Are Chavs basically Grots? (UK Question)

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**Malo**

Hi fellow Brits, most of us know what Chavs are, and it now occurs to me how similar they are to Grots!
Similarities:

Agressive and addicted to violence.
Hand-made (kustom) weapons e.g BB guns, cricket bats etc and stupid bangers (trukks), which they attempt to make better but fail miserably!
I don't speak chavish but i believe these are called "scooby doo's"?
(Hordes) Chavs like to gather in mobs, usually to raid a town center on a Saturday morning, when one chav is alone (it) doesn't stand a chance but when there's 50 of them, its hard to concentrate as they throw objects at the GW shop window!

What do you guys think they are, Human subspecies or xenos on Terra already?

Here is an example of a chav for all you non- Brits!
[img]http://www.that-dj.com/wp-content/uploads/image/chav.JPG[img]

**Corpsesarefun**

The language is chavic not chavish

And orks are smarter

but otherwise yeah they basicly are...

**Eldar Own**

Malo wrote:Hi fellow Brits, most of us know what Chavs are, and it now occurs to me how similar they are to orks!

Now you mention it....

**Just Dave**

I agree! I cant believe I hadnt realised before! but yeah I think Orks are smarter, and probably cleaner. Actually I imagine Orks are better in most respects...

**Malo**

Fear not, as I plan to purge the chavish scum!
My high school is infested with them...

**Da Boss**

Orks were based on the urban poor in Tolkiens original work, in my opinion anyway. GW riffed off that and upped the comedy element. But I think chavs (or skangers as we call 'em over here) are more like Diggas than orks

.

**Leigen_Zero**

*flame on*
NO NO NO NO NO! HOW DARE YOU REFER TO ORKS AS SOMETHING AS LOW AS THESE DREGS OF SOCIETY!
*flame off*

The way I see orks is that they are what would happen if you cross bred the spartan's in 300 with dick van dyke in Mary Poppins, loveable, abeit incredibly violent, cockneys.

edit: plus, orks have better taste in music! (they are goff rockers, not goff rappers/ravers)

**Captain Roderick**

There's some slight flaws in your comparison unfortunately; chavs reproduce sexually, Orks grow from spores.
Also, your average ork is bigger than your average human - due to a diet of chips and chips, your average chav is unfortunately not.

@ malo: No going postal now, that'd be terribly un-British of you. Just do well at school, go to uni, get a job, then visit a supermarket near your old school in ten years and laugh to yourself at the state of the girls you used to fancy.

**Grimgob**

Pardon my American Ignorance but is Chavs short for something because they seam like non racist skins (havent you guys always had a problem with theses guys?).

**CruelCoin**

Malo wrote:
I don't speak chavish but i believe these are called "scooby doo's"?

Close! They call them Scoobies. Subaru impreza's with stupid bucket exhausts. all blow and no go.

**Manchu**

Grimgob: Chavs are basically the younger generation of the group we Americans call whitetrash, an admittedly extensive category itself. We have them, too, but have not gotten around to calling them anything in particular.

As for the Orc comparison . . . maybe it was just me, or did any one else think LotR's visual rendering was painfully if unintentionally racist? Well, could be that the racism is all mine.

**Da Boss**

Nah I reckon LOTR was pretty racist, to be honest. I reckon Tolkien also thought that the aristocracy was pretty decent, and the rural poor were all good chaps really, not like those disgusting urban poor.

Reading the books the racism shines through even moreso, and in the film it's hard to hide it. I'm on the orcs side most of the time- poor sods never had a chance.

**SwanCo**

Manchu wrote:Grimgob:
As for the Orc comparison . . . maybe it was just me, or did any one else think LotR's visual rendering was painfully if unintentionally racist? Well, could be that the racism is all mine.

i may be somewhat ignorant or maybe just dont see what you mean when you say it, but how would the orks be racist in LotR? i thought they were done quite nicely

as far as the chavs go, not sure what they are, but if they are as they were described above i must agree with the general consensus and say that orks have better manners

**Manchu**

@SwanCo: No, I don't think it's your ignorance just my latent racism. To me, the movie Orcs seemed a crude, weird Cockney/blackface mix-up minstrelsy. And then of course there's the fact that everyone else who is bad, other than the white traitors, are either Africans (from Khand) or Arabs (from Harad).

**SwanCo**

ah gotcha, well i see where your coming from...i just never thought to look of it that way. while i can see how it could be taken racistly i dont think it was intended to be so...i remember the people from harad...but not those of khan...and werent the traitorous people (the ones who ditched and were damned to live as undead until they made up their debt) from the battle at the beginning of the frist movie (the one vs sauron directly) of white, and didnt they only make it up so that they could end their torment? they seemed as bad guys to me, and the only reason they helped was for selfish gain so that they would no longer be forced to live as the undead ... sounds like bad guys to me personally

**Manchu**

True. And yet they still ended up fighting for good in the end. As for Khand,I had Khand and Harad mixed up--it's all generall the Levant and Northern Africa, I think, when you look at Eastern Beleriand as Europe. Also, I think this guy is the only black/black-looking person in the movies:

Anyway, this isn't an indictment of Tolkien. But Da Boss has a good point about the Orc/Chavs deal. Tolkien didn't care for urban populations, whether the poor or the rich industrialists (Saruman). But in the US, urban poor often translates into black, which makes the Uruk-hai unfortunately designed--again, to my admittedly racist eyes (admittedly as in I'm not dumb enough to think where I'm from doesn't affect my perception).

**SwanCo**

i can see what you mean...hmmm...this is making me want to watch these films again...i'll watch them again and then get back to this little conundrum and see if after closer observation it still holds

**FreekyE**

Over here we call 'em 'Douchebags'.

**wardancer**

chavs are very cowardly from my own experience ( being bit of a hooligan myself) - no notion of any rules of honour that we troublemakers of the past used to have. Orks are my favourite army and yo ucan call them anything but cowardly

**Manchu**

Grots then.

**wardancer**

you know? its quite funny but yes, I believe grots would be right

**Brother SRM**

I'm pretty sure it was always the intent.

**Clthomps**

So are Chavs like this:

Or like this:

**augustus5**

I think you are insulting orks by comparing them with chavs.

Orks do what comes naturally to them. They were put in the galaxy to waaaaaaaaaaagh!!!

Chavs choose to be the way they are because they have bad self esteem issues and need to dress up in costume and put on a front to compensate for it.

**Captain Roderick**

Grots is totally spot on as it solves the stature issue - although we may have to go back in time and call them 'gretchin', as they're bigger than snotlings.
Also the cowardly pack nature.

now that's some chavs.

manchu, I like your self-aware analysis of the racist factors in LotR - Tolkien was certainly a rampant anti-industrialist, thus if you place a map of the region the fellowship traversed across southern england, London is Mordor. But I don't think he saw the Orcs as any particular race - although the people of Harad etc drawn to Mordor could certainly be seen as a parallel to the massive post-war government sponsored immigration to the UK from all over the disintegrating empire. It's good that he made a point of saying 'it's not their fault! evil industrial powers drew them in!'
Tolkien wasn't really a racist, but he was a dreadful snob, and being a rural gentleman obsessed with the West Country he probably had the same discomfort problems with 'folks not from round here' as small town people still do today.

Now, Neds & Minks. Goblin Fanatics?

**Malo**

Ok, I apologise to the orks for comparing them to the cowarldy, unhygienic, violent disgrace that are the chavs...

I shall now compare them to grots...
I hope no one believes this is an insult to the grots/ snotlings/gretchins etc

(changing thread title)

**vodo40k**

Orks and Grots have faaaaaaaaar more style and brainpower than any chav.

**Orkeosaurus**

Comparing the courageous, industrious proletariat of the orkish hegemony to those stupid oafs? Have "chavs" ever constructed and maintained fleets of extra fast buggies, and extra smashy battlewagons while the lazy meks mess around with the kustom doo-wollopers and order his oilers around? Have "chavs" ever bravely sacrificed themselves for the sake of the Waaagh? Have "chavs" ever been mercilessly thrown into squig pits for their masters' sadistic pleasure?

The Kommittee will be making a list of the perpetrators of this defamation.

**Captain Roderick**

There's a Kommittee?

Actually, Chavs do have a similar way with technology - it can only be a low-level psychic field that keeps those white vauxhall novas driving in fast laps round town centres, night after night, given all the horrendous modding they tend to inflict on the poor machines.

**Little lord Fauntleroy**

Hmm...good fpoint. Orks are fairly dum, unclean, and single minded-just like stupid as gak UK chavs.

God I hate them. Hand me a pistol and line chavs up in a row, it'll be short and quick, I promise

.