawn somewhere if they have and hope of getting things done with any level of accuracy.
Definitely get a Contemptor. The Night Lords Contemptor is wicked. I've heard that the Proteus kit can be a pain, let me know how it turns out. Sicarans are much better now that they have a 2+ save. Got Dreadclaws?
Also, that's probably the first time I've ever been called a "puritain".
Edit: And "Ark of Unnameable Horror" was a way better name for the Chaos Proteus's special rule than "Exploratory Augury Web".
Yeah contemptor is 100% on my list. I didnt get one yet because i just finished painting two of them for my Thousand sons and i dislike painting the same model multiple times.
Proteus is my favorite visuals on tanks in 40k. Big tracks that go over the hull does something to my nether regions. I'm 100% gonna use it for the various land raider types (achilles, chaos, proteus).
Got a single dreadclaw right now, still unpainted because i gotta find some corpse bits or something to put on it.
.
