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GW succeeds in spite of itself (see full quotation in the OP, below).
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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Birmingham, UK

 jeff white wrote:
Umm,… dudeface, given that the poll results are valid concerning the official gw store in China, a rising market of well over a billion people with lots of extra young men with zero hopes of marrying, and without the thirty year background and anchor base of neck bearded hobbyists, it does seem to inform this thread, at least tangentially. I mean, it is certainly interesting to see those numbers, no? Do you really honestly think that Baron just made that up? Maybe drew the characters and fabricated the results just to make a point on this thread? I don’t believe that you really think that…

But then, what would count as having bearing on any of the above? For you?


Is there any part of the methodology of that poll that excludes, say, people from out of country from voting? Since that criterion would seem kind of relevant to indicatin b the size of local take up vis a vis the size of the Chinese market as a proportion of the international one.

Naturally, none of that context was, nor will be, provided.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jeff white wrote:
Ok, fair enough. Note that the original question is not about gw failing, but rather that it succeeds in spite of itself. Can gw count on similar success in China given the validity of Baron’s poll results? I mean, let’s just assume that they are what they are supposed to be… what might be different about that market, and can this tell us something about what we might expect, there? Can GW afford to depend on succeeding in spite of itself there, if that is indeed what is happening, ‘here’?


No, Jeff.

The original question that *you* posed was true/false on *shifty domestic abuse analogy*

That the outcome tilts towards "yes, our consumer relationships are just like marriage" is/ought to be a *damning* indictment of our community here, and a potent indicator that we ought to be better.

It won't be taken that way, but...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 23:56:55


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

I have now heard from different sources that GW's China/Asia project is not doing well
mainly related to the recent and regular price changes from GW as the main target groups now feels priced out of the hobby and with no solid base community already being there, the games are dropped

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:

Seriously. Do you believe for one iota of an instant that a corporation would allow for a poll to be run that has "sales etc i guess" in it?

Do you believe for one iota of an instant that this is a GW sanctioned translation?

I have seen worse translations from GW, some even made it that far to be become regular translations is those who learned englisch with GW books and stayed in the industry never bothered to check it but keep the wrong ones

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

Catulle wrote:

Is there any part of the methodology of that poll that excludes, say, people from out of country from voting?


As far as I can tell, Táobǎo will not ship outside of China, leading to things like 'buyandship' springing up, so while, not impossible, we'll call it 'unlikely'. I've read a few tutorials on how to do it, but given the tutorial was more than 17 steps, at least two of which I'll say are unlikely to be automated, and one of which costs money, I'll say that 'foreign influence' probably isn't happening in that poll in any serious capacity.

Further, hilariously considering that some people on other forums have tried to argue that Táobǎo's store is not GW, you have to be the Copyright holder or their legal representative to open a Táobǎo flagship store. And this is, apparently, actually checked.


Catulle wrote:

Since that criterion would seem kind of relevant to indicating the size of local take up vis a vis the size of the Chinese market as a proportion of the international one.

Naturally, none of that context was, nor will be, provided.


Glad I could help.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Catulle wrote:


No, Jeff.

The original question that *you* posed was true/false on *shifty domestic abuse analogy*

That the outcome tilts towards "yes, our consumer relationships are just like marriage" is/ought to be a *damning* indictment of our community here, and a potent indicator that we ought to be better.


And warhammer in general, since this puppy is god damn near universal across every single warhammer community I'm a member of. At least the ones that don't compare it to pimps and drug addiction. Gw's products have been known as 'plastic crack' for decades.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 20:10:11



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

Catulle wrote:
Spoiler:
 jeff white wrote:
Umm,… dudeface, given that the poll results are valid concerning the official gw store in China, a rising market of well over a billion people with lots of extra young men with zero hopes of marrying, and without the thirty year background and anchor base of neck bearded hobbyists, it does seem to inform this thread, at least tangentially. I mean, it is certainly interesting to see those numbers, no? Do you really honestly think that Baron just made that up? Maybe drew the characters and fabricated the results just to make a point on this thread? I don’t believe that you really think that…

But then, what would count as having bearing on any of the above? For you?


Is there any part of the methodology of that poll that excludes, say, people from out of country from voting? Since that criterion would seem kind of relevant to indicatin b the size of local take up vis a vis the size of the Chinese market as a proportion of the international one.

Naturally, none of that context was, nor will be, provided.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jeff white wrote:
Ok, fair enough. Note that the original question is not about gw failing, but rather that it succeeds in spite of itself. Can gw count on similar success in China given the validity of Baron’s poll results? I mean, let’s just assume that they are what they are supposed to be… what might be different about that market, and can this tell us something about what we might expect, there? Can GW afford to depend on succeeding in spite of itself there, if that is indeed what is happening, ‘here’?


No, Jeff.

The original question that *you* posed was true/false on *shifty domestic abuse analogy*

That the outcome tilts towards "yes, our consumer relationships are just like marriage" is/ought to be a *damning* indictment of our community here, and a potent indicator that we ought to be better.

It won't be taken that way, but...

Now, this is an abuse of double quotes. And I am at a loss as to what you really intend to communicate, with this…
For me, the poll was meant as a gauge of sentiment.
So far, the majority have voted True, that GW succeeds largely due to stuff made for them three decades ago.
And so far, people representing this POV have been civil, grounded, and patient.
Some of the minority have rejected these results, have responded in anger over the idea being broached at all, and have discounted the value of the poll and of the expressed opinions of this forum.
“Shifty”? Ok, you do you. It is clear which camp you represent.
So, poll successful. Opinions aired. True colors flown. Bravo. Thanks for sharing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kodos wrote:
I have now heard from different sources that GW's China/Asia project is not doing well
mainly related to the recent and regular price changes from GW as the main target groups now feels priced out of the hobby and with no solid base community already being there, the games are dropped
Spoiler:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:

Seriously. Do you believe for one iota of an instant that a corporation would allow for a poll to be run that has "sales etc i guess" in it?

Do you believe for one iota of an instant that this is a GW sanctioned translation?

I have seen worse translations from GW, some even made it that far to be become regular translations is those who learned englisch with GW books and stayed in the industry never bothered to check it but keep the wrong ones

Good info, this… confirms suspicions. Thanks and exalted!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:04:37


   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

China is a surprisingly hard market to get into. Different cultural values, different history, different economic situation, and a massive authoritarian government.
It isn't that surprising GW is struggling to get into the Chinese market, specially as GW plays a lot with western culture, which doesn't work well in China.

But on the other hand, that doesn't means much with how GW is doing in the western markets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:11:45


 
   
Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

It might shed light on the context of the current poll question, however, as China does not have that thirty year enculturation on which to float.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:15:51


   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

Sure that also plays a part, but do you think that thirty year enculturation is something that just happens?

Growing the IP, expanding the IP, modifing the IP, protecting the IP, sharing (or refusing to share) the IP, reinventing the IP, etc. The very concept of enculturation denotes a gradual process, and GW has taken a very active role in that process to make sure they have a thirty year enculturation on which to float.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:24:03


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Tyran wrote:
Sure that also plays a part, but do you think that thirty year enculturation is something that just happens?

Growing the IP, expanding the IP, modifing the IP, protecting the IP, sharing (or refusing to share) the IP, reinventing the IP, etc. The very concept of enculturation denotes a gradual process, and GW has taken a very active role in that process to make sure they have a thirty year enculturation on which to float.


Well, between 2019 and 2020, 40k dropped one place in the Great Wargaming Survey. (this year's isn't out yet)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:36:05



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tyran wrote:
Sure that also plays a part, but do you think that thirty year enculturation is something that just happens?

Growing the IP, expanding the IP, modifing the IP, protecting the IP, sharing (or refusing to share) the IP, reinventing the IP, etc. The very concept of enculturation denotes a gradual process, and GW has taken a very active role in that process to make sure they have a thirty year enculturation on which to float.


Umm… maybe. But, no, actually. I think that I disagree with this. Gw could have, imho, grown the community and increased its influence beyond sales and ip whoring. I mean look at Gotrek and Felix, clear rip offs from Fritz Lieber’s Fafrd and the Grey Mouser. Look at Carl Weathers from Predator, or a Lictor. How is this not riffing on common cultural heritage, ideas on which GW at best parasites? Gw could leverage these tropes, openly, confessing their inspiration, giving credit where due, and might have done similarly with Eastern tropes, catching the zeitgeist and all by tapping into the hearts and minds of the market but instead, as you say, it has fenced off its defensible area and will die on that hill, because, honestly, who really gives two feths when Fafrd and the Mouser were always better?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:37:42


   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Well, between 2019 and 2020, 40k dropped one place in the Great Wargaming Survey. (this year's isn't out yet)


And that's one year, that still leaves the other 29.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not saying GW doesn't make mistakes, they definitely do them, and some are in fact very dumb mistakes. But you do not simply fall into dominating an entire market with lore written 30 years ago, the entertainment industry is full of great IP's that were written 30 years ago and that today are a shadow of their former glory if not outright dead.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:48:05


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Tyran wrote:

And that's one year, that still leaves the other 29.


They didn't separate GW products from everything else before that point.


 Tyran wrote:

I'm not saying GW doesn't make mistakes, they definitely do them, and some are in fact very dumb mistakes. But you do not simply fall into dominating an entire market with lore written 30 years ago, the entertainment industry is full of great IP's that were written 30 years ago and that today are a shadow of their former glory if not outright dead.


Two different industries. Further, as Wargames Magazine pointed out a year or two ago, the average age of wargamers appears to be going up. This means that many brands may, in fact, be coasting on nostalgia, not just GW, and that the hobby is facing a potential 'bubble' because of this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:54:39



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Two different industries. Further, as Wargames Magazine pointed out a year or two ago, the average age of wargamers appears to be going up. This means that many brands may, in fact, be coasting on nostalgia, not just GW, and that the hobby is facing a potential 'bubble' because of this.


Historical wargaming is definitely a bubble, it would be interesting if there is data to show if the same applies to GW*. Moreover, the way to avoid the creation of a bubble is through marketing, something in which GW has heavily invested in the recent years. Time will tell of course, but even if there is trouble, GW has shown to be a surprisingly resilient company.

And nothing of that actually has to do with the management of the IP.

*I wouldn't be surprised if 40k is a bubble, but AoS is pretty much the opposite of running on nostalgia,

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 22:17:04


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




GW is primarily a miniatures company; the strength of their IP is largely in their visuals. The two main architects of that imagery - John Blanche and Jes Goodwin - still work there, and still drive the imagery that comes out. The IP GW continues to build on is IP that they themselves created.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

soviet13 wrote:
GW is primarily a miniatures company; the strength of their IP is largely in their visuals. The two main architects of that imagery - John Blanche and Jes Goodwin - still work there, and still drive the imagery that comes out. The IP GW continues to build on is IP that they themselves created.


Exactly. As long as the customers think GW miniatures are worthy of their money they'll keep buying those. GW games just need to be perceived as acceptable by the majority, as they're definitely not the primary factor of GW's success. Lore matters even less: primaris selling a lot is proof of that .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/19 07:24:46



 
   
Made in ie
Ship's Officer





 Blackie wrote:
soviet13 wrote:
GW is primarily a miniatures company; the strength of their IP is largely in their visuals. The two main architects of that imagery - John Blanche and Jes Goodwin - still work there, and still drive the imagery that comes out. The IP GW continues to build on is IP that they themselves created.


Exactly. As long as the customers think GW miniatures are worthy of their money they'll keep buying those. GW games just need to be perceived as acceptable by the majority, as they're definitely not the primary factor of GW's success. Lore matters even less: primaris selling a lot is proof of that .


If this were true why did GW struggle so badly during 7th (and don't pretend they weren't, closing stores and cutting them all to single employee operations is not a sign of a company doing well) and gain a resurgence after rebooting the game for 8th?


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Brcause it wasn't just 8th ed.

A lot of the improvements originated from Kirby being replaced by Roundtree. Kirby wasn't interested in any long term agenda in his last few years at the top.

Gw made a lot of positive moves since that time that brought people on board.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/19 08:23:15


greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 Sim-Life wrote:


If this were true why did GW struggle so badly during 7th (and don't pretend they weren't, closing stores and cutting them all to single employee operations is not a sign of a company doing well) and gain a resurgence after rebooting the game for 8th?


IMHO it's always mostly down to the miniatures. That resurgence was caused by the launch of an entire new line of models for SM, not a new edition. Truescale marines is what a huge number of players demanded since years. That hype was enough to drive huge sales, regardless of the game mechanics.

Maybe the miniatures GW released during 6th and 7th weren't appreciated that much by the fan base. I think that the problem of WHFB 8th was also the miniatures, too many super big heroes or huge stuff like the odd empire chariot or the new cauldron of blood. Awful models, combined to a bland game that forced player to spam 50 man squads of infantries and suddenly fantasy was suffering. Do you really think that WHFB 8th edition was much worse than 7th or 6th, when the game was extremely popular?

Take 40k 8th edition, do you really think indexes 8th was much better than 7th? I played a faction that was probably the worst one in 7th and yet I'd take 7th over index 8th anytime considering how badly written were those indexes.


 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






soviet13 wrote:
GW is primarily a miniatures company; the strength of their IP is largely in their visuals. The two main architects of that imagery - John Blanche and Jes Goodwin - still work there, and still drive the imagery that comes out. The IP GW continues to build on is IP that they themselves created.


Yes, but for how much longer. Blanche is already practically retired (or retired already) and Jes is 61 this year (or already is. Not sure when his birthday is, just know he was born in 1960). He won’t be around for much longer as he is fast approaching retirement age himself, then what happens?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/19 09:38:24




A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Grimtuff wrote:
soviet13 wrote:
GW is primarily a miniatures company; the strength of their IP is largely in their visuals. The two main architects of that imagery - John Blanche and Jes Goodwin - still work there, and still drive the imagery that comes out. The IP GW continues to build on is IP that they themselves created.


Yes, but for how much longer. Blanche is already practically retired (or retired already) and Jes is 61 this year (or already is. Not sure when his birthday is, just know he was born in 1960). He won’t be around for much longer as he is fast approaching retirement age himself, then what happens?


*shrug*

I don't see it as that big of a deal Grimtuff.

The torch will be passed. Someone else, or maybe a bunch of people takes over, inspired by what came before. It'll change, adapt and grow, like it always has. Art never stands still. 40ks art has a vast tapestry and incredible heritage to draw on. I've seen it so often in industry - 'when so-and-so goes, what happens?' And rather than being doomed, or everything collapsing when they do.go, other people step up, the roles and responsibilities are farmed out and things carry on.

40k, at the end of the day is more than just one or two people. No one is irreplaceable. 'You will not be missed' is just as true for them as it was for Andy Chambers or Rick Priestly or Pete Haines or hell, for us as players when we dive into the setting.

There's plenty talented artists and creative out there, many of whom have been weaned and inspired by their particular art. It won't be lost.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/19 10:26:17


greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in ie
Ship's Officer





 Blackie wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:


If this were true why did GW struggle so badly during 7th (and don't pretend they weren't, closing stores and cutting them all to single employee operations is not a sign of a company doing well) and gain a resurgence after rebooting the game for 8th?


IMHO it's always mostly down to the miniatures. That resurgence was caused by the launch of an entire new line of models for SM, not a new edition. Truescale marines is what a huge number of players demanded since years. That hype was enough to drive huge sales, regardless of the game mechanics.

Maybe the miniatures GW released during 6th and 7th weren't appreciated that much by the fan base. I think that the problem of WHFB 8th was also the miniatures, too many super big heroes or huge stuff like the odd empire chariot or the new cauldron of blood. Awful models, combined to a bland game that forced player to spam 50 man squads of infantries and suddenly fantasy was suffering. Do you really think that WHFB 8th edition was much worse than 7th or 6th, when the game was extremely popular?

Take 40k 8th edition, do you really think indexes 8th was much better than 7th? I played a faction that was probably the worst one in 7th and yet I'd take 7th over index 8th anytime considering how badly written were those indexes.


But why would people who left the game because it was bad buy an entirely new army just for the models if they weren't going to use them in game or had no intention of playing? If they were just in it for the models why would they have stopped buying models during 7th? Your line of reasoning doesn't make sense. It depends entirely on the idea that the primaris models alone is what brought so many people back.

Moreover 40k always dwarfed (harhar) WHFB in terms of sales, so we can probably discount any discussion on Fantasy and AoS took a few years to get off the ground so that's not really a reason either, neither contributed the boom that 8th Ed 40k resulted in. Besides which you contradict your own argument by saying WHFB died because the game was bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/19 12:55:27



 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







I think GW's improved in two major ways, though I also think they're slipping back into old habits now that the company's been saved:

1) Release Schedule (for FAQs, balance passes, and books themselves). Used to be a long wait between books. In 8th, this wasn't the case. In 9th? Well, it's been just about as long for some books as it had been in the past. I get that COVID screws things up, but that brings me to my second point:

2) (appearance of) Community Engagement: GW appeared to restructure how it engaged with customers, increasing the pace of articles on Warcom, actually giving previews of releases and allowing folks to review them, etc. etc. One of the other things they did was go to digital wargame books (they had them in the past, ofc, but I still have my Index: Imperium 2 ebook). They released .pdf datasheets, legendsed some stuff, etc.

Unfortunately, that seems to be slipping too. A short codex update, changing language and maybe adding obvious to-dos from 9th edition, could easily be done as a PDF. In my opinion, that's the route a company would take when it's ability to ship out a new codex is affected by COVID to the point of being YEARS off schedule.

So whilst I believe GW made some good changes, I think they're slipping back into old habits and that's spooky to me.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sim-Life wrote:


But why would people who left the game because it was bad buy an entirely new army just for the models if they weren't going to use them in game or had no intention of playing? If they were just in it for the models why would they have stopped buying models during 7th? Your line of reasoning doesn't make sense. It depends entirely on the idea that the primaris models alone is what brought so many people back.


Why? As many reasons as there are people. One answer is They'd buy them because they want to build the models.

The line of reasoning does make sense sim. You make the same mistake as kirby (remember his doozy that the hobby was 'buying gw minis'?) of assuming 'being in it for the models' means 'buying whatever gw produces regardless of aesthetics or quality' and playing/painting it unquestionably. Primaris alone bringing people back is absolutely a fair point.

You also fail to factor motivations changing. Prople generally want different things at different points in their lives. Its perfectly reasonable to expect someone to come back to gw after 5 or 10 years and want to approach it dofferently than last time.Take me.I'm mid-30s.there was a time when I loved tourneys and chased that dragon and played for 'the game'. Somewhere along the line I lost interest in 'the game' side because I got fed up with how gw ran it. When gw made primaris, they were always what I wanted marines to be. And the various other improvements- better social media presence and community engagement, more interesting 'minor' games like shadespire, warcry, necromunda etc and better 'starter' value sets was icing on the cake. I have chaos, death guard, Raptors and minotaurs now.

Another thing to consider as a tangent to this is life experience. I know a lot of people who got back into going via 8th fully aware of gw's poor balance. Most of them that I know seem to also want to approach the game in a way that would infuriate the conpetitives here and play casually and don't chase them tourneys.

 Sim-Life wrote:

Moreover 40k always dwarfed (harhar) WHFB in terms of sales, so we can probably discount any discussion on Fantasy and AoS took a few years to get off the ground so that's not really a reason either, neither contributed the boom that 8th Ed 40k resulted in. Besides which you contradict your own argument by saying WHFB died because the game was bad.


Its unfair to 'probably discount' any discussion on wfb and aos. 8th ed was 2017. Aos launched in 2015. Its first year or two were slow, then gw changed tack and it took off. So Amy success they've had in the intervening years should also consider this.

In fairness, wfb wasn't selling. It was worthless at the time. Dead weight. The fact that they've built aos into a bit of a juggernaut since launch in 2015 ties into the success gw has had these last few years. Growth from 0 is growth.

It's unfair to ignore the other games. You need to look at the whole ecosystem, not just the apex predator. Gw's run of success has been built over a couple of years. It wasn't a 'jump to mega success overnight'. It wassnt just eighth. It was an accumulation of a lot of new releases and right moves. Necromunda, warcry, adeptus titanicus, blood bowl, shadespire, aos. Licended games. Black library. The heresy. Individually might not count for huge £££ but combined, it's definitely a thing. Shadespire was our go-to game for a year. We played the hell out of necromunda. I personally love warcry. More importantly it's gw stomping back into game spaces they'd retreated from, and crucially, gave up to the competition.

Its also the community engagement. Regimental standard on its own had me howling with laughter and engaged with the hobby better than warmachine did in its last few years. To the point where I had to explain to my non-gaming wife what I found so amusing.

Also - Couple of years ago I remember chat that betrayal at calth saved gw's finances that year. Technically a boxed game and nothing do do with 40k. Don't make the mistake of simply dismissing of hand the value of a good value kit.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/10/19 14:06:56


greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Tyran wrote:
China is a surprisingly hard market to get into. Different cultural values, different history, different economic situation, and a massive authoritarian government.
It isn't that surprising GW is struggling to get into the Chinese market, specially as GW plays a lot with western culture, which doesn't work well in China.

But on the other hand, that doesn't means much with how GW is doing in the western markets.


They also have to compete with a highly competitive model market that in terms of quality, options and design far outstrips GW (though they are clearly learning fast).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deadnight wrote:
More importantly it's gw stomping back into game spaces they'd retreated from, and crucially, gave up to the competition.


This was something the new management majored on, they realised by creating those segments in the past and abandoning them they had in effect created markets for competitors to occupy and get a secure funding stream to operate from. They were small but in this market segment there is a history of game companies surging to prominence or being business that can be brought up and amalgamated into something threatening.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/19 16:15:25


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Deadnight wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
soviet13 wrote:
GW is primarily a miniatures company; the strength of their IP is largely in their visuals. The two main architects of that imagery - John Blanche and Jes Goodwin - still work there, and still drive the imagery that comes out. The IP GW continues to build on is IP that they themselves created.


Yes, but for how much longer. Blanche is already practically retired (or retired already) and Jes is 61 this year (or already is. Not sure when his birthday is, just know he was born in 1960). He won’t be around for much longer as he is fast approaching retirement age himself, then what happens?


*shrug*

I don't see it as that big of a deal Grimtuff.

The torch will be passed. Someone else, or maybe a bunch of people takes over, inspired by what came before. It'll change, adapt and grow, like it always has. Art never stands still. 40ks art has a vast tapestry and incredible heritage to draw on. I've seen it so often in industry - 'when so-and-so goes, what happens?' And rather than being doomed, or everything collapsing when they do.go, other people step up, the roles and responsibilities are farmed out and things carry on.
Yes . . . But sometimes the people "carrying on" can be gak replacements.


40k, at the end of the day is more than just one or two people. No one is irreplaceable. 'You will not be missed' is just as true for them as it was for Andy Chambers or Rick Priestly or Pete Haines or hell, for us as players when we dive into the setting.
I miss Andy Chambers. I felt that codexes/rules under his direction/authorship were hollistically solid and his sense of tone was excellent.


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 Insectum7 wrote:
I miss Andy Chambers. I felt that codexes/rules under his direction/authorship were hollistically solid and his sense of tone was excellent.


Same. I liked his generally clear vision of what, exactly, he wanted, even if sometimes there were unforseen rules interactions.


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Deadnight wrote:
No one is irreplaceable. 'You will not be missed' is just as true for them as it was for Andy Chambers or Rick Priestly or Pete Haines or hell, for us as players when we dive into the setting.


Given how badly the Chaos players are STILL whining about the loss of Codex 3.5 I'd say calling him replaceable may be borderline incorrect.

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Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
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 Just Tony wrote:
Deadnight wrote:
No one is irreplaceable. 'You will not be missed' is just as true for them as it was for Andy Chambers or Rick Priestly or Pete Haines or hell, for us as players when we dive into the setting.


Given how badly the Chaos players are STILL whining about the loss of Codex 3.5 I'd say calling him replaceable may be borderline incorrect.


To be fair I would have gotten over it if they simply scrapped the entire 3.5 codex instead of crossing the word “chaos” off and writing “loyalist” on top of it XD at this point I would be ecstatic if they gave me back bike lords and sorcerers...

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 Just Tony wrote:
Deadnight wrote:
No one is irreplaceable. 'You will not be missed' is just as true for them as it was for Andy Chambers or Rick Priestly or Pete Haines or hell, for us as players when we dive into the setting.


Given how badly the Chaos players are STILL whining about the loss of Codex 3.5 I'd say calling him replaceable may be borderline incorrect.


Given how GW is doing rules for codexes right now I'd expect the CSM codex to be really similar in setup to 3.5 and then some - minus the daemons.

   
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 Just Tony wrote:
Given how badly the Chaos players are STILL whining about the loss of Codex 3.5 I'd say calling him replaceable may be borderline incorrect.
Pete Haines was as much a part of the problem as he was the solution, given that he gave his army super rules and gave 1KSons "2 wounds" (which, contrary to what they may have said, did not have a lot going for them).

Hell we invented a special character for him - Lord Hainous - for an enemy leader.

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Deadnight wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
soviet13 wrote:
GW is primarily a miniatures company; the strength of their IP is largely in their visuals. The two main architects of that imagery - John Blanche and Jes Goodwin - still work there, and still drive the imagery that comes out. The IP GW continues to build on is IP that they themselves created.


Yes, but for how much longer. Blanche is already practically retired (or retired already) and Jes is 61 this year (or already is. Not sure when his birthday is, just know he was born in 1960). He won’t be around for much longer as he is fast approaching retirement age himself, then what happens?


*shrug*

I don't see it as that big of a deal Grimtuff.

The torch will be passed. Someone else, or maybe a bunch of people takes over, inspired by what came before. It'll change, adapt and grow, like it always has. Art never stands still. 40ks art has a vast tapestry and incredible heritage to draw on. I've seen it so often in industry - 'when so-and-so goes, what happens?' And rather than being doomed, or everything collapsing when they do.go, other people step up, the roles and responsibilities are farmed out and things carry on.

40k, at the end of the day is more than just one or two people. No one is irreplaceable. 'You will not be missed' is just as true for them as it was for Andy Chambers or Rick Priestly or Pete Haines or hell, for us as players when we dive into the setting.

There's plenty talented artists and creative out there, many of whom have been weaned and inspired by their particular art. It won't be lost.

Very much don't agree. Artists and creative types aren't easily replaceable. It isn't (always) a matter of quality, either. Most have their own visions and even if they are working from the same base materials and concepts, they'll produce different results.
Sometimes that's for the better (Wizards did an amazing job a bring D&D back from the ashes TSR left behind, then proceeded to set it on fire themselves, then recover with what's really a completely different product and audience), sometimes its utterly terrible (Catalyst has burned Shadowrun down to the ground, and offended most of the good contractors that FASA used to work with). And honestly that's with an easier industry with a significantly lower customer buy in (starting point is a couple books for a group) and a starting point of really terrible art and visuals (bad line drawings of ugly succubi and weird monsters is my memory of the earliest D&D monster manuals).

Pick any given show or movie reboot. Sometimes they recapture the magic, sometimes they create entirely new magic, sometimes they leave the property with a sucking chest wound.

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