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I have gotten confused after reading a post from a fellow dakkanite.

In 5th Edition, can you fire under a skimmer(devilfish in this example)

Asking this because it effects FoF. If I have it right, in 5 ed you have to have TLOS on an enemy. So If you're units can't actually see the enemy from under the devilfish then you can't use this stategy, right? need clarification.

If you can see, you can shoot. No vision means no shooting.

Get down and check. If you can see, you can shoot. It really is THAT simple.

Unless you're trying to shoot using Wraithguard.

Pika_power wrote:Unless you're trying to shoot using Wraithguard.

Don't start THAT again!

or 'Nids with their new "i don't need LOS" living ammo.

Only the kneeling fire warriors can see trust me I've checked.

Sternguard_rock wrote:Only the kneeling fire warriors can see trust me I've checked.

WTB KNEELING FIREWARRIORS!

It's a fluff reason, honest!!!!

Cool, I didn't try this cause I thought it was cheesy, but hey, Tau need all the cheese they can get to stay competitive.

Praxiss wrote:or 'Nids with their new "i don't need LOS" living ammo.

Where's it say this / how is it justified? I'd love if my nid's could do that

As stated above if you can see from the firer's head to the enemy you can then shoot. Not sure how tall the devilfish's flight stand is, but I know the tallest flight stands will allow this.

On the converse side though if the enemy can see the legs/arms/ torso/head of your fire warriors then they can return fire.

So if a Fire Warrior can shoot behind a devil fish, that means that fire warrior can be shot at even though it's behingd a devil fish. It goes both ways, if it can fire, it can be hit.

Davor wrote:So if a Fire Warrior can shoot behind a devil fish, that means that fire warrior can be shot at even though it's behingd a devil fish. It goes both ways, if it can fire, it can be hit.

Not always. For example (red dots are Eyes, forgot to add that):

Those are some tall marinnnzzz. I have actually seen the opposite happen. While the majority of the Tau could not fire, the enemy could still see the legs/lower portion of the tau and decimated them. Of course they got a cover save (which they did not need), peed on themselves, and ran away hehe.

The Devilfish in question was on a flying base.

talk about modeling for an advantage....

Kurgash wrote:talk about modeling for an advantage....

Some models sold are kneeling.

kirsanth wrote:

Kurgash wrote:talk about modeling for an advantage....

Some models sold are kneeling.

Talking more for people to start modeling all their models kneeling but yeah I see where you are coming from.

Gwar! wrote:

Davor wrote:So if a Fire Warrior can shoot behind a devil fish, that means that fire warrior can be shot at even though it's behingd a devil fish. It goes both ways, if it can fire, it can be hit.

Not always. For example (red dots are Eyes, forgot to add that):

sooo.... what you're really saying is that tau players should buy/build kneeling fire warriors AND mount mirrors on devilfish bases! time to go to the dollar store...

Or just use the taller flight stands. I use an additional magnetic gubbin so I can remove the flight stands that adds half-an-inch to the stand itself.

(Actually, I use those on my Hammerheads too; I have two taller and two shorter stands, and just grab one and put it on a tank).

sooo.... what you're really saying is that tau players should buy/build kneeling fire warriors AND mount mirrors on devilfish bases! time to go to the dollar store...

Dont the tau fire metal slugs? That is one hellova mirror

I dont have my BRB in front of me but isnt there a rule that states you have to use the "flying base supplied with the model" and something about not allowed to change the height of the model for modeling advantage? I dont think most people mind but I was very careful when I did my eldar flying bases. I magnatized them to the base and made sure I cut off enough of the stem to keep the height the same.

Fishboy wrote:

sooo.... what you're really saying is that tau players should buy/build kneeling fire warriors AND mount mirrors on devilfish bases! time to go to the dollar store...

Dont the tau fire metal slugs? That is one hellova mirror

I dont have my BRB in front of me but isnt there a rule that states you have to use the "flying base supplied with the model" and something about not allowed to change the height of the model for modeling advantage? I dont think most people mind but I was very careful when I did my eldar flying bases. I magnatized them to the base and made sure I cut off enough of the stem to keep the height the same.

space communists make the best mirrors in the galaxy! you have to look good to do the greater good! most people wouldn't mind if you tweak the base a bit (by adding scenery or changing the height a 1/2 inch either way as long as it looks cool). anything more than that and it might raise suspicion, unless your conversion is so awesome that people forget completely about the base. there's always a chance that you'll run into TFG, though.

The flight base stand I do not believe has rules upon which pole you can use. Your using the base supplied jsut using a taller or shorter stand. If anything modeling it on taller bases is modeling for a disadvantage as you well be able to be shot back at from under the tank and it considerably more difficult for a tank to get behind terrain for LoS blocking/obscuring.

In soviet T'au, gun shoot you

Kurgash wrote:Talking more for people to start modeling all their models kneeling but yeah I see where you are coming from.

People have been predicted a rush of kneeling models since at least 2nd edition, since LOS has always worked this way.

Most players realise that modelling for advantage serves no purpose other than to reduce the number of people who will play against you.

So what is the result? Now that I've read everything I don't feel like there was an answer. No more fish-of-fury, pretty much?

- Blackbone

If you can see it, you can shoot it.

Its that simple

A 5 mm tall crater can give cover if, using TLoS, it covers the treads on the boot of the target model. It is amusing that GW assumes because the 'real' soldiers would be moving and taking advantage of cover it provides cover. But in another rule, if a model is 'modeled' standing up and shooting it does not represent 'real' soldiers shooting who would be taking advantage of flexible joints.

I do not disagree with the rule. It's a game – a couple of kneeling firewarriors can crack off a few shots and maybe my kneeling missle-launchers can return fire and if that wins or loses the game...oh well. Complain to the marine that fired the melta from 4" away in to the rear armor of an immobilized CSM Rhino that stopped 2.99" from an objective on turn 6 and rolls a

Like many rules discussions they fall apart as soon as 'the real world' is discussed.

Teeef wrote:A 5 mm tall crater can give cover if, using TLoS, it covers the treads on the boot of the target model.

Common misconception. Page 21 regarding claiming cover, "When any part of the target model's body (as defined on page 16) is obscured from the point of view of the firer" Page 16 says, "for body we mean its head, torso, legs and arms".

Blackbone wrote:So what is the result? Now that I've read everything I don't feel like there was an answer. No more fish-of-fury, pretty much?

- Blackbone

Shooting through your own tank fish of fury is gone. If you can see the enemy you can fire. The main issue with FoF in 5th is that you can find ways of firing but most of which put your fire warriors and devilfish at risk.

People have been predicted a rush of kneeling models since at least 2nd edition, since LOS has always worked this way.

I actually made this mistake with a firewarrior squad. I set the squad up that half were kneeling in an old edition of rules (just liked the models) but saw some advantage in this edition. Problem was I could no longer see over walls and such. When in terrain I typically blocked my line of site with terrain....DOH!!