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Just like the rumors

Army wide special rules:

Ambush: Gor and Ungor units can "ambush", if there is another equivalent unit of the same size or larger in the main battle line. They do so by rolling on the following table:

1 - Enemy chooses the board edge
2 + 3: Don't come in this round
4: Beastman player's left edge
5: Beastman player's right edge
6: Beastman player chooses (including behind enemy)

Character's can't Ambush, except for the special ungor champ

Primal Fury:

Units with Primal Fury (Gors, Ungors, Bestigors, Tuskgor Chariots, characters) take a leadershp test when they get in combat. They get Hatred if they pass, just for that phase, even if it's not the first phase in the combat.

Lords:

Beastlord: This is a fairly typical combat character. He's got 100 points for gifts + items, none of which are amazing. He's got 5 for str and tough, and 4 attacks, and that's about the most impressive things about him. He's also ld 9. The only mount options he's got are the tuskgor chariot and the new razorgor chariot. He's got Primal Fury.

Doombull: This is a much fightier guy. He's got an ogre base, and 5 wounds. He's got a point higher strength, and another attack. He doesn't have primal fury though, and his leadership is only 8. He's Frenzy, and gives it to any unit he joins (taking away their Primal Fury at the same time) and has BloodGreed. The new Bloodgreed makes the unit in question only pursue or overrun d6 inches.

Great Bray Shaman: This is the Caster Lord. He's more expensive than the Beastlord, natch, and doesn't really fight (though he's still t5). He's level 3 and can be upgraded to level 4, has 100 points of items, and can have a chariot if he wants. He's between the other two in terms of point cost.

Typical caster lord, he can use the new Lore of the Beasts, or any of the more evil lores from the main book (think Death, Shadow, Beasts).

Khazrak:

He's slightly more expensive than a typical Beastlord with full gear (comparable cost really), and has a slightly better statline. He lets his ambushers reroll on the chart. He's got a weapon that can trade out his attacks for the # of enemy models in the front rank, unless he's in a challenge. His armor makes enemy magic weapons mundane.

Gorthor:

He's about as expensive as a Beastlord with full items on a chariot. He rides a Tuskgor chariot, but can pay some points to get it upgraded to a razorgor chariot. He's got KB, and his leadership goes 18". It's 9 like the Beastlord though.

Malagor:

He's a level 4 Caster, who flies. He also can pick the same lores as the Bray Shaman, and flies. Enemy units in 6" of him can't use their general's ld unless he's in their unit, while friendlies in 6" of him get to reroll their primal fury. He's about the same price as Gorthor.

To my mind, he's the right Lord for a magic heavy list, better for the points than a Great Bray Shaman.

Taurox:

He's a Doombull made of brass, and he hits like a truck. He's got a pair of axes that ignore armor saves and are flaming, and he's just as frenzied/bloodgreedy as the normal Doombull, but has slightly higher stats. He's also toting a 1+ armor save. He's got a weakness though, if any attack hits him on a 6 and wounds him on a 6 and he fails his save it's instantly fatal. He's got more attacks and more toughness/wounds than a normal Doombull though.

Heroes:

Wargor:

Basic fighting hero. Just like a smaller Beastlord. He's only s4, same chariot options. He can be BSB

Gorebull:

Fighting minotaur hero, just like a smaller Doombull. He's still s5, still fighty, 4 wounds. Same frenzy troubles as the rest of the boss minotaurs. He can also be bsb.

Bray Shaman:

Typical caster hero. Take 2 with scrolls and call me in the morning.

Morghur:

He's about as expensive as a Beastlord with full gear. He's got a weaker statline (t5, 2 wounds are the standouts), and his powers are much reduced.

During the magic phase you remove a friendly model within 12", and on a 3+ put a spawn in its place. He's also still immune to stuff from beyond 12". He does s3 attacks to BSB models before init, so that's down a point of str. It still ignores armor saves though. He's also still unbreakable.

Slugtongue:

He's a level 2 mage, about as expensive as a Great Bray Shaman without gear. He can take Death or the new Lore. He's got regenerate and his one attack is poison.

His big gimmick is that after deployment you roll for each enemy unit within 36" of him. 1-3 they are fine, 4-5 they take d3 wounds without saves, 6 they take d6. He's like a famine guy.

Moonclaw:

He's the price of a Great Bray Shaman, with an option to buy a cavalry mount for him for like another 50 points. He's a weak mage (can't recall if level 1 or 2), and he makes everyone within 12", friendly or enemy, Stupid. One round 1 2 or 3, determined secretly beforehand, he gets d3+1 stone thrower shots. He's also got a 5+ ward save.

Core:

Gors: Bad fighting infantry. They are about like Ork boys, tough 4 and ws 4 are their best points.

Ungors: Worse fighting in fantry, they are abotu like skaven warriors, minus anything terribly good. They have a super champ who's pretty cheap. He gets ld each round, pass and he's a better warrior, fail and he's a first level mage with a random spell.

Ungor raiders: Skirmishing archers with short bows. These guys and the two above are Ambushers.

Tuskgor Chariot: 5 points cheaper, no scythes, still counts for mandatory choices. Tuskgors no longer have s5 on the charge, now s4 all the time. These guys and the above 3 have Primal Fury.

Warhounds: Same as WoC warhounds, don't count for mandatory Core.

Special:

Minotaurs: They are over 50 points each before you give them wargear, and their gear is pretty expensive. They can have full command, and are s5 before the great weapons. They've got Bloodgreed, so they only pursue and overrun d6 inches and get frenzy if they win a round of combat.

Centigaur: They aren't fast cav. They don't move through terrain. They are just basic cav now, move 8 at least. They've got spears, and can buy great weapons if they want. Just medium cav. They get to roll on a table before the game, 1-2 is +2 init (bringing them from 2 to 4), 3-4 is reroll failed primal fury rolls, 5-6 is stubborn, but -1 move.

They can take a special character champ, who is actually pretty cool. He's got a good ws, s5 and a d3 wound weapon. He also makes them core, and can take Look Out Sir rules as long as there is one of his unit left.

Bestigors: They come with heavy armor and great weapons, and still have primal fury.

Razorgors: Great Ogre based models. They are the same cost as Minotaurs, but s5 and t5, with 4 attacks and on the charge their s goes to 6. They go 7 instead of 6. First class unit.

Harpies: As per Dark Elf codex, but they are also able to Scout for +3 points each.

Rare:

Ghorghon: This thing is almost 300 points, basically a super minotaur. It's got frenzy, ITP and stubborn at ld 10. It only pursues/overruns d6. It's got amazing statline, almost all 6's, like am mini-kholek. It can do a Swallows Whole thing, but it's really bad, better to just fight.

Cygor: Same point line as the Ghorghon, but with 5's for wounds, tough, and only ws 2 instead of 4. It's a stone thrower though, as long as it doesn't march, and it can reroll hits vs. anyone who is undead, has magic items, or magic attacks, or has a ward save, or is a Mage. Also, enemies within 24" have to take a ld test at the start of their magic phase, if they fail any failed casts are miscasts. Still stubborn, but only 8 instead of 10 for ld.

Jabberslyth: Flying thing with 5's for stats (str, tough, attacks, etc.), so it's a flying terror causing rank breaker. Also, any non ITP enemy within 12" has to take a ld test or take wounds equal to however much it fails. Not sure if it's stubborn, but I don't think it is.

Giant: Same as Ork giant. Typical guy, typical price.

Spawn: Same as elsewhere, 1-2 for a Rare slot.

Spells:

Don't recall precisely, but the 0 is a move spell that can't make charges, the 1 is a 5d6 s1 magic missile that doesn't ignore armor saves, there's a blessing that gives +d6 attacks and +d6 str, but 6's wound the guy without a save, s3 breathe weapon from caster or someone nearby that ignores armor save, spell that makes mounts and monsters rebel and attack handlers/riders, spell that makes enemies take ld or take wounds equal to how much they failed by, and a spell that summons a Monster, basically any of the rare choices.

... I pleased to have a new codex but i want my dragon orges back.

The book seems to have a lot of time wasting rules - roll LD for this effect - roll LD for that effect. Yes - it adds a bit of chaos to playing the army, but does it add any real benefit for all the time it will take?

You guys lost Trolls, Ogres, Drago Ogres and Shaggoth?
Good luck

Oops, sorry about that, I didn't put Razorgors in initially. They make up for the loss of the other Ogre based models.

I've got to say, nothing about that excites me.
Thanks for the review though. Shame those fugly razorgor are a good choice

Thanks for the review 40k. I like a lot of what I see here, quite curious to see how things play out. Pretty sure we can all see what The Build will be - magic, chariots, razors, mino / centigor, 2x cygors or gorgon + cygor - but I wonder how it will all play out in reality.

Looking forward to buying the book myself!

- Salvage

I read the book last night. Entertaining read. Nothing ridiculously overpowered, nothing that stands out, and only a few terrible things.

The raider rule starting at turn 1 can be huge if you take enough. I would include 6 units of 10 gors with 2x handweapon just for this. Someone is gonna show up and drive the enemy wild turn 1. Someone will march on from their own deployment zone too but if they do it turn 1 it isnt to bad.
The skirmishing archers could be good. Equal to skinks really.

I kinda think bestigors are overpriced. Depends on if you get the ambush to work for them but that required two units. However, they are brutal on the charge. 2x GW attacks at st6 rerolling to hit is very good.

Not really sold on centagors. They have the same hitting power as bestigors and 1.5x the movement for twice the price.

Minators vs rasorgors will be a long and entertaining debate. Impact hits vs +1 str is mostly a wash. Options on the minators are very expensive but hndwpn/shield could be good and washes out hte loss of the toughness. The minators do do one thing far better than the others - Prolonged combat against units such as undead. They get stronger each time they win combat (extra attack every round). At some point nobody will be able to raise enough to replace them.


Other thoughts
The bound spell that lets everyone within 36in of the beastman (hero or lord beastman) move is incredible.
A doombull with a 1+ AS and 7 attacks that reroll to hit in addition to impact hits will wreck everything.
The 6th spell is crazy good but you cant rely on rolling it, i predict one lvl 4 caster with scrolls will be the only caster in a good army. Provides some defense and is most likely going to get one of the top two spells, both of which are great.
One cygor is a requirement in every beastman army, the other rare is up for grabs (I like the flying guy cause he kills chaos mortals at ld8 with no AS)

Already trying to figure out what models to use for the Razorgors, rather then the GW ones, who look like they are in the middle of having a stroke.

@ cypher "2x GW attacks at st6 rerolling to hit is very good. " Two attacks each, or are you just counting the re-roll to hit? All other reports listed the Bestigors as having 1 attack.

They only have 1 attack.

It's odd, but there's like a thousand ways to get a preposterous strength score in this list.

Even just a Gorebull holding a GW is hitting like a truck. The banner of +1 to strength, the banner of -2 to armor saves of units touching this unit...it all adds up to a lot of hitting power.

What's lacking is staying power. The list is filled with things that kick trash, but don't hold. Also, lots of non ITP guys. Good or bad, depending on whether they are fear causers.

Cypher I normally agree with you, but I can't see a use for the "get closer by d6+1" spell. It doesn't let you charge. when would you use it? Seems like it just gets you into charge range for the enemy.

Edit: Also, the only way to get magic attacks is having your characters carry magic weapons or cast spells. Wraiths and the like could be vexing.

x2 Jabberslyth's flopping around in the middle (rear of course) of an enemy without ITP should cause havok, especially as most have pretty lame Ld, especially Empire, Bretts, O&G, Skaven (peripheral units)
Just fly them to positions out of charge each turn and double team the Ld rolls, you can even bring them up for when combat is on...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also... I just read the book.

WHFB armybooks are getting worse and worse the further we move into 7th ed. Up until VC they were relatively well balanced & special rules were not stacked 3-4 per unit/monster.

When did the studio hire 8 year olds to write the rules?

Wierd, it didnt post

40k:
I like the movement ability because as you pointed out the army is filled with units that cant take a hit. Shooting will destroy a beastman army quickly. For that reason they need to move quickly up the field for the first few turns.

Against combat armies they will want to move quickly up and pin the combat army against their ranks and the ambushing units coming in.

The first couple movement phases are huge in fantasy and this bound item will give you a let up in them.

Not really game breaking but it could be huge.

Yea, thought bestigors had 2 attacks. wops. They are terrible without such a thing. The whole army really cannot take a charge. It will rely on lots of units baiting chargers out and counter charging with combos of ranked units/chariots. A couple big beasties to mess with the enemy movement. With stubborn I am rethinking my preference of jabber dude over the giant minataur

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
WHFB armybooks are getting worse and worse the further we move into 7th ed. Up until VC they were relatively well balanced & special rules were not stacked 3-4 per unit/monster.

When did the studio hire 8 year olds to write the rules?

That rough, huh?

Shame to hear.

WG: You seriously think Beastmen are unbalanced? Which way? Too weak or too strong?

What WG may be getting at is the apparent required use of Rare monsters with complicated rules in the new Beasts book.

Used to be an army build would start with 2-4 big blocks of troops, then be enhanced with a few special and rare unit choices. This new book is the opposite - fill out the special and rare slots, then take enough core to stay legal.

@RanTheCid
Isn't that how most WFB armies are these days?

I play Woodies and I take a lot of core, but most armies I see take only the minimum or just little pinner squads to take table quarters.

Kind of lame really, I hope 8th ed places a bigger emphasis on core units somehow.

Can you have an all minotaur army? I am interested to see if one could go heavy minotaur as the plastics look pretty good, but the GW paintjob does not.

I think you can, you can make them core with a doombull.

Doombulls for heroes,

Minos for core

Rare mino for rare choice.

Cool army, I think, and hits like a freight train.

I'm pretty sure the Minos as core is gone - even with a Doombull.

RanTheCid wrote:What WG may be getting at is the apparent required use of Rare monsters with complicated rules in the new Beasts book.

Used to be an army build would start with 2-4 big blocks of troops, then be enhanced with a few special and rare unit choices. This new book is the opposite - fill out the special and rare slots, then take enough core to stay legal.

Bingo.

Also the fool who thought up the 'summon monster' spell needs to be kicked in the jatz crackers...




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10 core chariots makes a nice start for a beastmen army....

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:10 core chariots makes a nice start for a beastmen army....

$300 USD in tired metal chariots, yuck

But you're right on 'Nads, 'token core' is where the Beasts look to be at. Vom to that, but maybe 8th will sort things out with infantry being worthwhile? Maybe?

- Salvage

If 8th will sort out the core to some extent then they would have been priced to match.

Might explain why most of em seem to be a few points to expensive per core model.

I actually think you could build a decent core heavy beastman army.
Say 4-6 units of 15 gores (ambush half), 4 units of skimishers, and 6 or so chariots.

Its expensive but baring horrible ambushing rolls it could hit someone prety hard out of nowhere.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

RanTheCid wrote:What WG may be getting at is the apparent required use of Rare monsters with complicated rules in the new Beasts book.

Used to be an army build would start with 2-4 big blocks of troops, then be enhanced with a few special and rare unit choices. This new book is the opposite - fill out the special and rare slots, then take enough core to stay legal.

Bingo.

Also the fool who thought up the 'summon monster' spell needs to be kicked in the jatz crackers...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
10 core chariots makes a nice start for a beastmen army....

Just out of curiosity, why is the summon monster spell so bad? I thought it would be over powered but since it makes the caster relativly useless while its up seemed to even it out. Although though if you had multiple sorcerers all safe like, and had monsters popping up... yeah that would suck...

As much as i like chariots im worried that after this edition they'll come up with " just like wood elves beastmen skirmishes in the woods , makes no sense to have chariots"

And removes the unit from codex...

You have a good point Lunahound... chariots (in WHFB) avoid forests/woods like the plague....

Reecius wrote:@RanTheCid
Isn't that how most WFB armies are these days?

I play Woodies and I take a lot of core, but most armies I see take only the minimum or just little pinner squads to take table quarters.

Kind of lame really, I hope 8th ed places a bigger emphasis on core units somehow.

Hey hey, lets be fair now.

Woodies take lots of core because you get great skirmishing fighters with multiple attacks, some nice shooting infantry, and some fast cav.

No one takes blocks of troops, which is generally what people mean when they say "take lots of core".

If GW wanted people to buy more core they would make block units not suck so bad. Most armies core are expensive for what they do, suck so bad they can't be justified other than Min requirements, or both. Until they make SCR more powerful, or core level blocks do anything other than make a handful of attacks that don't do anything, people are going to min max their cores.

Same with 40k troop choices. To "fix" that issue they made it so only troops can score... Which is fine, but it did force people to buy a bunch of models they didn't own before because in the previous edition they did nothing.

IMHO what made core not so attractive is the fact that you have to buy so many models to get the rank bonus you need. 150-300 points on a unit that isn't really meant to kill anything, and the best they can hope for in combat is 5+ or so SCR? Bleh, my (insert special, hero, or rare choice) can KILL more than that, and still have some static res.

From what I have read the beastmen book isn't going to blow anyone out of the water. It isn't going to change the meta. What it will do is give beastmen players something that doesn't completely suck, and they have the tools to win games again.

If I were a beastmen player I would be furious. So not only did they take away the ability to run daemons and normals, but they took away half of the monsters? Why do the Warriors of chaos get shaggoths and dragon ogres? Most WoC armies don't even use them! The BEAST men army would like to have them.

What do people think about harpies? Will they be taken even if they take up a special slot? Is scouting fliers worth the cost? I think they are a nice addition, but the special slots quite often become a bit tight on selections.

Boss_Salvage wrote:

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:10 core chariots makes a nice start for a beastmen army....

$300 USD in tired metal chariots, yuck

But you're right on 'Nads, 'token core' is where the Beasts look to be at. Vom to that, but maybe 8th will sort things out with infantry being worthwhile? Maybe?

- Salvage

3 plastic chariots - $20
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/_product_16676/Celt_Chariots

5 plastic angry pigs - $15
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1040021&prodId=prod1290039

Box of ungors $24.75 (10 figures)
Box of Gors $24.75 (10 figures)

10 plastic chariots for $189.50
Even cheaper if you can recycle Gors/Ungors infantry out of your old Beasts of Chaos army.

I don't have any question that Harpies will be used. They are non ITP flying skirmishers. Amazing unit. Only the fact that they are special hurts them, but I bet we have at least one in literally every competitive list.