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Is it just me or do you not love the boring old BattleCannon? People seem quick to point out that it won't hurt a Land Raider or knock out Terminators but it does everything else so well and even against those "bad" target, it can still be a threat.

With the rise of many T4 multi-wound creatures, I think its becoming an even better weapon, able to knock out entire squads of Warriors or Nobz with a little luck. Throw in a range that lets it hit almost anything on the board and you've got a terrific generalist weapon.

Yeah, but people are idiots, particularly on this board, and routinely think nothing of perjuring themselves with hyperbole (yes, this sentence is self-referential ). Battlecannons are not likely to hurt a Land Raider, but they can. Likewise Terminators are wounded on a 2+ and only have one wound. If you get five under the template it's not unreasonable to assume one might buy the farm.

Its real advantage, particularly with regard to the ones on Defilers, is their range. Demolisher Cannon range is too short, but Battlecannon range is just long enough, particularly if you're used to playing on tables larger than 4'x4'.

Personally, I prefer the Basilisk. Slightly cheaper, indirect fire, and that extra point of strength might actually help against AV 14.
To me, the shorter the range, the more armor I want on my tanks. That's why I run demolishers instead of Medusas. When my range is Ridiculous either way, I'll take the way that can get AVBrickwall.

I've become a fan of the battlecannon, 72" means I'm usually getting several shots off. Lots of things just die if the template hits em, that's always simple. It kills vehicles too, the extra die helps counter the str 8. I could bitch about scatter, but it is what it is. I still take a defiler. Well i got 3 kits, the first conversion turned out good, just been too busy to make another. I'm going to get started this weekend, I wanna try running 2 of these beasts.

yeah, i love them. I got off a Battle cannon shot from a Russ right in the middle of 3 SM attack bikes. it took out all 3. ever since i've always got at least a couple of Russes in a list. but do you think i could ever pull off that kind of luck again...

LRBT are awesome, excellent value and still the king Love LRDs as well

Battle cannons hate me. I think I've killed less than 10 enemy models with them.

That said, they're great on paper, and hopefully I'll start running them again.

I don't know about anyone else, but I kinda wish the battlecannon on the defiler was turned back into indirect fire. I like it as is, but I miss the indirect fun and with the new LoS rules it could be a wonderful thing.

Battle cannons rock!
First turn wipe out shrike and his 10 man tactical squad.

I'm a fan of the battle cannon it can do almost anything (besides destroy raiders and kill terminators which is why you run a demolisher and anti-tank stuff)

I'm never particularly intimidated by battle cannons. The scatter, mediocre str (for an anti-tank gun) and lack of AP1 means that it's not quite good enough at killing enemy tanks, and the proliferation of cover saves means you're rarely killing too many infantry with them, as long as they're spread out a bit.

Annabelle, your defiler did more damage in CC the other day than with its battlecannon!

Personally I avoid any of the ordnance tanks just due to their complete unreliability. When I worked for "the man" the store Imperial Fist army had 3 vindicators in it, and half the time they missed and the other half of the time there is the 4+ cover save everyone and their mom has. What really sealed it is my friend play with the forgeworld armoured company and just the sheer amount of inaccuracy on a regular basis was absurd. The best tank in the guard dex is never used nor has a GW model anymore, which is sad.

What's with IFs and vindicators? Almost every IF army has three vindis in it, and I don't recall anywhere in the fluff that they have some special connection to that tank.

I think there used to be an old rule with them that gave it something more. Or it was the whole "seigemasters" thing.

willydstyle wrote:What's with IFs and vindicators? Almost every IF army has three vindis in it, and I don't recall anywhere in the fluff that they have some special connection to that tank.

I'm sure its the siege thing and the Vindicator has alwayw been tied to the Iron Warriors and for the most part anything IW can be flipped over to be IF as well.

I'm surprised that everyone talks about how bad the accuracy is. The numbers were ran in another thread and with the new -scatter based on BS, the overall accuracy ends up to be roughly the same. The big difference between direct fire and ordnance is that a missed direct fire = nothing whereas a missed ordnance has a chance of still hurting something on the board.

minigun762 wrote:

willydstyle wrote:What's with IFs and vindicators? Almost every IF army has three vindis in it, and I don't recall anywhere in the fluff that they have some special connection to that tank.

I'm sure its the siege thing and the Vindicator has alwayw been tied to the Iron Warriors and for the most part anything IW can be flipped over to be IF as well.

I'm surprised that everyone talks about how bad the accuracy is. The numbers were ran in another thread and with the new -scatter based on BS, the overall accuracy ends up to be roughly the same. The big difference between direct fire and ordnance is that a missed direct fire = nothing whereas a missed ordnance has a chance of still hurting something on the board.

I think because it's only one shot.

Yeah but thats why you take multiple Vindicators.
1 shot from 1 source could scatter and be useless.
2 or 3 shots from 2 or 3 sources have a much better chance of knocking out the whole squad and with ordnance, you only need a little bit of luck to do alot of damage.

This is an advantage of the Battlecannon over Demolisher because you have 3x the range to start firing at and more shots = better chance to land on target.

As for the Demolisher, I think it does a good job of threatening AV14. With the reroll to penetrate and S10, you're looking at one tough weapon and Land Raiders are big big targets.

I always have loved the BC. Many a game have I just shot one shot, turn 1, killed an entire Tac Squad and then just waited for my opponent to come to me because I already had more KPs than he did.

if you aim it at squads with more squads around it your more likely to cause damage.

I dunno how points efficient he is, but I'm building a list featuring two Russes...

An Executioner and a Standard Russ with Pask driving.

That Russ will bust open Land Raiders without too much difficulty.

A land raider with pask?

He means Leman Russ.

Fix'd

S9 still isn't great against AV14.

Why not put Pask in the Executioner? That way, you'll get more use out of the BS4 (more blasts) as well as giving 3 shots the +1 penetration bonus instead of just one.

I'd say that Pask would be a waste in anything besides a Vanquisher for anti-tank purposes.
Actually the other vehicle I could see him in is an Exterminator with a Lascannon. Now that is a fine vehicle for busting transports and walkers right open.

I dunno, a lascannon that rolls 2d6 and picks the highest isnt TOO too bad a weapon to use against a LandRaider. (thats effectively what the battlecannon is when you use Pask in a standard LR) HARDLY a "waste" in my opinion. Pretty effective against armour in fact.

Good against infantry as well when the Russ is kitted out with Heavy Bolters and a Heavy Stubber. Large blast STR 8, 9 STR 5 AP4, and 3 STR 4 shots at BS 4...not too shabby, definatly not a waste.

That "lascannon" has about a 65% chance to hit (counting favorable scatters) has about a 30% chance to pen, and a 50% chance to do meaningful damage (immobilized or blow'd up) So you're looking at about a 10% chance to do meaningful damage to a land raider.

willydstyle wrote:That "lascannon" has about a 65% chance to hit (counting favorable scatters) has about a 30% chance to pen, and a 50% chance to do meaningful damage (immobilized or blow'd up) So you're looking at about a 10% chance to do meaningful damage to a land raider.

Well, since the tank is first and foremost an anti-infantry vehicle, I'd say that mathhammering there is largely irrelevant to the value of the tank in the first place.

Just the fact that it CAN engage a Land Raider is sort of a bonus anyway.

Irdiumstern wrote:Personally, I prefer the Basilisk. Slightly cheaper, indirect fire, and that extra point of strength might actually help against AV 14.
To me, the shorter the range, the more armor I want on my tanks. That's why I run demolishers instead of Medusas. When my range is Ridiculous either way, I'll take the way that can get AVBrickwall.

I agree with the basilisk. Used in conjunction with AV12 spam or together with russes, the bassie and it's earthshaker cannon will not be picked off that easily and is offensively more flexible than the russ and it's battle cannon. If the environment is more mech or in a tourney setting, I up the ante and add a manticore, which has a good chance of ripping open anyone foolish enough to clump his vehicles together. A HS selection comprising a LRBT (or LR executioner), bassie, and manticore is a strong and well balanced mix against all kinds of opponents, able to fire on the move if needed, and able to reach anything on the board, even out of LOS and behind cover. Supported by an infantry firebase as well as a mech/airborne component, you have essentially the very successful "leafblower" list, which is a proven winner.

Deadshane1 wrote:

willydstyle wrote:That "lascannon" has about a 65% chance to hit (counting favorable scatters) has about a 30% chance to pen, and a 50% chance to do meaningful damage (immobilized or blow'd up) So you're looking at about a 10% chance to do meaningful damage to a land raider.

Well, since the tank is first and foremost an anti-infantry vehicle, I'd say that mathhammering there is largely irrelevant to the value of the tank in the first place.

Just the fact that it CAN engage a Land Raider is sort of a bonus anyway.

Then why take pask instead of putting those 50 points into something that CAN blow up a land raider? I realise that most full units that are capable of dealing with a land raider will cost more than 50 points, but my point still stands that putting pask in a LR is not an efficient way to make the LR better at killing AV14.