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31 years ago today,Feb 2 1979, Simon John Ritchie AKA Sid Vicious,infamous bass player for the punk band The Sex Pistols,was found dead from an apparent drug overdose.
Love or hate him,Vicious was an integral part of early punk music ,RIP Sid.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
Sid Vicious was a mere hanger on. The Sex Pistols were an integral part of early punk music, indisputably, but Glen Matlock was the guy who played bass on Never Mind the Bollocks... and that's their only studio album.
Viicious was just a sad drug and homicide sideshow
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Sid Vicious was a mere hanger on. The Sex Pistols were an integral part of early punk music, indisputably, but Glen Matlock was the guy who played bass on Never Mind the Bollocks... and that's their only studio album.
Viicious was just a sad drug and homicide sideshow
To the extent that punk is just music, then Sid Vicious was just a mediocre bass player. To the extent that punk was part of a greater youth movement, in which the lifestyles of the band were as important as their music, Sid Vicious was pretty important.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Sid Vicious was a mere hanger on. The Sex Pistols were an integral part of early punk music, indisputably, but Glen Matlock was the guy who played bass on Never Mind the Bollocks... and that's their only studio album.
Viicious was just a sad drug and homicide sideshow
IMO Vicious was more than a hanger on in relation to early punk,before he replaced Matlock as the basssist for the Sex Pistols,he had already been a member of The Flowers of Romance (with co-founder of the Clash Keith Levene),played drums for Siouxsie & the Banshees and was considered for the position of lead singer of the Damned over Dave Vanian.
Malcolm McLaren stated on several occasions that,had he met Sid before hiring Johnny Rotten as the singer of the Sex Pistols,the posistion of front man would have gone to Vicious.
You are correct that the later part of his life did become quite a mess,I personaly atribute this to his relationship with Nancy Spungen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/03 22:34:06
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
2010/02/03 23:46:11
Subject: Re: 31st aniversery of Sid Vicious passing.
Instrumental virtuosity has absolutely nothing to do with Punk Rock. Kurt Cobain wasn't a particularly gifted musician in any conventional sense - that he had a massive impact on popular culture is beyond doubt. The same is true of Sid Vicious.
Instrumental virtuosity has absolutely nothing to do with Punk Rock. Kurt Cobain wasn't a particularly gifted musician in any conventional sense - that he had a massive impact on popular culture is beyond doubt. The same is true of Sid Vicious.
That's not a fair comparison. It was Kurt Cobain's music which drove the impact he had on popular culture, mainly in his songwriting.
Sid Vicous' impact is much more akin to the likes of paris hilton.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/04 09:32:29
whatwhat wrote:That's not a fair comparison. It was Kurt Cobain's music which drove the impact he had on popular culture, mainly in his songwriting.
Which was amateurish and consisted of florid 6th-form poetry, set against primitive dynamic shifts and devices lifted wholesale from The Pixies. He could just about barely play guitar. The fact that he shot himself has had more impact on popular culture than his music ever did. The whole 'tragic figure' thing is relevant.
whatwhat wrote:Sid Vicous' impact is much more akin to the likes of paris hilton.
I can go along with that, although Vicious' stance with regard to the mainstream of society was more oppositional, ostensibly.
whatwhat wrote:That's not a fair comparison. It was Kurt Cobain's music which drove the impact he had on popular culture, mainly in his songwriting.
Which was amateurish and consisted of florid 6th-form poetry, set against primitive dynamic shifts and devices lifted wholesale from The Pixies. He could just about barely play guitar. The fact that he shot himself has had more impact on popular culture than his music ever did. The whole 'tragic figure' thing is relevant.
No, he had a profound impact on rock music and Nirvana pretty much broke through an entire sub genre (grunge) singlehandedly. He bears hardly any comparison to your point about Sid Vicious.
I suppose that is true if you consider technical ability to be the be all and end all of music. In reality it’s got surprising little to do with good song writing. The whole reason Punk began to flourish was directly in response to fact that rock music at the time was becoming far too populated with overblown, pompus and overly technical nonsense. Simple, powerful songs that didn't overstay their welcome where a breath of fresh air.
Simple well written songs are 99% of the time far more effective than long noodling pretentious drivel.
"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!"
LuciusAR wrote:I suppose that is true if you consider technical ability to be the be all and end all of music. In reality it’s got surprising little to do with good song writing. The whole reason Punk began to flourish was directly in response to fact that rock music at the time was becoming far too populated with overblown, pompus and overly technical nonsense. Simple, powerful songs that didn't overstay their welcome where a breath of fresh air.
Simple well written songs are 99% of the time far more effective than long noodling pretentious drivel.
Which actually fits the Cobain comparison quite well, as the arrival of Nirvana managed to kill of hair metal.
Not that Sid Vicious should be lauded for his song writing, but the Sex Pistols in comparison to Nirvana.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/04 16:39:17
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2010/02/04 23:25:54
Subject: Re: 31st aniversery of Sid Vicious passing.
They say that if you have an infinite amount of monkeys, typing on an infinite amount of typewriters, for an infinite amount of time, eventually they'll produce the complete works of Shakespeare.
The same is true of music. Put three monkeys in a room with some instruments for about an hour and you'll get the complete works of Nirvana.
...
It's not so much that you don't have to be an instrumental virtuoso to be culturally relevant (again, see Paris Hilton), but Sid wasn't even a musician (much like Paris Hilton). He wanted to be (and she released an album too, didn't she?), but he had no musical ability at all. We're not comparing him to Eddie Van Halen (whose first album came out roughly the same time as Never Mind the Bollocks), but at all. It's no secret that he was never plugged in when they played live, because he was god awful. If you actually listen to that album, while it's a very stripped down sound, the rest of the band could actually play their instruments (including Glen).
He could play a bit, Lemmy tried to teach him apparently... Punk Rock wasn't really about being able to play though - it was more about the look and the attitude. Take Siouxsie and The Banshees for example - they started the band and played a few gigs before they learned to play their instruments!
Albatross wrote:He could play a bit, Lemmy tried to teach him apparently... Punk Rock wasn't really about being able to play though - it was more about the look and the attitude. Take Siouxsie and The Banshees for example - they started the band and played a few gigs before they learned to play their instruments!
The same was true of The Germs,when they started doing shows none of them really knew how to play,yet because of Darby Crashs' OTT antics they would pack venues...he had enough attitude to overshadow the bands lack of musical talent.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
I've always liked Husker Du alot,don't know if I'd call them the first real punk band though,I've always thought of Iggy Pop& The Stooges and The Ramones as the first real punk bands.
Automatically Appended Next Post: HAHA. Ninja'd by Albatross.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/07 22:32:59
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
Green Blow Fly wrote:Huskerdoo had a much larger impact on music and much more commercial success than hte Stooges. Bob Mould is a genius.
G
I'll agree with you on the point that Bob Mould is fething briliant , however must disagree concerning Husker Du having a larger impact than the Stooges Or the Ramones,and as far a comercial succes..well that's never been the main objective of Punk anyway.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
Johnny Rotten is advertising butter?!!..Really??!!
I mean,I can forgive Iggy doing car insurance comercials,he's what 60 something now and has taken enough drugs to kill a herd of elephants,so he may not even be aware he's doing it....
But Johnny Rotten pedleing butter...unforgivable.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Holy Gak...I hadn't seen this until now,shame on you Mr. Lydon,may the ghost of Sid Vicious,Darby Crash&Joey,Johnny and DeeDee Ramone haunt you for the rest of your life,while beating you over the head with beer bottles.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/08 01:07:57
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
2010/02/08 01:12:52
Subject: Re: 31st aniversery of Sid Vicious passing.
Grrr! It pisses me off that these capitalist advertising wankshafts try to sell our culture back to us, as if we wouldn't notice how fake it was! Pricks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/08 01:14:09
