Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was just wondering to what people think about them , since they seem quite popular with the new models and such.

They are rather cheap and can fly ,
are there ANY reason to not have some?

What are some roles they are good for?

Our fast attack slot is pretty slim pickings right now. It is either raveners or gargoyles. Yes they are good. They make great MC hunters with a wound on a 6 to HIT. They can be great flying cover for larger things, and they are great at contesting objectives later in the game with their 12 inch move.

Give them Toxin and Adrenals, and they're an 8 pt model who can handle it's own in an assault, threaten tanks on the charge, and shoot stuff reasonably well. Quite quick to get them where you need them as well.

Right now my main concern is if their speed will move them too far away from my Synapse web, but that can be helped if you take the Parasite to babysit them.

My 2 cents:
Positive:
-Cheap at 6 points
-Wings, give a 24" threat range
-Blinding venom

Negative:
-6+ does very little in the way of saves
-Blast template will decimate them

Roles:
-Throw Away: Being cheap you can tar pit, them shoot and assault, hoping to do some damage.
-Deep Strike: Drop them somewhere behind the enemy and shoot at anything that is in range, to get close to a soft target and take our some fire support
-Hide the Parasite of Mortrex: With all those wounds, the parasite can do its damage in assault and not be killed first turn.
-Screen: Being hard to hide, use them as a screen for your valuables.


Hope that helps Luna

I cant wait to take my parasite! Its gonna be great. Probably my favorite SC in the new dex.

thekerrick wrote:I cant wait to take my parasite! Its gonna be great. Probably my favorite SC in the new dex.

Same, im currently making one out of an old metal gargoyle I have, I cant wait to have it finished and use him.

@ squig_herder:

Threat range for gargoyles is only 18". Note they no longer have fleet of wing. Although if you consider fleshborer shots as a 'threat' (I do not, but i usually play against MEQ) then it does increase to 24".

the only true 24" threat range we have for assaults are raveners. Which i like with 2x scything talons, but rending claws make them able to fight back against walkers.

Squig_herder wrote:

thekerrick wrote:I cant wait to take my parasite! Its gonna be great. Probably my favorite SC in the new dex.

Same, im currently making one out of an old metal gargoyle I have, I cant wait to have it finished and use him.

Mind if I ask how you are making him? Im taking an old warrior I have, gonna bend the tail around with heat. Add some wings and remove his legs and add talons.

What do you mean FA is slim!


Between harpies and Spore mines I can't find room for the gargoyles, let alone disappointing ravagers.

I think they are absolutely fantastic. If you can work out giving them some sort of cover save they are even more fantastic.

People should put more of them in their armies.

I haven't used them in game yet. But they seem promising. With the adrenals and toxin, they can do some real damage.

The models are just great. I finished my first 10 yesterday and I had to go get another box today because the kits is so good.

They're not troops so don't score, but otherwise seem to be excellent 'flying gaunts'.

They look absolutely essential if you're fielding any other bigger fliers, as a spot of mobile cover.

been able to fly does that make them good at hugging LOS terrains and maybe jump on light armored targets? ( ork comes to mind )

Just built 10 of them last night and building the others soon.

On paper they're flying Termagants which can be used to block LOS for a flying Hive Tyrant to give a cover save. They add some fire power too and can tie up units with their large numbers.

I think they are remarkably good now - either as a cheap, fast horde to tie up the enemy, or with upgrades to make them really dangerous in assault. I don't think they are a must have - there are simply too many other valuable things in the tyranid codex - but they will rarely be a bad choice. As long as you can support them with Synapse - either something fast to keep up with them, or having them flit between Synapse nodes (flying away from your core group and into range of your Spore-podding Zoanthropes or Trygon Prime, for example.)

Not just synapse. I'm thinking that giving them FNP via a Tervigon with catalyst would help them make much more of an impact.

I am torn on the Parasite guy. Str 6 flyer is cool, but an IC with T4 and no power weapon is a little worrisome to me. The ripper generating function is really cool, but I gotta worry that he and the gargoyls are going to either take a battle cannon in the face and evaporate, or they will assault a unit with a hidden fist, kill 7-9 of them, then the Parasite gets one shot by the fist.
I dunno... I really want to see how he plays out, but 160 points seems like a lot for an IC model that doesn't ignore armor saves.

Yeah, I initially dismissed the Parasite due to his lack of combat ability compared to pretty much everything else in the codex. (And I mean... 4 attacks at WS5, S6, Rending certainly isn't bad, just not as overwhelming as the output of a Tyrant, or even the much cheaper Warrior Prime.)

But with a closer look, I realized that fast-moving Synapse is a pretty big value in it's own right, especially when it can be hidden in swarms of gargoyles or the like. A Flyrant can get shot down, but if you have enough bodies flying at them, it won't be easy to remove the Parasite from them. And as flyers, your mobility should make sure you choose what you hit, and when you hit a squad with a PF, you can make sure the Parasite is on the other side of the combat. (Assuming anything even survives the assault.) Add in his ability to discourage outflanking, and I think the guy has his place - just as a more tactical addition to the army than the standard powerhouses. I wouldn't take him with just any army, but I think there can be some approaches that can make good use of him.

Honestly, my biggest concern is that all his special abilities can just be a liability in kill-point missions, since I don't think he can choose to turn off his ripper-generating powers? That would be the one downside I'd be concerned about.

That's a good point too. Racking up 2-5 Kps in rippers whose brains turn off when he dies would be frustrating.

I dunno, I could see him rocking out in one particular list or maybe two. A very neat idea, but I wouldn't bet the farm just yet. I don't play nids, so it is just curiosity, but I am looking forward to some battle reports about him.

Yu don't have to place rippers if you don't have the models so he is ok in Kill points.

sexiest_hero wrote:Yu don't have to place rippers if you don't have the models so he is ok in Kill points.

Excellent catch!

That said, you can't know before the battle if it'll be KP or not. Putting your spare Rippers back in the case and denying all knowledge of their existence once the objective is confirmed to be KP will get you shunned as the WAAC guy, and possibly kicked out of tourneys. So it's a case of committing to not using this rule during army list building, and taking that decision on the chest when you need more small units to contest objectives and nine units Outflank you.

There's an argument for taking a large Skyslasher unit as well as a Parasite/Gargoyle blob, though I've no idea how I'll convert winged Rippers to fit in my Dino theme... WFB/WQ bat wings don't meet my anal retentive anatomical purity test for Pterosaurs

I was looking at the Parasite today, & thinking along the same lines, that he had his place. I don't think I'd want to run him unless I had a couple of biggish Gargoyle units in the army, but at 180 pts for 30 Gargoyles, that's not entirely out of the question. 2 units means he can join the 2nd one, if the one he's in gets devastated.

The Parasite would be 50% more Awesome if he allowed one unit of Gargoyles to be Troops.

Yeah, that's a big problem -- he's potentially a disadvantage in KP missions, and he doesn't help that much in objective missions 'cos his Gargoyle escort aren't troops!

Of course, since he's an IC rather than an MC, there's nothing to stop you putting him in a unit with (say) Swarmlord and 2-3 Hive Guard, and flying off to assault something that's trying to avoid the slower bigger guys. Problem is, he's not *that* great in assault by himself. :(

Still -- I figure if you're going to take Gargoyles anyway, he's worth considering. I plan to test him, anyway, since I am making one...

Ian Sturrock wrote:
Of course, since he's an IC rather than an MC, there's nothing to stop you putting him in a unit with (say) Swarmlord and 2-3 Hive Guard, and flying off to assault something that's trying to avoid the slower bigger guys. Problem is, he's not *that* great in assault by himself. :(

That's why you go with a Flyrant and some Shrikes.

GG

generalgrog wrote:

Ian Sturrock wrote:
Of course, since he's an IC rather than an MC, there's nothing to stop you putting him in a unit with (say) Swarmlord and 2-3 Hive Guard, and flying off to assault something that's trying to avoid the slower bigger guys. Problem is, he's not *that* great in assault by himself. :(

That's why you go with a Flyrant and some Shrikes.

Sure - but I see his biggest strength is bringing hidden synapse where it can't normally go, so he doesn't add much to those guys. You can also run them instead of him to provide your flying Synapse, but they are a lot pricier and potentially easier to remove if the enemy is focused on doing so.

I see his value in an army where you are using several large units of gargoyles as your speed assault force. You can't claim objectives, but if your troops don't feature quick-moving hormagaunts, and instead have Tervigons/gaunts (to camp home objectives/lumber towards opposing ones) and outflanking Genestealers (to snag backfield objectives), and you've got tank-busting taking care of in Elites and Heavy Support, then a fast-moving line of gargoyles led by this guy definitely can serve as your shock force.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Yeah, that's a big problem -- he's potentially a disadvantage in KP missions, and he doesn't help that much in objective missions 'cos his Gargoyle escort aren't troops!

Of course, since he's an IC rather than an MC, there's nothing to stop you putting him in a unit with (say) Swarmlord and 2-3 Hive Guard, and flying off to assault something that's trying to avoid the slower bigger guys. Problem is, he's not *that* great in assault by himself. :(

Still -- I figure if you're going to take Gargoyles anyway, he's worth considering. I plan to test him, anyway, since I am making one...

He could also join shrikes, is it correct?

Ya he can join shrikes.

Aduro wrote:Give them Toxin and Adrenals, and they're an 8 pt model who can handle it's own in an assault, threaten tanks on the charge, and shoot stuff reasonably well. Quite quick to get them where you need them as well.

Right now my main concern is if their speed will move them too far away from my Synapse web, but that can be helped if you take the Parasite to babysit them.

This.

The big strength of the Gargoyle brood, in my point of view, is that they're one of the few cheap-as-dirt units that can actually offer a cover screen to all the MCs. If you've got a few Tervigons with T-fexes sitting across the table (or marching up it), a unit of Catalyst-buffed Gargs is stupidly hard and blocks anything but a tank-shocking assault vehicle from CC with the big baddies.