Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

3 battlewagons all side by side with Big Mek's KFF. Each BW has a squad of 10 to 15 Lootas.

Now I try my damnest to ignore Lootas and stay out of line of sight. I need to deal with the closing horde.

My disgust comes from, if from any point on BW, my opponent can see a figure in my squad the whole unit of Lootas can shoot. He is gaining a huge advantage firing from a hull via each Loota doesn't need actual LOS.

Is this what you have encountered or is my opponent stretching things?

Long story short, yes, your opponent and you are playing it correctly. That's how it works with shooting from open-topped transports with a Big Mek KFF.

Long story shorter, Land Raiders solve your problem. Get 2-3 Redeemers/Crusaders and simply ROFLstomp your opponent's now-useless 600 point firebase.

Oh I know. I was just saying.

I had a Redeemer with 5 TH/SS termies and Pedro. That combined with alittle shooting crushed 90+ slugga boyz over course of game. (I was proving that my buddies army was viable, if properly played.)

The Lootas never were touched.

Well, if anything I think that shows his army isn't viable... it can deal with anything predominantly AV12 but has a huge glaring weakness in the LR-killing department.

sourclams wrote:Well, if anything I think that shows his army isn't viable... it can deal with anything predominantly AV12 but has a huge glaring weakness in the LR-killing department.

The entire Ork Codex has a huge glaring weaknes in LR-Killing department... that's just a silly statement

However, depending on how you interpret the rules, Deff rollas could grind LRs to dust... Then you're screwed once again. Besides I don't think that this 600 point firebase wouldn't be supported by a powerfull anti-tank force.

There are thing lootas cannot destroy... Everything else you will kill with the rest of force

Land Raiders can't do a whole lot to AV14 either. =p Tack a 4+ cover save onto those battlewagons makes it even worse. Simple answer here is to stick a warboss as the other HQ into one of those battlewagons - or for your opponent to revise how he's using his boys that you say you crushed.

But yes - a mechanized Loota firebase is an extremely viable build, especially if the player has the tactical ability to recognize threats on the board and what needs to be dealt with in what order, and with what weapons. Those squads of boys should have had nobs with powerklaws moving cover to cover to get to your land raiders, or simply hung back absorbing a few sniping attacks until you decided to close range. A lot of variables here that are unknown.

His HQ's were Old Zogwart and Big Mek

I charged Orks x3 times, twice from my LRR. Fighting Orks when they have str 3 is alot different than fighting Orks when Orks charge. Pedro supported termies is pure punishment. I made alot of saves to keep squad intact. Lost Pedro and 2 termies to Kill Cannon shot late.

Ork player killed most of my force with those Lootas. Game ended in turn 6 draw, capture and control/Dawn of War. Of the 167 Orks that came to dance, 55 went home intact.

Deathstrike missile would be funny.

It has me sickened too, mostly because someone just asked me to try and build that list, because he wants to try and beat it.

As an ork player I'm more sickened by the overall lack of 'slots' left to build a functioning ork army. Your using all your heavy support and elites. While killy, lootas have glaring week-spots, and using up all your slots leaves little room for error should your opponent have 4 land raiders to hide behind. Also, I shot 12-13 lootas at a falcon once, rear armour, I believe I got 2 shots a piece, after all was said and done, I blew a gun off, and it was shaken :(

Loota wagons want to stand still and shoot, the other orks want to go foreward and get into close combat.....and your big mek's KFF only has a 6" range, so this leaves you with a choice, do you leave your battlewagons behind and let the obliterators destroy them, or do you "circle the wagons" and let the boyz get shot to zog? (the answer probably depends on the mission ;P )

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:His HQ's were Old Zogwart and Big Mek

I charged Orks x3 times, twice from my LRR. Fighting Orks when they have str 3 is alot different than fighting Orks when Orks charge. Pedro supported termies is pure punishment. I made alot of saves to keep squad intact. Lost Pedro and 2 termies to Kill Cannon shot late.

Ork player killed most of my force with those Lootas. Game ended in turn 6 draw, capture and control/Dawn of War. Of the 167 Orks that came to dance, 55 went home intact.

Thats what Orks do. They die in order pull the win. Be glad he didnt have 15 Burnas in that wagon dropping mobile flame templets on any troops dumb enough to disembark. They also get power weapons on the charge if they do not fire the flamer. If you play orks correctly they can be pretty broken. Search for Dashopeppers post to find out how and why. I plan to use his tourney build to the letter once my Kann Wall is finished.

Dashofpepper wrote:Land Raiders can't do a whole lot to AV14 either. =p .

Incorrect. all variants may choose MM for 10 points, which you see taken very often on Crusaders/Redeemers.

ounumen wrote:. Search for Dashopeppers post to find out how and why. I plan to use his tourney build to the letter once my Kann Wall is finished.

Arg...I just need to write a tactica already!

That would be really nice... I'm looking for more ways to deal with the KFF and vehicle spam also.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Search for Dashopeppers post to find out how and why. I plan to use his tourney build to the letter once my Kann Wall is finished.

DoP did a Kan Wall build? Linkies please.

Like others have said, it is perfectly legal.

Fight fire with fire. Play your dual Jetseer army and turn 2 destroy every battlewagon. If he blocks access to them, you still have mutliple Destructor templates and Lootas firing at fortuned Jetseers is not overly effective. Most likely, your opponent will have serious issues losing Lootas in the following explosions and/or model placement with all 3 Battlewagons close together.

Basically, play rock/paper/scissors with two extreme build armies.

I played versus a 4 BW list (at 1850), and 2 had lootas.....I popped them all (2 in the first turn, 1 at turn 2, the last at turn 4), using indirect fire from a basilisk and a manticore.....armor 12 has a difficult time with s9 and 10 ordnance shots....

How is multiple BWs bad? Its not like the 14 armour goes right around...

I'm not saying I can't beat the Loota mess. I personally feel Eldar autobeat Orks.

I'm more disgusted by the one see all shoot rule of being in a hull.

Depending on how you rule Deffrollaz vs Vehicles, an ork army meched up in Battlewagons becomes practically unstoppable. Key ingredients are:

Warboss
Big Mek with KFF

Nobs as elites in Battlewagon
Burnaboys in Heavy Support Battlewagon
Lootaz as elites in Heavy Support Battlewagon

Nobs as troops in Battlewagon
Boyz in Heavy Support Battlewagon
Boyz in Heavy Support Battlewagon

Then add in whatever you want, stay near the KFF, and deffroll your way over just about anything. Whatever's left, pimpslap with your boyz. For extra Battlewagons, drop the Big Mek for a warboss and more nobs.

Obviously, this is still deadly without deffrollaz, but more manageable.

I would wager that most places DO NOT let you deffrolla vehicles. No place that I play, sadly, allows me to DR anything but troops. I wish it would be clarified one way or the other, but I still take them because it's orky and fun.

Pika_power wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Search for Dashopeppers post to find out how and why. I plan to use his tourney build to the letter once my Kann Wall is finished.

DoP did a Kan Wall build? Linkies please.

No, I am doing the Kann Wall. Dash did the Truck/BW spam. I went with the Kanns as this is my first army and wanted to learn the Str/Weaknesses without have the picture perfect list. After playing a tourney I have a pretty good idea what I lack for the Kann Wall and will fix it. Next is to buy the trukks and BW for the second build. Maybe some bikes, kind of pricey for what they do though we shall see.

leper,

Why can't you tank shock a vehicle? Let me explain it to ya,

Battlewagon (No re-enforced ram) - cant perform a tank shock or ram vehicles.

Battlewagon (with Re-enforced ram) - Can tank shock units and Ram vehicles.

Battlewagon (with Deff Rolla) - Can tank shock units and auto hit 1D6 S10 hits or 2D6 S10 hits with death or glory. It can ram vehicles but must follow the rules set forth under the tank shock - ramming special rules. (It does not get 1D or 2D S10 hits on the vehicle because ramming vehilces has its own special rule.) The deff rolla can just be used for both types of Tank Shocks, thats why it says ALL tank shocks in the codex.

NO DEFF ROLLA ARGUMENTS! DAKKA CAN'T TAKE IT!

net_junky wrote:leper,

Why can't you tank shock a vehicle? Let me explain it to ya,

Battlewagon (No re-enforced ram) - cant perform a tank shock or ram vehicles.

Battlewagon (with Re-enforced ram) - Can tank shock units and Ram vehicles.

Battlewagon (with Deff Rolla) - Can tank shock units and auto hit 1D6 S10 hits or 2D6 S10 hits with death or glory. It can ram vehicles but must follow the rules set forth under the tank shock - ramming special rules. (It does not get 1D or 2D S10 hits on the vehicle because ramming vehilces has its own special rule.) The deff rolla can just be used for both types of Tank Shocks, thats why it says ALL tank shocks in the codex.

OH SO you can hit vehicles with a Deff Rolla? never had it explained to me like that...

net_junky wrote:DEFFROLLAZ HURR!

net_junky, you're new here so maybe you didn't know, but everyone here is intimately familiar with the debate surrounding Deffrollas and Ram/Tankshock, etc. There are numerous threads about it in YMDC if you do a quick search. As such, we'd appreciate the Deffrolla for/against arguments out of the Tactics section.

Thanks.

net_junky wrote:
Battlewagon (No re-enforced ram) - cant perform a tank shock or ram vehicles.

Wait... what?

Battlewagon
Type: Vehicle (Tank, Open-topped)

whitedragon wrote:
Key ingredients are:

Warboss
Big Mek with KFF

Nobs as elites in Battlewagon
Burnaboys in Heavy Support Battlewagon
Lootaz as elites in Heavy Support Battlewagon

Nobs as troops in Battlewagon
Boyz in Heavy Support Battlewagon
Boyz in Heavy Support Battlewagon

I'll get right on that as soon as I have 4 heavy support slots in my standard FOC.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:I'm not saying I can't beat the Loota mess. I personally feel Eldar autobeat Orks.

I'm more disgusted by the one see all shoot rule of being in a hull.

Ah well...that is the positive side of having a large tank as a transport....it is a good tradeoff for the open topped vulnerability, and the advantage of armies like the orks and dark eldar....that's the way it is, nothing wrong with it, since they still have to only move at combat speed to have the passengers shoot out (if not using heavy weapons), any faster and the passenger's can't shoot anything at all....