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I'm having troubles with my leman russ =/

I want to see if I have this right:

When stationary I may fire all guns including the ordnance,

However upon moving up to 6 inches i may fire one weapon and the ordnance.

Some have told me the above is correct, others that I may only fire the turret and 1 other gun all the time meaning I for example may fire the battle cannon and lascannon when still and when I move 6 inches.

Who is correct, you decide!



Also, I checked a few pages back and couldn't find anything on this so thats why I am making a topic =]

IIRC you can always fire the battle cannon and then another weapon when it comes down to if you moved where as normally you could only do one main weapon

Chec Eu wrote:others that I may only fire the turret and 1 other gun all the time meaning I for example may fire the battle cannon and lascannon when still and when I move 6 inches.

Given the actual rule, I have no idea where anyone would get this idea from.

It can fire the turret in addition to any other weapons it could normally fire.

Thanks guys =]

So, in summary:

Stationary: Fires everything -Pewpewpew-
Combat Speed: Can Fire the Turret Weapon, one additional Main Weapon and all Defensive Weapons
Cruising Speed: May not fire anything.

Gwar! wrote:So, in summary:

Stationary: Fires everything -Pewpewpew-
Combat Speed: Can Fire the Turret Weapon, one additional Main Weapon and all Defensive Weapons
Cruising Speed: May not fire anything.

Almost!

Stationary: Fires everything -pewpewpew-
Combat Speed: Can fire the turret weapon, one additional main weapon and all defensive weapons
Cruising Speed: MAY ONLY MOVE 6'' PLUS 1D6. May not fire anything

Gwar! got served!

Alpharius wrote:Gwar! got served!

No, I didn't. While he is correct they the Leman Russ can only move 6"+D6 when moving at Cruising Speed, it is still Cruising Speed.

Furthermore, my Summary was of weapons firing, not movement distances. As such, I did not feel it necessary to add the fact that a Leman Russ has a different rule for moving Cruising speed.

Gwar! got served and then tried to lawyer his way out of it!

So, Gwar! got served with a side of fries!

Alpharius wrote:Gwar! got served and then tried to lawyer his way out of it!

So, Gwar! got served with a side of fries!

I, of course, kid! I kid!

Oops , let me see if i got this right ><
Stationary: Fires everything -pewpewpew-
Combat Speed: Can fire the turret weapon, one additional main weapon and all defensive weapons ( so it can fire the battle cannon? addition main weapon i assume are the 3 sponson weapons? )
Cruising Speed: MAY ONLY MOVE 6'' PLUS 1D6. May not fire anything

And it can fire its turret weapon when shaken or stunned, as the only requirement is that it moves or stays stationary which it will always do one of those, and it over rules the main rule book. Now I have never played like that but I do threaten it against my gaming groups ork players who try to deffrolla my tanks

LunaHound wrote: ( so it can fire the battle cannon? addition main weapon i assume are the 3 sponson weapons? )

It means it can fire the Turret Weapon as well as One Additional weapon that is S5 or above and any weapons that are S4 or less, even if the Turret Weapon is Ordnance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Volkov wrote:And it can fire its turret weapon when shaken or stunned, as the only requirement is that it moves or stays stationary which it will always do one of those, and it over rules the main rule book. Now I have never played like that but I do threaten it against my gaming groups ork players who try to deffrolla my tanks

No, it can't actually.

No, it can't actually.

Are you not the RAW king? The codex explicitly states I may fire the turret weapon if the tank moved or remained stationary in addition to any other weapon that may NORMALLY be fired. No other conditions or restrictions. When shaken no guns may normally be fired but behold the lumbering behemoth rule, and as the rulebook says the codex always takes precedence

Volkov wrote:Are you not the RAW king? The codex explicitly states I may fire the turret weapon if the tank moved or remained stationary in addition to any other weapon that may NORMALLY be fired. No other conditions or restrictions. When shaken no guns may normally be fired but behold the lumbering behemoth rule, and as the rulebook says the codex always takes precedence

Yes, in addition to any other weapon that can normally be fired. If you cannot fire any weapons, you cannot fire any in addition to it.

Volkov wrote:as the rulebook says the codex always takes precedence

Actually, other than the summary pages, nowhere does it say this in the Rulebook. In fact, the Codex does not always overrule the Rulebook. For a good example, read the Sweeping Advance rules.

I dont think lumbering behemoth works the same way as Machine Spirits on Land Raiders Volkov , but i could be wrong though.

Yes, in addition to any other weapon that can normally be fired. If you cannot fire any weapons, you cannot fire any in addition to it.

1+0=1

Actually, other than the summary pages, nowhere does it say this in the Rulebook. In fact, the Codex does not always overrule the Rulebook. For a good example, read the Sweeping Advance rules.

I know for a fact it says it. I don't have it on me right now but it is in one of the first few pages. I was just reading it the other night. I read it like the bible

I dont think lumbering behemoth works the same way as Machine Spirits on Land Raiders Volkov , but i could be wrong though.

Again I don't play this way but now I am trying to make a point about RAI versus RAW. People usually dismiss RAI because 'how do we know what they really meant to say?' In alot of cases yes I agree but this one, Bjorn the fel handeds invuln save, and tyrant guard's shieldwall are blatantly obvious what was intended, but people rule lawyer the pants out of it. This was simply poor wording by GW, I know a first, but the avenue of abuse is left open because of it

Volkov - no, what you have done is taken a sentence *out of context* and think it magically applies to everything. One of the lines you are thinking of is Smoke Launchers, where it states, in effect, that *where the codex has its OWN rule* the codex overrides. It is NOT a blanket "codex>rulebook" - again, read and *understand* sweeping advance, and what your interpretation would mean.

Secondly, it does not override Shaken/Stunned because it does not say it does, or even imply it. You have made an incredibly incorrect assumption that "may not fire any weapons" is equivalent to "0 weapons may be fired" - hint, one is an undefined, non-mathematical term, the other is the one you made up.

Volkov - no, what you have done is taken a sentence *out of context* and think it magically applies to everything. One of the lines you are thinking of is Smoke Launchers, where it states, in effect, that *where the codex has its OWN rule* the codex overrides. It is NOT a blanket "codex>rulebook" - again, read and *understand* sweeping advance, and what your interpretation would mean.

Well the smoke launcher section says something like as normal the codex over rides the rules book

Secondly, it does not override Shaken/Stunned because it does not say it does, or even imply it. You have made an incredibly incorrect assumption that "may not fire any weapons" is equivalent to "0 weapons may be fired" - hint, one is an undefined, non-mathematical term, the other is the one you made up.

Well it hinges on whether the codex trumps the rule book, if you don't believe it does than you are correct but once I get a rule book I will find the passage that says it does

No, it doesnt say that. It states when the codex has different rules to those presented in the BRB, the codex takes precedence. This is directly related to differeing versions of smoke launchers - the older versions for example give you "glancing" and not "obscured"

As I said, you took it massively out of context, and even ignored that the example of the rule I gave you directly contradicts what you stated. And then repeated it despite not having a rulebook in front of you....

Hint: you are not correct, and have taken one statement about limited circumstances under which the codex always overrides the rulebook (when the same item exists in both but with different rules in the codex) massively out of context.

Finally - what you are grasping for is "specific > general" - which is how the entire rulebook works. As I said, consider Sweeping Advance and how your incorrect assumption would effect it. Perhaps do this before posting again....

Volkov wrote:

Yes, in addition to any other weapon that can normally be fired. If you cannot fire any weapons, you cannot fire any in addition to it.

1+0=1

Congrats, you know basic math.

However, 1+0 != 1+Nothing.

"Cannot fire" is not the same as "Can fire no weapons".

The rule does not allow you to fire the turret and an additional(none defensive weapon) weapon when it moved at combat speed. Thats were the special rule comes in for the LR, it means the russ may fire the ordnance weapon and defensive weapons if it moved...because if it didnt have this rule it would only be allowed to fire the ordnance and no defensive weapons. as stated in the rule book "ordnance weapons require the attention of all gunners, so no other weapons may be fired that turn(not even defensivve weapons)..." this also allows you to fire everything if you did not move because even if you didnt move and decided to fire the ordnance, thats all you could fire(of course this being if it didnt have the lumbering behemoth rule)

No that is wrong. "in addition to any other weapon it is allowed to fire" means it moves 6" and fires 1 5+ Strength weapon and any Defensive weapons plus the turret. Regardless of whether the turret is Ordnance or not.

Kazerkinelite wrote:The rule does not allow you to fire the turret and an additional(none defensive weapon) weapon when it moved at combat speed.

No, that's exactly what the rule allows you to do.

Lumbering Behemoth allows the LR to fire the turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it could normally fire.

If a vehicle moves at Combat Speed, it can normally fire one regular weapon, and all defensive weapons. It can then, courtesy of Lumbering Behemoth, fire its turret weapon in addition to those other weapons.

ahhh ok I stand corrected...re read the rule a couple times slower...well this actaully makes the LR worth movving in annhilation.

I never understood how it was ever that hard to understand.

Some people grasp things, some don't. And sometimes, you read something the wrong way to start off with, and it just sticks in your head no matter how many times you re-read it.

Like the 'This does constitute a Massacre' from the Sweeping Advance rules last edition... So many people unconsciously inserted a 'not' into that sentence on a first read, which spawned a whole host of rules debates over a very simple and clearly written rule.

the reason its confusing is because the rules say for ordnance that you can only fire that one weapon(cant even fire defensive) so I figured the rule ment that you were allowed to fire defensive weapons as well as the ordnance. Rules are mis interpreted all the time. a lot of 40k rules are not very specfic and leave a lot of room for debate. But as I said I stand corrected.

Moving 6 inches you can shoot 2 weapons, so your BC and lascannon, or whatever combo, plus defensive weapons. Russes rock!