Orks Vs The Bugs...

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**QuietOrkmi**

After reading the bug's new codex... I am quite discouraged... after much mulling I went from a split speed freak/ Goff list into a speed freak list... unfortunately with the power of some of those bugs I do not think boyz or mega Nobz are that much of a threat...

Quick summery of the list...
1x Ghaz, Grotsnik, 8 Mega Nobz (cybork body)
1x battle wagon: Grabbin Klaw, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota
2x mob of 20 with a power klaw
2x battle wagon: Grabbin Klaw, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota, Reinforced Ram
4x mob of 12 with a power klaw
4x Trukk: Boarding Plank

A Point in the right direction would be nice...

**Cambak**

QuietOrkmi wrote:After reading the bug's new codex... I am quite discouraged... after much mulling I went from a split speed freak/ Goff list into a speed freak list... unfortunately with the power of some of those bugs I do not think boyz or mega Nobz are that much of a threat...

Quick summery of the list...
1x Ghaz, Grotsnik, 8 Mega Nobz (cybork body)
1x battle wagon: Grabbin Klaw, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota
2x mob of 20 with a power klaw
2x battle wagon: Grabbin Klaw, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota, RPJ
4x mob of 12 with a power klaw
4x Trukk: RPJ

A Point in the right direction would be nice...

Your list is actually good against some of the Nyd tactics people have thought up. only increase the mobs of 20 to 30 so it's basically a power claw with 30 wounds in CC, and deal with the MC's. With warriors going troops a few Zapp weapon platforms would be good, seeing as they aren't immune to Instant Death. Also, it doesn't look like you have any Fast Attack so take some Kopta's (I think) with the twin linked rokkit's.

**Kveldulv**

I think he's keeping the mobs at 20 in order to fit them in BWs, heh.

I wouldn't put the slugga to the forehead just yet, your list looks dead solid. But! With the new dex the nids seems to have gotten more anti-transport firepower (just look at the hive guard), so you might want that Big Mek with the KFF.

**Culler**

When the new IG codex came out I was somewhat intimidated by all the things they could field but I found in actual play that it really wasn't that bad. I'm thinking that it will be the same for the nids, and I like that without number is gone as well. It's annoying when you're trying to run the table.

I don't think it will change the way I run my footsloggers, though I've only read reported changes and not the codex itself yet. Large Ork boy squads with PKs still seem like the bees knees for taking out MCs and I really don't feel threatened by the little gribblies. Warriors with 3 wounds each is annoying as I don't have ranged strength 8+ weaponry (excepting when I run rokkit kans, which is rare.) I use lootas a lot as well and they should work well enough against the t6 3+ save MCs.

**Da Boss**

Your list looks pretty solid.

I think the lack of 2+ saves and points increase on the MCs is going to make new nids slightly less scary than they first appear.

**QuietOrkmi**

What scares me the most is the T6 and W6...

That and all the outflanking and deep striking goodness... followed by the assaults.

**Illumini**

Powerklaws don't care about T6. I don't think nids have anything that can stop your nob unit. Your boys should take care of the smaller bugs just fine. I don't really see a huge problem with the new nids that your list can't handle.

If you want a change, I would change the meganobs to normal nobs and abuse wound allocation

**Dashofpepper**

Two things that will make your list actually scary.

Big Mek with a KFF giving all your vehicles 4+ cover saves
15-strong unit of burna boys who giggle their way through the entrails of monstrous creatures and swarms alike.

**Da Boss**

Agreed on the big mek, and the burnas. Just remember burnas are way more dangerous if they don't dismount.

**Culler**

Dashofpepper wrote:
15-strong unit of burna boys who giggle their way through the entrails of monstrous creatures and swarms alike.

As much as I love that phrasing, the 6-wound MCs that will frequent nid lists like tervigons will actually tend to beat or tie the burnas when they charge it. There's also some gribbly with a 3+ invuln or so I hear.

However, there seems like there's fewer strength 8+ MCs in lists in favor of taking the strength 6 toughness 6 wounds 6 MCs, so meganobz will generally perform well still.

**Dashofpepper**

666?

Hrm....

**Culler**

Dashofpepper wrote:666?

Hrm....

Indeed. Looks like the writer may have been corrupted by thinking about the warp too much.

**Carnuss**

I got my first experience bumping heads with the new nids yesterday, and it wasn't as bad as they billed it. In turn 2, I wiped a Swarmlord with guard, along with 2 groups of 20 gaunts. I sacrificed Snikrot to hold down his other tough group, which was warriors with an alpha, preventing him from getting a counter assault. Net result -

At the end of turn 3, I had collected 10 kill points on gaunts, HQs, zoanthropes, hive guard, tyrant guard... You name it, it had gone down. What he had left was a couple of tervigons that couldn't poop out anymore gaunts, 10 to 15 gaunts left on the board trying to hold down some of my boyz, and 3 or 4 warriors running desperately to get away from my burnas. We called it at that point.

I lost a grand total of 2 groups of 12 boyz, Snikrot, and a trukk. Some casualties on my remaining groups, but who cares as long as the klaw is still thumping away... That's it.

Was his army as good as it could possibly be? I can't say that for certain. It didn't have any blaring errors in it other than a distinct lack of mobility. Watching his Swarmlord die to combat resolution when he had to save vs. 30 wounds from severely lost combat was fun, though. All the Zoanthropes in the world can't stop those vehicles from getting there turn 2, particularly since your assault range can completely exclude their effective range when Thraka is providing a fixed 6 inch run.

My friend tried a similar but different list the game before against another ork player at the shop. He tried a Mawloc on that attempt. The net result of the Mawloc was that it tried to hit lootas, skewed so far off that it landed in the midst of his trukks and wagons, and died that turn to a humble assault force of just 2 trukks of boyz.

So far, I haven't seen a tyranid list that is any more deadly than their previous carnifex spam, but it does have a great deal more variety. It's good that they didn't throw the world out of order with the codex though. That's actually how it's supposed to be.

**QuietOrkmi**

Big Mek and Burna Boyz sound good (Tankshock and then pile 15 flame templates)

However this means I would need to drop Grotsnik and the Meganobz (Not worth fielding without the 5++)

I could replace them with a troop of 18 boyz in the battle wagon and drop the other 2 units of 20 boyz. Replacing them with 2 units of 15 burnas. Now with 159 points to spare I could run another 12 boyz in a Trukk with a Boarding Plank...

Ps: Updated the list after realizing that 1" is not that important when I could run & assault 6" after moving 12" (24" total), Boarding planks are more important in my opinion as assaulting vehicles without getting out is HUGE! So I traded the Red Paint Job with Boarding Planks.

**Broken Loose**

You can only fire burnaz out of a vehicle if it moved 6" or less, 7" if you have RPJ. Neither Fast nor Open-topped provide a bonus to passengers firing out of a transport.

**JEB_Stuart**

Drop the boarding planks too if you are playing nids in a non-tournament setting. They won't do you any good. In fact, drop the extras except for Deff Rollas, RPJ, Big Shootas for BWs and Reinforced Rams for Trukks. If you got the extra points, maybe a kannon on each of the BWs. I always seem to have great luck with those.

**QuietOrkmi**

The problem is that there are other players besides the 2-3 bug players...

As it stands there exist 2-3 Bug Players, 2-3 Marine players , 2-3 Ork players (Myself Included), 2-3 Eldar players and a guard player...

In addition, Deffrolla has been ruled to not work on vehicles...

**Illumini**

Deffrolla is good even without anti-tank abilities, and it has become better with the new nids. You can tank shock their warriors, pods etc. and watch them explode from instant death. Some S10 hits on the bigs bugs won't hurt either.

The deffrolla is cheap for what you get, dozerblade + super tank shock abilities for 20 pts, yes please

**QuietOrkmi**

The problem is I give up my ability to destroy enemy transports of other armies...

So while I do slightly better against bugs, I would just lose against other armies...

**Illumini**

Are you talking about the rolla? How does it make you worse against other armies?

**wuestenfux**

Da Boss wrote:Your list looks pretty solid.

I think the lack of 2+ saves and points increase on the MCs is going to make new nids slightly less scary than they first appear.

Possibly.
But those new MC's, Trygon and Tervigon, are very scary.

**QuietOrkmi**

@Illumini: Most other armies have meched up into transports, have enough models to sustain the Instant Death from d6 S10, and finally the deff rolla allows armor saves...

Adding the Deffrolla will not cause me to lose, it is what I am giving up that might cause that... Mainly my Anti-Tank capabilities...

This thread was not suppose to be, how do orks beat bugs, but rather how do we adapt to the presence of bugs.

Burna boyz are a good example as to adapt, they have power weapons and throw out a lot of templates... they are still good against other armies because you can just drop something to add them...

Deff Rolla in my opinion, is not a good example because d6 S10 attacks is not awesome against anyone except bugs... because it allows armor saves and they simply have another foot soldier to replace the one that got squished... I understand that bugs cannot simply replace a T5 W4 model, hence why it is good against them...

**Illumini**

I'm aware that most armies are mech, but I don't see how you loose anti-tank by taking the rolla. You will have to use 15 pts over the normal 5 for just a ram. I'm not saying that ork players should always put deffrollas on their wagons, just that it is a good buy, and especially so now with the new nids

**Kroot Loops**

The only issue would be if the extra points cut into lootas or other anti-armor selection. Even when ruled that a Deff Rolla doesn't cause str 10 hits on a vehicle, A BW with a deff rolla still rams a vehicle as an AV 14 tank, the same as one with a reinforced ram.

**QuietOrkmi**

Kroot Loops wrote:The only issue would be if the extra points cut into lootas or other anti-armor selection. Even when ruled that a Deff Rolla doesn't cause str 10 hits on a vehicle, A BW with a deff rolla still rams a vehicle as an AV 14 tank, the same as one with a reinforced ram.

As the old adage goes... If it cost more than what you have, then it is too expensive...

But I will agree that Deffrollas are now nicer to have at the tournament floor because of the New Bugs...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JEB_Stuart wrote:Drop the boarding planks too if you are playing nids in a non-tournament setting. They won't do you any good. In fact, drop the extras except for Deff Rollas, RPJ, Big Shootas for BWs and Reinforced Rams for Trukks. If you got the extra points, maybe a kannon on each of the BWs. I always seem to have great luck with those.

In a friendly game, I agree with JEB_Stuart.

**PipeAlley**

Illumini wrote:I'm aware that most armies are mech, but I don't see how you loose anti-tank by taking the rolla. You will have to use 15 pts over the normal 5 for just a ram. I'm not saying that ork players should always put deffrollas on their wagons, just that it is a good buy, and especially so now with the new nids

I'll say all BW's should have DeffRollas

No matter what he's right about it only costing 15 pts since all vehicles should have at least RR.

DeffRolla shocks a Marine Squad and hits 3.5 on average. Wounds 2.917, saves are taken at 3+ so you get 0.972 dead marines at 16pts gives you 15.6 killed. The DeffRolla just paid for itself by squishing the most common model in the game.

BTW when and where was the Rolla ruled not to work against vehicles? I've been out of the loop for 2 months.

As for the OP. 15 Burnas with OR without KFF with Burna in BW (with DeffRolla of course

). Template that ignores cover and 5+ save. 16 Burnas also kill 1.333 X the number of TH/SS Terminators just as an example of other uses. Boy I sure miss the extra D6 for armor pen. that the Burna use to get. And tankbustas aren't tankhunters?!?!?! I'll quit whining now.

**labmouse42**

QuietOrkmi wrote:What scares me the most is the T6 and W6...

That and all the outflanking and deep striking goodness... followed by the assaults.

10 nobs armed with big choppas would tear that apart.
If the nobs charge (and out of truuks, they probably will), thats 40 STR 7 attacks at I4. Time to chop down some trees lads!

**Da Boss**

Nobody arms entire mobs of nobs with big choppas though. You generally have 2-3 with big choppas and 2-3 with power klaws, a painboy and a couple of others. Either way, you will put the hurt on an MC with a Nobz squad. Just make sure you don't leave yourself open to being countercharged by something with boneswords...

**labmouse42**

I used the 10 choppas as an example.
The normal nob squad has a lot more flexability (and cost)

**QuietOrkmi**

So upgrading to Deffrolla (when put that way) does seem more like an adaptation rather than a blatant change...

My main concern is what to drop for the 20 point upgrade on my 3 battlewagons...

I suppose I could Drop a single Trukk and then fiddle around with ~90 points