Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In the Space Marine Codex, it says Terminator Armor was made originally for withstanding being in the center of a plasma generator.

Why is plasma one of the best weapons against Terminators?

Plasma does well against TDA because GW couldn't give TDA a 1+ save......

And Tactical Dreadnaught Armor is not the same as the exo-armor used to work in plasma cores.
Its a descendant of it, and maybe the need for weapons and better movement has lowered its resilience against plasma.

And Tactical Dreadnaught Armor is not the same as the exo-armor used to work in plasma cores.
Its a descendant of it, and maybe the need for weapons and better movement has lowered its resilience against plasma

It specifically says "It is even said that Terminator armour can withstand the titanic energies at a plasma generator's core, and that this was in fact the armour's original purpose."

Index astartes IV page 44 /Terminators would explain the order of creation those armor types went.

First, there was power armor and exo armor.
Then a program to invent a stronger type of armor was started and the terminator armor was its result.

So terminator armor is built having maximum protection in mind.
But maybe some neccessities like fighting in CC reduced its resilience a bit. Working in generator rooms or in space will not
lead to highly flexible and mobile suits when time isn't an issue, in HtH youre dead if you can't react.
IMO the perfect protection would make its wielder as mobile as a statue.....

TDA is a compromise of protection and mobility.
It seems there was no evolution of different variants of TDA and it is the same since the heresy.

Just because it can withstand the latent energies around a plasma generator does not mean it could withstand a direct plamsa blast

What about resistance to flame weapons,if it can stay in plasma reactor where temperature is millions of degrees is it immune to them.Promethium reaches super hot temperatures and even with them why can't a terminator be immune to them.

Damage sustained during battle could have caused minor cracks in the armor allowing the flames inside. Just because an armor save is passed doesn't mean the armor is undamaged just the warrior inside is alright.

Perhaps because the description was written when a model in Termie armor needed a 5+ on 2d6 to save against plasma-class weapons?

Or not... Shas'o Dorian probably has the best "realistic" melting of fluff and rules.

Vale,

JohnS

becuase fluff isn't a game.

cygnnus wrote:Perhaps because the description was written when a model in Termie armor needed a 5+ on 2d6 to save against plasma-class weapons?

Or not... Shas'o Dorian probably has the best "realistic" melting of fluff and rules.

Vale,

JohnS

Thanks I try sometimes its pretty hard to come up with a theoretical situation where it could happen but I give credit for this one to Dan Abnett for what happens on Herodor :

Mewiththeface wrote:becuase fluff isn't a game.

+1


If things were as strong as their fluff suggest, Greater Daemons would have straight 10's for their statlines and your average Space Marines would all be as strong as some of the stronger named characters (if not stronger).

Pretty much everyone would be stronger.

Their descriptions are never perfect.

Kind of like how an Ork can be decapitated, and they can just sew it back on and he's fine. Why are Ork boys so easy to kill if the codex says that?

Well if i remember correctly when a model is out of wounds it is out of the game. In the fluff was of saying it the ork or marine might not be dead but just to damaged to carry on. Say the ork lost his head, he might not be dead but just geting dragged to a emergency pain boy tent for surgery, And maybe the terminators are dead from the flames but the flames hit vital parts of the suit and shut down the extra strength part of the armor needed to move in the armor. A plasma shot might not have killed the terminator but really just stopped him from continuing.

Thermal resistance is often not effective against kinetic energy effects. Terminator armour is the balance of the two.

a plasma generator is easily dispersed energy.

A plasma rifle fires a bolt of high-powered energy.

It is the same forcepower, but you can disperse a plasma generators power.
Also, I'd agree with 1hadq. it would be different armour for a plasma generator.

it would be different terminator armour for plasma generators then for war.

In sense, terminator armour is excelelnent for repeling bullets plasma generator armour can withstand highfied plasma.

And, anyway you get a 1/3 chance of saving without an armour save. thats your ability of not dieing.

Anbd finally, GW don't give a shotsworth how good terminator armour is.

Just because it can withstand the latent energies around a plasma generator does not mean it could withstand a direct plamsa blast

Well, from a physics point the answer is very simple.
It has to do with density, that is density of the plasma.

A weapon that shoots a plasma charge would tend to concentrate its density by powerful and very local magnetic fields whereas a gigantic plasma reactor would have a lesser density, being non weapons grade and all.

The temperature of the plasma is in fact totally irrelevant to the damage that it does, you could easily hold your hand inside a field of several million degrees hot plasma and not feel a thing if its density, the amount of ions per given volume, wasnt right as well.


If you really want to discuss whacked up GW 40K technologies then try he melta guns, that´s a nightmare.

Pyriel- wrote:If you really want to discuss whacked up GW 40K technologies then try he melta guns, that´s a nightmare.

Jeez, don't encourage anyone...

Cheesepie wrote:Well if i remember correctly when a model is out of wounds it is out of the game. In the fluff was of saying it the ork or marine might not be dead but just to damaged to carry on. Say the ork lost his head, he might not be dead but just geting dragged to a emergency pain boy tent for surgery, And maybe the terminators are dead from the flames but the flames hit vital parts of the suit and shut down the extra strength part of the armor needed to move in the armor. A plasma shot might not have killed the terminator but really just stopped him from continuing.

I assumed the Apothecaries/Painboys fixed most of the "casualties" after a battle.



Also, I agree that plasma weapons are more concentrated, allowing it to penetrate the armor. A plasma generator would probably be more of AP 3 in gaming terms.

What about resistance,it says that Crux Terminatus protects them from power weapon?
I think that Crux protects them from one or several hits,after it the Terminator is vulnerable to a power weapon.

The crux is just a fluff tale, a mystic thing that nobody knows about. Legend tells there is a tiny piece of the emperors own armour incorporated into every terminator "captain" suit and that grants mystical protection.

So what about all the mundane terminator suits that dont have this alledged piece of metal in their cruxes?

Pyriel- wrote:

Just because it can withstand the latent energies around a plasma generator does not mean it could withstand a direct plamsa blast

Well, from a physics point the answer is very simple.
It has to do with density, that is density of the plasma.

A weapon that shoots a plasma charge would tend to concentrate its density by powerful and very local magnetic fields whereas a gigantic plasma reactor would have a lesser density, being non weapons grade and all.

The temperature of the plasma is in fact totally irrelevant to the damage that it does, you could easily hold your hand inside a field of several million degrees hot plasma and not feel a thing if its density, the amount of ions per given volume, wasnt right as well.


If you really want to discuss whacked up GW 40K technologies then try he melta guns, that´s a nightmare.

More to the point, isn't the glow from neon lights from plasma? I'm sure if a glass tube can handle plasma, then thick sheets of armor should be able to! And, yes, the whole melta gun idea has some repa lssies.

Vale,

JohnS

More to the point, isn't the glow from neon lights from plasma? I'm sure if a glass tube can handle plasma, then thick sheets of armor should be able to!

Yes, but it isn't that "extreme". Its like comparing a fire cracker to a frag grenade. Think of a plasma cutter used in industry. It can easily cut through inches of steel like butter.

A neon light is simply filled with argon gas, or whatever gas there may be. Its ionized, and its electrons break freak from the nucleus. In a plasma cutter, those gases are forced through a tiny hole. When the gas is forced through the hole, there is a negatively charged electrode at the end. This touches the metal it is cutting, creating a circuit. So think of a blow dart gun, compared to blowing down a commercial water pipe. Except the blow dart is traveling at 20k fps, and 30,000 F

Slightly off-topic, but wasn't Terminator Armour developed for use in tight spaces where Dreadnoughts couldn't be deployed?

I think I have read this somewhere, and it would make sense to be honest.

Also, back on topic, fluff, is a , I mean, why can't an ork have a 6+ inv. save or something?

*Puts on over-dramatic voice* Damn you, Games Workshop! Why can't you be consistent?!

Terminator Armor was used first for warriors to fit in tighter areas where escape for the enemy would be cancelled out. Power Armored brothers would leave gaps, so Terminator Armor was basically a giant blockade.

And the name TDA came from the fact that its armor platers were bigger and heavier than power armor, making it a giant bull-rushing tank like a dreadnought.

In the CSM codex it states that TDA was designed for boarding operations aboard star ships.

it could be a different kind of plasma. Eldar plasma stuff isn't ap 2 but also doesn't get hot. I always assumed imperial plasma was better than eldar plasma because our "military" plasma tech is using the logic that more damage is better so they can get hot or maybe we haven't perfected the tech. I assume the plasma generator maybe "old tech" plasma so it may be a more stable plasma like eldar plasma and thus less threatning to Termies.

Imperial Plasma is like that because it is a basic design and used only for sergeants who'd risk damage for profit.

Anyways. The idea it can survive in a Plasma Generator is understandable. I mean, NOTHING can surive an emersion in straight plasma, though the heat offset from the plasma generator, even inside but not at the core where the Plasma is located, can be handled by something like Terminator armor. But they aren't gonna stick their fingers in plasma. Not even a Dark Angel is that stupid.

What purpose does teleportation technology serve a guy in a plasma reactor. Also, if you are going to talk fluff, TDA has many stylistic variations; from one milennia to the next, between chapters, from the Heresy to Current era, etc. I seem to remember that older fluff placed the origin of TDA as mining armor for deep space mining operations. The Melta and Rhino had similar origins. Although, this sort of thing is intentional; the Imperium has repurposed many things and the population doesn't know the origins. So it makes it more believable if we, the players/readers can't be certain either. Half the draw of the 40k setting is the ambiguity.

Plasma kills TDA because something has to counter it. Otherwise you have to depend on Melta, Las, and withering hail of fire (make 'em roll da dice boyz) to stop them.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:Terminator Armor was used first for warriors to fit in tighter areas where escape for the enemy would be cancelled out. Power Armored brothers would leave gaps, so Terminator Armor was basically a giant blockade.

And the name TDA came from the fact that its armor platers were bigger and heavier than power armor, making it a giant bull-rushing tank like a dreadnought.

Yes. It was easier to design a wider version of power armour than a wall.

So much fluff is such nonsense, isn't it?

Why settle for a plain old wall when you could have a mobile death spitting wall of screaming bald headed death?