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http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=6201

...I have not personally read any of the forum threads on this, so I'm still kind of getting up to speed. It's come to my attention that some of our customers felt mislead by some specific ability and stat changes that occurred on a few models between the 'locked' PDF and the actual release of MkII. The most honest and forthright response I can offer you is that I am sorry that we mislead you. There was no intention to deceive and those changes that were made after the fact were not motivated by anything other than our continued fervor to perfect the game. How you view those changes may bias you towards agreeing with this statement, but I assure you that there was no duplicity in play here....

It's an interesting post if you're into how companies develop their games, and how those
same companies try to interact with their playerbase. I posted a rundown on the situation
that lead to this post by Matt Wilson on my blog, but it's basically that people were
angry that rules got changed after the "final" pdf and the printing of the game. Mr. Wilson's
answer is a long winded way to say that the changes were better for the game in the long
run.

Anyway, aren't forums fun?

That is good of him to address the player base, and to apologize for it.

Any changes that were made last minute were for the best (I was affected by the Rebuke change, but it does make for better gameplay, so I am a fan).

Well done, PP.

-Eric

Is the frustration coming from the fact that people are mad they have to actually buy new cards? Is PP planning on releasing another .pdf with the updated changes? If so, it's really not an issue.

whitedragon wrote:Is the frustration coming from the fact that people are mad they have to actually buy new cards? Is PP planning on releasing another .pdf with the updated changes? If so, it's really not an issue.

The pdfs were a hold over until they released their product.

Is there a list of these post "final PDF" changes. Good to see the back of Rebuke, still waiting on the final take for the Covenant of Menoth and Cephalyx Drudges.

You pretty much have to dig them up in the various faction forums.

I believe one such change is that drudges are 4/6.

Bit OffT, Mal, but your blog is the only thing that's ever gotten me excited about Warmachines. Bookmarked.

Back OnT, I can't imagine GW allowing their people to talk to the fans directly outside of Jervis in WD. Must be weird.

Gav posts on the warhammer forum.


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Manchu wrote:Bit OffT, Mal, but your blog is the only thing that's ever gotten me excited about Warmachines. Bookmarked.

Back OnT, I can't imagine GW allowing their people to talk to the fans directly outside of Jervis in WD. Must be weird.

You're one of my readers? I am so sorry.

So who complained about the fixes? People who intended to play for free with the fugly printed pdfs?

PP fixes rules! Nerds complain.
GW doesn't fix rules! Nerds complain.

*facepalm*

HEhe, to be fair, most of the responses to his post has been support.

GW is trying. They had the SW's FAQ.

Don't talk about that too loudly.

The trolls have keen hearing?

Exactamundo.

Meanwhile, as a PP outsider, can someone explain these stat card pack to me?

Each unit in Warmachine has it's stats on both a card that comes with the model and in the rulebook it's from. There are multiple rulebooks (Due to the way things are released) so the cards are a way for people to have their rules without buying into the rules beyond the core book that details the game mechanics.
You can also buy the cards in the form of a faction deck that includes all the units currently available for the faction, which is handy for spares, and to get all the rules in one place.
It's a pretty good system, to my mind, though people often don't like the cards, for some reason. Seems to make them think the game works like a CCG?

Manchu wrote:Exactamundo.

Meanwhile, as a PP outsider, can someone explain these stat card pack to me?

When you buy models, the rules for that model come in a card.

This is the first time they've changed the rules army wide, game wide so people have old cards.

So before they release rule books, people can pay 19 bucks to update their old cards with
decks. Any new models you buy should have new cards in them (assuming your retailer
upgraded their product).

The trouble will come from people like me with multiple factions, or people who only
have a few mercenaries. I'll probably buy multiple mercenary decks and sell off the pieces
to people who want them.

So the rules are in a book (presumably the main book unless your are Mercs or Elves) and on cards? Or do the cards have some independent purpose?

Manchu wrote:So the rules are in a book (presumably the main book unless your are Mercs or Elves) and on cards? Or do the cards have some independent purpose?

The rules for models/units will be in the army books same as for 40k. However Warmachine also has cards for each model/unit as well for use as reference during play which is easier then flipping through books for unit info. Also many units have multiple wounds which are tracked on the cards, and warjacks (giant fighting robots) take damage to various systems/weapons that are also tracked on the cards, etc.

In mark 1, rules were in various books, because of the way new units were added.
In mark 2, I think the main rulebook doesn't have every unit in it, but there should be faction books that collect them all in one place.
Then, going forward with expansions I expect we'll be back to the old Mk 1 system of having the rules in multiple places.
The cards really serve as a quick reference tool during the games which take way the need to flip through multiple books for rules, and also make it much easier to transport your stuff- that way you don't have to carry 3-4 books around with you if your army uses a lot of diverse units.
Edit: And as CT Gamer points out, damage is tracked on cards too. (usually people use card protectors with tranperant covers, and write on them with dry erase markers).

Thanks very much, guys. It is hard to follow PP's publications for the uninitiated considering how almost everything seemed to be out of print by the time MkII was announced (maybe earlier?) and since I could only see "army books" for mercs and elves.

PP has impressed me with their incorporating of the consumers and well thought out rules i just wish more people around me were interested in PP.

I'd join in right away if not for the confusingly available/not available, hard to find publications (esp. Iron Kingdoms) on top of the fluff, which seems a mite shallow next to 40k. Fluff is make or break for me. The silly hats those Khador guys wear is another problem area. Well, I could go on (Scyrah codpieces, etc) but you see what I mean, I'm sure.

These are military games. Everyone has silly hats.

Cadian football team
Eldar coneheads (the better to hide their top knots I supposed)
Orky mongolian spikeheads

Most of the fluff is in the rulebooks, so that's certainly an issue.

The IKRPG books are available to buy as pdfs somewhere, but you're paying full price for
an electronic document.

What's the variety of paint scheme?

Not sure what you mean. If you're asking about fluff based forces, those tend to appear in
No Quarters and in the Warmachine rulebooks. There aren't any in the Retribution book as far
as I can tell. At some point I wanted to catalog the armies that were displayed, but that would take
time away from the model summaries, which are slow slow slow.

I mean is every Protectorate Warjack Pink and White? And, if so, are there any significant variations from the officially published pics?

Manchu wrote:I mean is every Protectorate Warjack Pink and White? And, if so, are there any significant variations from the officially published pics?

I believe that there is only 1 "Official" color scheme for each faction. And the sad truth is most people that paint their WM stuff use there official color schemes. (Not all most)

Manchu wrote:I mean is every Protectorate Warjack Pink and White? And, if so, are there any significant variations from the officially published pics?

Ah!

(I'll probably get this thread moved to WM/H forum after this, though).

Warmachine: Superiority gives us color schemes for

The Umber Guard
Order of the Wall Armor of Mourning

Warmachine: Escalation has a shot of

The Sanguine Escutcheon

It's not really promoted that heavily, though, because it's probably expensive to get done.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the further you get from the studio colors, the more the model seems to lose its identity--which strikes me as a pretty significant mistake in visual design that one doesn't find with the 40k range. Paint a Space Marine any color and it's recognizable immediately. It could just be that my eyes are not used to seeing these shapes, however. I do notice that Cygnar 'jacks have a more anthropomorphic head and shoulders whereas both Protectorate and Khador 'jacks have lower heads--the difference between them seeming to be height/shape of shoulders. I'm not too big a fan of homebrew but some of the studio schemes seem boring (Protectorate, Scyrah, Ultramarines Cygnar especially). IMO, the most visually boring GW army--Necrons--are the best looking of the Warmachine line (Cyrx, obviously).


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malfred wrote:(I'll probably get this thread moved to WM/H forum after this, though).

Sorry for hijacking real news here. I really do appreciate the answers though, so thanks.

malfred wrote:It's not really promoted that heavily, though, because it's probably expensive to get done.

I don't follow you here/

I just mean expensive to hire professionals to paint different versions of the same models. I
don't really know though.