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GW Support was closed when this situation arose.. will be contacting them as soon as they are open for an official answer (which i'll obviously post here for people to see) In the mean time! Lets see what everyone else thinks!

as far as i know applicable references...

Pg: 68 (tank shock)
Pg: 94 (reserves)

take careful note of wordings..

and please...please... read the references before voting

Entirely legal - you move on "as if you were placed at the edge" and can therefore declare a tankshock.

Great way to mess up people who think that blocking the baord edge is a great "tactic"

Why not?

Tankshock can be performed when moving instead of moving normally. You move onto the board from reserve. You can thus tankshock onto the board.

I agree, it doesnt say in tank shock rules, that you cannot come onto the board while performing a tank shock. It is essentially a move, but a move that is used to run motha suckas down.


And to be fair, the people using the table edge block, became famous from stopping all bike armies. There really isnt many lists that this tactic works on, other then stopping bikers in reserve.

The problem arises that this is not a normal move, it is a move/attack and your starting the attack from off table.
Also under tank shock it says that instead of making a normal move this can be done.

Therefore it is still fine - moving on from reserve is a normal move, and instead of performing a normal move you tankshock instead.

Perfectly fine.

Then if you can declare an "attack" from off table how is this allowed and yet...

People argue that you can't make a scout move onto the board (from table edge) in DoW deployment?

You cant have 1 and not the other in my opinion. 1 is a normal move states it a normal move, and is a special rule. The other is a movement in the form of an attack thats being declared off board... I dont see the logic in allowing tank shock and disallowing scout movement onto the board (Dow)

RAW it is illegal.

Because:

BGB p.68
"To make this kind of attack you must first turn the vehicle on the spot in the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move."

Since at the beginning of the movement the tank is not in play you can not meet these requirements, therefor it's illegal.


Also if you could do such sillyness what would happen if your model was on the table edge and someone tried to TS you and you stunned the tank in a death or glory attack?

Clthomps wrote:RAW it is illegal.

Because:

BGB p.68
"To make this kind of attack you must first turn the vehicle on the spot in the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move."

Since at the beginning of the movement the tank is not in play you can not meet these requirements, therefor it's illegal.


Also if you could do such sillyness what would happen if your model was on the table edge and someone tried to TS you and you stunned the tank in a death or glory attack?

my sentiments exactly...

Clthomps wrote:
Because:

BGB p.68
"To make this kind of attack you must first turn the vehicle on the spot in the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move."

Since at the beginning of the movement the tank is not in play you can not meet these requirements, therefor it's illegal.


Also if you could do such sillyness what would happen if your model was on the table edge and someone tried to TS you and you stunned the tank in a death or glory attack?

It is in no way illegal, you can meet all of those requirements perfectly legally.
Sillyness or gamebreaking states are not an argument, the rules let you get into the situation.

Clthomps wrote:RAW it is illegal.

Because:

BGB p.68
"To make this kind of attack you must first turn the vehicle on the spot in the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move."

Since at the beginning of the movement the tank is not in play you can not meet these requirements, therefor it's illegal.


Also if you could do such sillyness what would happen if your model was on the table edge and someone tried to TS you and you stunned the tank in a death or glory attack?

I would say that the tank counts as destroyed. You cant place it on the table cause its stunned. You cant keep it in reserve cause you've already declared its coming on.

belial wrote:

Clthomps wrote:RAW it is illegal.

Because:

BGB p.68
"To make this kind of attack you must first turn the vehicle on the spot in the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move."

Since at the beginning of the movement the tank is not in play you can not meet these requirements, therefor it's illegal.


Also if you could do such sillyness what would happen if your model was on the table edge and someone tried to TS you and you stunned the tank in a death or glory attack?

I would say that the tank counts as destroyed. You cant place it on the table cause its stunned. You cant keep it in reserve cause you've already declared its coming on.

You would say that but you would be just making it up since there are no rules to govern that situation. Best to avoid the whole mess and play it like it's written. (fun fact if you do happen to play it contrary to the written rules as a house rule then an immobilized shot will destroy it. p.94)

belial wrote:

Clthomps wrote:RAW it is illegal.

Because:

BGB p.68
"To make this kind of attack you must first turn the vehicle on the spot in the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move."

Since at the beginning of the movement the tank is not in play you can not meet these requirements, therefor it's illegal.


Also if you could do such sillyness what would happen if your model was on the table edge and someone tried to TS you and you stunned the tank in a death or glory attack?

I would say that the tank counts as destroyed. You cant place it on the table cause its stunned. You cant keep it in reserve cause you've already declared its coming on.

Wrong.
Where does it say that models that are not wholly on the board are destroyed? In fact, where does it address models off the board in general?

It's Legal.

The rule is right next to the one stating you can tank shock from off the table. If you want to defend imo a stupid situation then after the day I've had you'll get a stupid answer.

Wrong.
Where does it say that models that are not wholly on the board are destroyed? In fact, where does it address models off the board in general?

Partially WRONG!

Read my post right before yours, there are very clear rules on P.94 regarding models off the board.

It's Legal.

So how about a rules quote to back it up?

Clthomps wrote:

It's Legal.

So how about a rules quote to back it up?

It's already been explained in this thread. No need to rehash it.

It would make sense to tank shock from reserves because the world doesn't stop at the edge of the board. The tank drives into battle so can therefore crush into battle. Common Sense!

Making sense is the last thing GW Rules do...


Common sense would be units on the board edge shooting the tank before it could make it into tank shock range. Therefore they have to make some arbitrary rules to govern things out of play.

I don't know where you get the idea that vehicles cannot pivot when off board.

"Vehicles can turn any number of times when they move" (P. 57)

So clearly there is no taboo on pivoting off board, because they can move when off board too. So they can pivot during a tankshock, because a tankshock is performed when moving and you pivot towards the target when doing so. In short, nothing forbids you from pivoting, and you're allowed to, because you move on from the board edge.

TopC wrote:Then if you can declare an "attack" from off table how is this allowed and yet...

People argue that you can't make a scout move onto the board (from table edge) in DoW deployment?

You cant have 1 and not the other in my opinion. 1 is a normal move states it a normal move, and is a special rule. The other is a movement in the form of an attack thats being declared off board... I dont see the logic in allowing tank shock and disallowing scout movement onto the board (Dow)

Because Scout moves are the final step in deployment? Turn 1 is *not* deployment.

Would someone like to give RAW backup as to how you can attack from off table? This is exactly what tank shock is. An Attack


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

TopC wrote:Then if you can declare an "attack" from off table how is this allowed and yet...

People argue that you can't make a scout move onto the board (from table edge) in DoW deployment?

You cant have 1 and not the other in my opinion. 1 is a normal move states it a normal move, and is a special rule. The other is a movement in the form of an attack thats being declared off board... I dont see the logic in allowing tank shock and disallowing scout movement onto the board (Dow)

Because Scout moves are the final step in deployment? Turn 1 is *not* deployment.

Scout move is not a deployment. Its a turn0 movement by both sides before turn 1 movement begins.

1. You deploy
2. You infiltrate
3. you scout move
4. your entire army takes turn 1 movement.

its not a deployment.

TopC wrote:Would someone like to give RAW backup as to how you can attack from off table? This is exactly what tank shock is. An Attack

If you'd read the thread, or the rules regarding tank shocks and arriving from reserves, then it would be clear pretty quickly. You haven't provided anything that would prevent it, by RAW.

belial wrote:The rule is right next to the one stating you can tank shock from off the table. If you want to defend imo a stupid situation then after the day I've had you'll get a stupid answer.

You sir, are wrong. Read the responses to your inaccurate posting.

Clthomps wrote:

Wrong.
Where does it say that models that are not wholly on the board are destroyed? In fact, where does it address models off the board in general?

Partially WRONG!

Read my post right before yours, there are very clear rules on P.94 regarding models off the board.

RAW fails in this aspect, as there are vehicles that are longer than 6". What happens to said vehicles that cannot fully move onto the board?

Gorkamorka wrote:

TopC wrote:Would someone like to give RAW backup as to how you can attack from off table? This is exactly what tank shock is. An Attack

If you'd read the thread, or the rules regarding tank shocks and arriving from reserves, then it would be clear pretty quickly. You haven't provided anything that would prevent it, by RAW.

Gorkamorka has it correct.

Gorkamorka wrote:

TopC wrote:Would someone like to give RAW backup as to how you can attack from off table? This is exactly what tank shock is. An Attack

If you'd read the thread, or the rules reguarding tank shocks and arriving from reserves, then it would be clear pretty quickly. You haven't provided anything that would prevent it, by RAW.

Page 68 Tank shock.

paragraph 1: Tanks may decide to use their mass as a WEAPON.
paragraph 2: When moving a tank, the player can declare that the vehicle is going to attempt to make a tank shock ATTACK INSTEAD OF MOVING NORMALLY.
paragraph 4: To make this kind of ATTACK.....

Page 76 Special rules "scout":

paragraph 1: "to represent this, after both sides have deployed (including infiltrators), but BEFORE the first player begins his turn, any scout may make a NORMAL MOVE. This is done EXACTLY AS IN THE MOVEMENT PHASE, except that during this move scouts must remain more than 12'' away from an enemy"

Page 93 Dawn of War

paragraph 3: Lastly players make any scout moves

Page 94 Arriving from reserves.

paragraph 1: "...as if they had been positioned just OFF the board.."


If your going to respond to this, please give references as i was kind enough to do when asked. (Im asking for your references to say you can't)


Scout move = a normal move

Tank shock = a special move that is in the form of an attack (your off table, the world ends at the table edge, you can't attack)

TopC wrote:
Page 76 Special rules "scout":

paragraph 1: "to represent this, after both sides have deployed (including infiltrators), but BEFORE the first player begins his turn, any scout may make a NORMAL MOVE. This is done EXACTLY AS IN THE MOVEMENT PHASE, except that during this move scouts must remain more than 12'' away from an enemy"

Page 93 Dawn of War

paragraph 3: Lastly players make any scout moves

Page 94 Arriving from reserves.

paragraph 1: "...as if they had been positioned just OFF the board.."


If your going to respond to this, please give references as i was kind enough to do when asked. (Im asking for your references to say you can't)


Scout move = a normal move

Tank shock = a special move that is in the form of an attack (your off table, the world ends at the table edge, you can't attack)

Dawn of war:
"All units that were not deployed, and were not
declared to be in reserve during deployment, must
enter the game in the Movement phase of their first
player turn by moving in from their own table edge,
just like units moving in from reserve."

Oh, whats that, I blew your whole unrelated scouts analogy out of the water?

TopC wrote:
Page 68 Tank shock.

paragraph 1: Tanks may decide to use their mass as a WEAPON.
paragraph 2: When moving a tank, the player can declare that the vehicle is going to attempt to make a tank shock ATTACK INSTEAD OF MOVING NORMALLY.
paragraph 4: To make this kind of ATTACK.....

Annnnd this has nothing to do with anything? I'm not sure why you keep claiming this breaks the rules without showing that it breaks any rules.

Dawn of war is a standard deployment

Scout = special rule


What over rules what? the special rule, or the standard deployment? Special rule IMO otherwise whats the point of the word special?


Because an attack is an attack, you cant declare an attack from off table.

If your going to declare an attack legally from off table (which your not supposed to Via RAW) then you should by your same ruleset be allowed to make a scout move coming on from reserve turn 1.

TopC wrote:Would someone like to give RAW backup as to how you can attack from off table? This is exactly what tank shock is. An Attack

We've been over why a tankshock may be performed. Now can you please say why a model cannot 'attack' from off the table in this fashion?

TopC wrote:Dawn of war is a standard deployment

Scout = special rule


What over rules what? the special rule, or the standard deployment? Special rule IMO otherwise whats the point of the word special?


Because an attack is an attack, you cant declare an attack from off table.

If your going to declare an attack legally from off table (which your not supposed to Via RAW) then you should by your same ruleset be allowed to make a scout move coming on from reserve turn 1.

So, even when the quote is right in front of you, you insist that units that have not entered the game, are not yet positioned just off the board, and 'must' enter on turn one can make scout moves from an undefined location before turn one?

And then you still refuse to provide any RAW backing for your repeated claim that you are prevented from declaring a tank shock because it is an attack.

You're wrong, I'll let other people repeat it until you get it.