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Im not even getting into the numerous reasons why i hate Ted Haggard, the lying stinking hypocrite, but here is the thing, his wife has just released a book and I sat and watched the dippy bint on MSN..

She, like he, claims that he is "cured" of gay!

Wonderful news!

The thing that really offends me, is that they keep saying things like "we ALL struggle with our sexuality sometimes"

First of all, there isnt anything wrong with being gay, and secondly, he basically tries to make out that we ALL secretly want to bang men and take heroin, as if this will somehow legitamize his awful actions.

A small part of me even feels sorry for this fella, as he is OBVIOUSLY gay, but he is basically going to try and live a lie for his whole life.. i imagine it would be like me leaving my hot young girlfriend and going and living with a hairy arsed biker and pretending i was enjoying it?

So, lets not even get into the whole background story of this poisonous little toad, do you believe that sexual preference is a misnomer? That you cannot actually choose your sexuality? Its not a preference, its an orientation, and your stuck with it?

And if you disagree with me, and think we have some say in the matter, do you know how on earth these people go about "curing" their sexuality?

The mind boggles....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and if anyone hasnt heard of him..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard

Nope because homosexuality is simply not a choice. You fancy who you fancy.

If someone is adamant it is a choice, then they are clearly a bisexual with a preference for the opposite sex.

You can't cure something when there is nothing wrong with them.

This is going to turn into an anti-religious thread real fast, because the minute someone(like me) tries to explain why homosexuality is a life choice, and not a birth defect. The hand ringers and bed wetters will come a crawlin'.

And yes people that have been gay, have repented and turned their lives around and become strait. But people like matty can't let them be, with their choice. And will continually label them as "secretly" gay or will say that they were never gay to begin with. Homosexuality is a form of sex addiction and is very hard for people to "give it up" that is why there is such a high "relapse" rate, not because they have a birth defect. I know this because I have dealt with a few "ex" gays in my church, and much like heroin addicts, they have a real hard time in giving up the lifestyle.

There is no way to "win" this debate.

Cue... bed wetters and hand wringers.

GG

*bad humor mode on*
Sure you can,show him those mighty D-s and he'll be cured.
*bad humor mode off*

generalgrog wrote:This is going to turn into an anti-religious thread real fast, because the minute someone(like me) tries to explain why homosexuality is a life choice, and not a birth defect. The hand ringers and bed wetters will come a crawlin'.

And yes people that have been gay, have repented and turned their lives around and become strait. But people like matty can't let them be, with their choice. And will continually label them as "secretly" gay or will say that they were never gay to begin with. Homosexuality is a form of sex addiction and is very hard for people to "give it up" that is why there is such a high "relapse" rate, not because they have a birth defect. I know this because I have dealt with a few "ex" gays in my church, and much like heroin addicts, they have a real hard time in giving up the lifestyle.

There is no way to "win" this debate.

Cue... bed wetters and hand wringers.

GG

NOw now matey. Already slinging names and derision on those who might disagree with you isn't a good start to the thread.

First of all, prove to me that it is a choice, and that those who deny their nature aren't just doing so due to soceital expectations?

mattyrm wrote:
First of all, there isnt anything wrong with being gay, and secondly, he basically tries to make out that we ALL secretly want to bang men and take heroin

Yeah, RIIIIIIGHT Mattyrm, and Santa Claus doesn't exist. Pthhhbt.

Seriously though, what the hell does it matter if sexuality is a choice? I don't understand how having a choice means you have a disease. I decided to choose lemonade over Sprite today at work, does that mean I need to be cured? Is it wrong that I chose lemonade? How hell does it matter either way? How the hell does it affect ANYONE?

Other than the dude who got screwed out of the last bottle of lemonade behind me, but I ran out of analogies by this time.

EDIT: Minced some words in there. God when is work going to be over...

Sexuality is a funny thing. I'll simply say that people can be conditioned to do just about anything. This is doubly true if sexuality itself is primarily conditioned.

GG, im not a liberal at all, and im most certainly not gay, i just want some good arguments for it. You know, a "cure"

I was always under the impression that it was a genetic thing, for example, my mates dog is aggresively homosexual, and he frequently humps peoples dogs in a most amusing manner, but he ignores bitches.

Same has been said for almost every animal on earth, i know that a zoo here has two gay flamingos as well..

Anyway, i think its genetic due to this piece of simple yet effective evidence. Why would a bird "choose" to be gay? I dont think they have the mental capacity do they?

Also, the main reason i think this, is because i absolutely love women, and i dont think i have a "choice" in the matter!

generalgrog wrote:This is going to turn into an anti-religious thread real fast, because the minute someone(like me) tries to explain why homosexuality is a life choice, and not a birth defect. The hand ringers and bed wetters will come a crawlin'.

And yes people that have been gay, have repented and turned their lives around and become strait. But people like matty can't let them be, with their choice. And will continually label them as "secretly" gay or will say that they were never gay to begin with. Homosexuality is a form of sex addiction and is very hard for people to "give it up" that is why there is such a high "relapse" rate, not because they have a birth defect. I know this because I have dealt with a few "ex" gays in my church, and much like heroin addicts, they have a real hard time in giving up the lifestyle.

There is no way to "win" this debate.

Cue... bed wetters and hand wringers.

GG

You'd have better results if you didn't attempt to paint your opposition before they even appear. I'll just put places where your phrase needs improvement in bold.

Oh, and incidentally, you should not speak from a stance of certainty with respect to the nature of something which is currently nebulous. Unless you also want to classify heterosexuality as a form of addiction, in which case by all means continue.

Edit: Missed two.

Also GG, regards your last answer mate, if homosexuality is an addiction, then isnt heterosexuality? How is it different?

mattyrm wrote:Also GG, regards your last answer mate, if homosexuality is an addiction, then isnt heterosexuality? How is it different?

What about porn addiction? What about pedophelia? What about necrophila? What about people who have sex with animals? Are those choices or birth defects?

(And call this a pre hand wringer strike-I'm not equating pedos,necros,and animal sex to homosexuals)

dogma feel free to ^^^^^^^^^ highlight there.

And your question "is heterosexuality an addiction" is a logical fallacy because you might as well ask me if eating or breathing were addictions.

GG

There is no 'cure' for 'gay', as there is no 'cure' for 'straight'.

There is also no evidence showing that people are not inclined to their own sexual preferences. Whether someone thinks that everyone is bisexual, or that everyone is straight, means a sum total of jak-gak. There is no clear evidence on this, so in essence, the entire conversation is a massive opinion mosh-pit.

I do however, hold a great amount of disdain for the skewed opinions that always show up in these discussions. If you like tacos, eat freaking tacos, if you like hotdogs, by all means, like those hotdogs. There are obvious cultural boundaries for all of this, but within common understanding, banging a goat, is a great way to get kicked in the face by said goat.

Keep fething that chicken...

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
First of all, prove to me that it is a choice, and that those who deny their nature aren't just doing so due to soceital expectations?

Prove to me that it "isn't" a choice. See how that works?

All I will say is that there are people that have made the choice to leave the lifestyle, and I'm not going to denegrate there decision by saying that they are "secretly gay".

GG

GG your arguments offend me deeply. Please refrain from using terms like birth defect when talking about homosexuality.
I'm quite hard to offend but I am having supreme difficulty from saying something unpleasant to you, based on that post.

First of all...

GG wrote:What about porn addiction? What about pedophelia? What about necrophila? What about people who have sex with animals? Are those choices or birth defects?

This was not an answer to the question.

(And call this a pre hand wringer strike-I'm not equating pedos,necros,and animal sex to homosexuals)

And this was an excuse for not answering said question...

generalgrog wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
First of all, prove to me that it is a choice, and that those who deny their nature aren't just doing so due to soceital expectations?

Prove to me that it "isn't" a choice. See how that works?

All I will say is that there are people that have made the choice to leave the lifestyle, and I'm not going to denegrate there decision by saying that they are "secretly gay".

GG

But you will degenerate those that 'choose' not to do so?

Da Boss wrote:GG your arguments offend me deeply. Please refrain from using terms like birth defect .

I don't get it. I'm saying that it is NOT a birth defect. I don't see how that is an offensive statement.

GG

And that is a real tragedy.

Wrexasaur wrote:But you will degenerate those that 'choose' not to do so?

When did I denigrate any homosexual in my post? I simply have disdain for the enablers out there who tell them they are born gay, when they are not.

GG

As someone who's not 100% straight myself (closer to about 55%), I say it's not a choice, because who in their right mind would choose to be discriminated against and treated as a second class citizen who can not marry the person they love?

As I obviously consider bisexuality/homosexuality a genetic thing, I don't think it can be 'cured', anymore than having red hair can be 'cured' (disguised yes, but not cured.)

GG, 500 posts in, i think i can get along with anyone, im not trying to single you out here, but im not denegrating the "ex gays" on purpose, its just i think my argument is valid because its how i feel!

Do you understand that? I mean, were all adults here, i dont feel like im at high-school so i have to act as manly as possible. I am 100% heterosexual, when i look at a man, i dont WANT to shag him, and isnt that right there logical proof that you do not choose?

I mean, i presume the way we look at a hot chick when they bend over to tie their shoes, is how a gay guy gets over a good looking bloke?

Im not seeing a choice here!

But you can fake it right? I mean, gak, im comfortable enough with my sexuality to admit, i might be capable of spanking Elton John off if the money was high enough, but i would have to grit my teeth to get the cash!

Dont you think thats logical? The reason i dont hate gays, is because i know from my own feelings, that there really doesnt seem to be much choice in the matter. I just like women, but i dont CHOOSE to like women.

I am closing this to avoid the already starting forest fire that will result in an avalanche of name calling warning, wailing and gnashing of teeth. If someone objects they can PM anyone but me.