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notabot187 wrote:If I were a beastmen player I would be furious. So not only did they take away the ability to run daemons and normals, but they took away half of the monsters? Why do the Warriors of chaos get shaggoths and dragon ogres? Most WoC armies don't even use them! The BEAST men army would like to have them.

gone past anger ... i now know GW hate Beast men .... First i loose having some fun with daemons ... that i can live with but now i'm stuck with an army that is some core beast men and warirors of chaos rares n' specails ... Oh and we don't get marks any more ....

well my amys going to stay boxed up i haven't the time to paint up new rares and specials.

Ahh, and the complaints roll in. Nobody wants to lose any options, ever.

Lost the shaggoth, gained three huge monsters and now your minataurs cause impact hits...

AND all 3 of those monsters make it more obvious how very bad the shaggoth is, W0C or otherwise. 285 points gets you a shaggy with gw, and for 10 points less each one of the Beast uber-rares are worlds better

- Salvage

I think part of the problem is people already own one model, like using it, and just want good rules to go with it. Instead GW forces them to either buy new models, convert new models, or say screw this and stop playing beastmen.

The mark issue only bothers me because I know people that have done a decent amount of work to make their units match the marks they took.

All in all I think the book is a huge improvement over the old. Not exactly hard to make a terrible book not terrible. I just think how they did it was a bit annoying.

I dunno, I think the new book looks hella dull. the old book was interesting, with the raiders rule and the ambush rule making beastmen something distinctly other in the WFB meta.

notabot187 wrote:I think part of the problem is people already own one model, like using it, and just want good rules to go with it. Instead GW forces them to either buy new models, convert new models, or say screw this and stop playing beastmen.

The mark issue only bothers me because I know people that have done a decent amount of work to make their units match the marks they took.

All in all I think the book is a huge improvement over the old. Not exactly hard to make a terrible book not terrible. I just think how they did it was a bit annoying.

QFT , the codic / army books no longer are made with players in mind.

Only purpose of pushing current products and selling off older product that people doesnt seem to touch in previous editions.

Side question! ( so i dont have to creat a new thread )
Does mixing plastic gor + Chaos Marauder horsemen make good centigors?

notabot187 wrote:I think part of the problem is people already own one model, like using it, and just want good rules to go with it. Instead GW forces them to either buy new models, convert new models, or say screw this and stop playing beastmen.

The mark issue only bothers me because I know people that have done a decent amount of work to make their units match the marks they took.

All in all I think the book is a huge improvement over the old. Not exactly hard to make a terrible book not terrible. I just think how they did it was a bit annoying.

That's my point i have no problem with rules changes ... i have yet to read the codex ingreat detail ... but i have models with marks, trolls, ogres, dragon ogres, a Chaos giant and my shaggoth that i used as a general. (i also have some spawns i was given .... but then i can live without them)

For give me for feeling upset that i can no long play with, at least, £100 of my army ...
... i have 2 options 1) buy new beastmen models 2) buy new warriors of chaos models .... Nether is really that cheap or that great. I'm waiting on the new codex before i make a final judgement.

Promote that shaggoth to a Gorgonzola dude and call it good. I dont think to many people will complain about it.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Hey hey, lets be fair now.

Woodies take lots of core because you get great skirmishing fighters with multiple attacks, some nice shooting infantry, and some fast cav.

No one takes blocks of troops, which is generally what people mean when they say "take lots of core".

Yeah, I guess that is true. WE core are pretty damn useful. I like them because they play like a 40K army! haha, so the transition between systems was easy for me.

Gorgonzola dude! Haha, that is what his actual entry in the Army Book should say.

Yup,
you have the standard giant
the cyclopse
the jabber-thingi (jabberwalky being taken)
and the gorgonzola dude

Reading the batrep, I misunderstood the way that bloodgreed worked. I may have to reexamine the Ghorgon and Minotaurs.

@Cypher
Are you going to the Broadside bash or to the SoCal slaughter? It would be good to catch up, been a long time since we got a game in.

The magic items in this book are TERRIBLE.

That's it. I'm taking like 50 small units and ambushing all but the one large one. There will be beastmen coming from EVERYWHERE!!!

Spellbound wrote:The magic items in this book are TERRIBLE.

That's it. I'm taking like 50 small units and ambushing all but the one large one. There will be beastmen coming from EVERYWHERE!!!

Advantage of this tactic now is that your 10 gors unit will remove ranks when you hit an enemy in the flank or rear.

The Muscletaurs and sameigors with your 2 rare monsters advance across the field and when they hit the enemy has 10 gor and ungor units coming in from the table edges.

the magic Items are awesome for beastmen this time around. The last time they were cheated out of the good ones but this time I like them i mean for example you have 2 shamans and one has a good spell give the other the shard of herdstone and have both of them stand next to it. they both get a free power dice for being within 6" of it XD

Oh believe me I know. Minotaurs don't seem quite so bad. As many MSU units of Minotaurs as I can take and a SWARM of basic beastmen infantry seems like it could work out quite well. Haven't pointed anything up, but the downside is I think it doesn't stand a chance against anything competitive and would get very boring to play after a while.

well I like the idea of the stampede XD

RanTheCid wrote:
3 plastic chariots - $20
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/_product_16676/Celt_Chariots

5 plastic angry pigs - $15
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1040021&prodId=prod1290039

Box of ungors $24.75 (10 figures)
Box of Gors $24.75 (10 figures)

10 plastic chariots for $189.50
Even cheaper if you can recycle Gors/Ungors infantry out of your old Beasts of Chaos army.

Why bother just use the Wargames Factory Chariots (Ponies are evil and deserve strength 5 for their pure chaotic madness) and head swap the crew with this the same army is for $80! I'm just not a fan of the Boars anyway.....

Lunahound for the Centigor I'd suggest using the smaller Wargames Factory horses as the Marauder torso on a stander Horse just doesn't go as the necks just to wide.

Shaggoth=Ghorgon problem solved!

To be honest the book is actually great for background and I like the army list it seems to along with the Skaven and Lizardmen buck the power avalanche creep which began with the High Elves and reached its nadir in the Daemon's book. It seems to be a fun list with a lot of interesting options.....

I, too am pissed about GW banishing Dragon Ogres to the Land of Abandoned Miniatures.

...When are they gonna institute a buy-back program for the stuff they make unplayable?

Commissar Molotov wrote:I, too am pissed about GW banishing Dragon Ogres to the Land of Abandoned Miniatures.

...When are they gonna institute a buy-back program for the stuff they make unplayable?

Their excuse will be that you should go "start" WoC (hence they get more money... woo)

I've been doing more reading of this book, there's more in here than meets the eye. Just about everything hits like a truck, and it's not as slow as I first imagined. Definitely an improvement on the nonsense that was the old book.

Buttlerthepug wrote:

Commissar Molotov wrote:I, too am pissed about GW banishing Dragon Ogres to the Land of Abandoned Miniatures.

...When are they gonna institute a buy-back program for the stuff they make unplayable?

Their excuse will be that you should go "start" WoC (hence they get more money... woo)

Aw, yeah! Forgot about them being in the WoC list - come back from the Land of Abandoned Miniatures, my four-legged Ogres!

Dragon ogres get banished to the land of forgotten minis every other codex.. Nothing new

I have to say it plays well though.

RanTheCid wrote:What WG may be getting at is the apparent required use of Rare monsters with complicated rules in the new Beasts book.

Used to be an army build would start with 2-4 big blocks of troops, then be enhanced with a few special and rare unit choices. This new book is the opposite - fill out the special and rare slots, then take enough core to stay legal.

Exactly what was happening in 40k in 4th edition. Almost every army ran their absolute minimum cost 2 Troops. Then comes 5th edition and all of a sudden Troops are required for most victory conditions. Well, it certainly changed things so that there are a lot more troops out there. Generally now you'll see around 2 slot of the force organization chart being almost or completely empty as people load up on their HQ, enough Troops to take all the objectives, and then whatever special/complicated/new hotness is needed to maximize the army.

Didn't really expand army composition any...just changed it to force something different. I'm sure 8th edition could introduce enough changes to force people to take blocks of Core by one method or another. Maybe by making them better, maybe (probably) by just making them necessary.

But it's not a failing of the Beastmen book that it doesn't lend itself to giant blocks of Core doing the majority of the heavy lifting. If you consider that a failure, then it's a failure of WHFB as a whole. There is almost no incentive to do it and quite a few disincentives (for example, the Jabberwocky landing by your giant unit forcing it to flee).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as a side note...I thought it was a cool armybook. I have to say I fall into the demographic of the people who like big flashy cool models. I'd much rather run a Jabberslythe or Cyghor or Doomwheel or Hellpit or Hellcannon or Dragon or Greater Daemon than a unit of efficient, workhorse infantry. So much cooler. I'd prefer to see them on the table, to use them, to wander by a game and see them in action. All the big blocks of infantry look pretty much the same to me, regardless of the army. But show me a Dragon tangling with a Hellcannon or a Hellpit fighting a Cyghor and that just seems cool.

sirisaacnuton wrote:And as a side note...I thought it was a cool armybook. I have to say I fall into the demographic of the people who like big flashy cool models. I'd much rather run a Jabberslythe or Cyghor or Doomwheel or Hellpit or Hellcannon or Dragon or Greater Daemon than a unit of efficient, workhorse infantry. So much cooler. I'd prefer to see them on the table, to use them, to wander by a game and see them in action. All the big blocks of infantry look pretty much the same to me, regardless of the army. But show me a Dragon tangling with a Hellcannon or a Hellpit fighting a Cyghor and that just seems cool.

I just got the army book yesterday, and I like it

I also agree with this quote... I love a cool / unique / full of awesomeness model or unit as much as the next guy. This isn't going to change with GW! But I agree they'll probably make more incentives to take some troops, in addition to the awesome monsters.

I don't see why you can't have both

Cheers,
Steve / RiTides

For me, this book is hard to love (My defense against terror is Frenzy? Gah!), but also hard not to love (My general hits harder than a thirster, and costs half as much?)

So as a guy who has looked into fantasy repeatedly but never played, the beastmen are definitely catching my eye. I like the Razorgor for some reason. If I went out and purchased one as the first mini to mess with, will I likely ever use it if I end up building a Beastmen army afterward? Also, can anyone suggest which of the basic infantry I should get a box of, or even which ones I definitely shouldn't?

Ok Dakka, I'll admit this at last: every time that I see "beasts" I unconsciously add an 'r' and do a double-take. This has been happening for years, but it's gotten ridiculous in the last couple weeks

@ Canny - Razorgor are monstrous in game, I'm sure you would be happy running 1+ in all of your lists. Personally I like them strapped to chariots, as they get primal fury, better Ld, US5, a save, impacts, etc, etc.

- Salvage

If you want to get away cheap with chariots, gotta buy the GW piggies for $15, and just grab some balsa wood and buil your own chariots. scar the wood up and your good to go. check ebay for some screaming bell wheels(the bell comes with 3 sets of wheels) and your total expense for 9 chariots is gonna be $60 for pigs, like $10 for the chariots themselves and maybe another $60 for the wheels.