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Before I get stuck in, I'll say that I only started playing in 5th ed and don't know if this has happened before.


So, Tyrannofex and Tervigon. They bring out the rules for them... but no GW models? Forcing us to convert our own? Now, I'm sure it's easy to convert a Carnie into a T-rex or a Tervigon, but it's always gonna look like a Carnie without extensive greenstuffing. If they want these creatures to have a unique look, they need to bring out the models, no? Just seems really weird to bring out rules but no models. Especially since they've happily manufacted Trygon/Mawloc and Venomthrope models. Very iffy.
Of course, the model is probably going to be more expensive than the Carnie conversion anyway. Go figure.

Discuss.

So, Tyrannofex and Tervigon. They bring out the rules for them... but no GW models! Allowing us to convert our own! Finally I get a chance to have models that represent my vision of an army, so these creatures can have a unique look, Without looking like any other jonny-come-latley's Carnifex! Just seems really great to bring out rules without new models. Especially since they've happily manufacted Trygon/Mawloc and Venomthrope models. Spectacular move to support the hobby GW!

they have done this kinda thing before, and i liked it then as i do now.

i made a lucious the eternal back before he had a model but was in the codex. came out great and people always asked about it. made me sad when the actual model came out, i wasnt the only one in my gamming group that had a lucious anymore.

another plus, greenstuff is fun to play with.

But for people new to the hobby, who don't have the confidence or skills to convert their own, surely a GW model would allow them to use the unit without having to resort to counts as?
I appreciate your point of view (although I feel skip expressed it spitefully) but I feel a counterarguement is necessary.

There was a day when Wave Serpents – a linchpin unit of the Eldar army – didn’t exist. It’s aggravating but its par for the course. I see it as pretty much no different than giving Imperial Guard platoons and veterans the ability to have meltaguns but providing none in the kits.

Nethertwist wrote:But for people new to the hobby, who don't have the confidence or skills to convert their own, surely a GW model would allow them to use the unit without having to resort to counts as?
I appreciate your point of view (although I feel skip expressed it spitefully) but I feel a counterarguement is necessary.

I attempted to use no more incisive language than you did in the original post. Forgive me if I grow weary of these threads. I believe this is the fifth one I've seen bemoaning the lack of a model.

GW not making models gives the older hobbiest something to do to make their army that much more their own.

the new hobbiest gets a chance to test their skills and get some motivation to do their own modeling. its one of the best things in this game, modeling and painting your army to be your own.

its a hobby, best thing to kill time in the world.

there are walkthroughs and pointers to build pretty much anything on the internet. take a stab at it and see if its your thing.

if not you can always wait for the model release but it has been known to take a very very long time in some cases

As I said in the original post, I didn't realise this had happened before. I used the search feature to find any threads like this and couldn't find them.
I often get flippant when writing about things like this and I end up feeling like an idiot after; especially when I realise people aren't really that bothered about it.
Thanks for the comments. My apologies.

Nethertwist wrote:Before I get stuck in, I'll say that I only started playing in 5th ed and don't know if this has happened before.


So, Tyrannofex and Tervigon. They bring out the rules for them... but no GW models? Forcing us to...

...put up with the crap other people proxy
...have no idea how big something ought to be
...put up with the crap other people convert
...wonder about base sizes and the legality of making anything
...have LOS questions for profiles

Conversions can be ok, when they are mods or composite models, but that's not what we are talking about here, we are talking about complete black holes, never before seen, undocumented units.

Lets also be honest here, the Tyranid codex is a massive failure on this level for models, it's not just the Tyrannofex and Tervigon:

Flying Rippers
Shrikes
Alphawarriors
Harpy
Parasite of Mortrex
Doom of Malanti
Swarmlord
Mycetic Spore
Ymgarl Genestealers
Strangleweb Gaunts

12 units? This isn't like having a transport problem, like a drop pod, or a Waveserpent, or having to improvise a single HQ model. This is like 1/3rd of the units in the codex and weapon options for bunches more, bonesword warriors? Lashwhips? Stranglewebs? Hive carriers? Rupture Cannon. There has never been a codex this bad. It's atrocious.

If the Eldar codex was like this we wouldn't have models for 1/2 the aspects, a couple HQs and some other units as well as missing a model for the brightlance and fusion gun too.

The Tyranid release was woefully insufficient. I am with ya Nethertwist!

incarna wrote:There was a day when Wave Serpents – a linchpin unit of the Eldar army – didn’t exist. It’s aggravating but its par for the course. I see it as pretty much no different than giving Imperial Guard platoons and veterans the ability to have meltaguns but providing none in the kits.

Do you remember the conversion guide in White Dwarf that used a plastic spoon?

I'm glad you're here because you pitch a much better argument than me.

The Swarmlord is easy to convert! All you need to do is buy 4 Hive Tyrant kits...

I appreciate conversion, but Augustus brings up a good point. One or two characters or a big critter is alright, IMO - maybe they want to see the demand for it before they begin the expensive process of making molds and casting them, thus not ending up with millions of kits that nobody cares about. But seriously, a third of the army? That's a bit of a problem, there.

Locclo wrote:The Swarmlord is easy to convert! All you need to do is buy 4 Hive Tyrant kits...

Indeed, there are some bits, but, wow a $200 HQ (and one would still have to change the left and right hands). Pretty spicy!

I like conversion to, but not creation. If I wanted to sculpt my own models, well, why would I play/pay GW?

This leaves me feeling less like they wanted to leave space for conversions and player room and more like they did half the job or let the rules guys go crazy. Since I don't like the writing style of the Tyranid book that makes it a tough sell for me.

Also in practice a lot of the conversions I have seen are all over the place. Having played drop pods for years now, the size and dimensions of them make a big difference, especially for objective contest and such. Mycetic spore size is going to be an identical issue but no one knows what they are suppose to be...

Subjective imagery and preference aside, there is a mechanical case to be made here. Something is technically absent and wrong from the tyranid codex.

(I remember Iron Warriors Defilers where people were putting a stove pipe gun arm on a chaos dreadnought body, and this was common for about a year, then the Massive signature Defiler came out...)

Augustus wrote:
There has never been a codex this bad.

I agree with your post, for the most part, but the bit I've quoted I can't agree with. 3rd edition orks were terrible at release. No:
Kommandos
Lootas
Skarboyz
Killa Kanz
Burna Boyz
Rokkit Trukks, Trakks
Big Mek
Painboss
Meganobs
Mega Armour Warboss
Nazdreg
Wazzdakka
Snikrot
Zagstrukk
Battlewagon
Flash Gitz

Some of these models came out after a few years, some weren't released until a decade later. It was very annoying to have people tell me that as an ork player I was supposed to love converting. But it is par for the course with GW. I suppose it has advantages, but if you'd like to buy from a company that always releases a model for every unit, I suggest Privateer Press.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

incarna wrote:There was a day when Wave Serpents – a linchpin unit of the Eldar army – didn’t exist. It’s aggravating but its par for the course. I see it as pretty much no different than giving Imperial Guard platoons and veterans the ability to have meltaguns but providing none in the kits.

Do you remember the conversion guide in White Dwarf that used a plastic spoon?

Yes, I use to use replacement dryer knobs from the hardware store for mine! Those were the days!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Boss wrote:

Augustus wrote:
There has never been a codex this bad.

I agree with your post, for the most part, but the bit I've quoted I can't agree with. 3rd edition orks were terrible at release...

Da Boss, you have me there! Orks, well they kind of get a pass from me, because historically they seem to have always been the scrtachbuilders army. I was very pleased to see the battlewagon finally come out!

You're right that's worse.

I would hope you agree, that they should have gotten better since then at least?

Howard A Treesong wrote:

incarna wrote:There was a day when Wave Serpents – a linchpin unit of the Eldar army – didn’t exist. It’s aggravating but its par for the course. I see it as pretty much no different than giving Imperial Guard platoons and veterans the ability to have meltaguns but providing none in the kits.

Do you remember the conversion guide in White Dwarf that used a plastic spoon?

Don't just remember, I did it! Used MTG cards to make the framework for the extension of the back too. (back before I even knew what plasticard was!)

Does anyone have any information from GW to state that they have no plans to release any of these miniatures, or are they remaining stoically silent on the matter?

fail

Not nearly that bad, as many things on this list either had models, or got them pretty quick. Ork models have kept evolving with the fluff, and new versions coming out.


Kommandos
Bloodaxes and Bloodaxe Kommandos were around long before the current models

Lootas
As in 'Deffskull Lootas'. Lots of various orks with kustom kombi weapons, or very orky versions of imperials.

Skarboyz
Old Goff klan models were very good for skarboyz, and appropriate based on the earlier rules.

Killa Kanz
The old ork dread could be made short with one weapon, one arm, or tall with a middle body piece that let you add another arm and weapon. I still use 9 of the smaller version as kanz.

Burna Boyz
Several old ork models with burners, then the metal burners, before the new plastics

Rokkit Trukks, Trakks
Tracks, and Buggies have been around forever. I have the all lead models. At best, a weapons swap on the pintel to turn them into rockets. Gorka Morka added the 'official' rocket buggy. Trucks came out with Gorka Morka. Originally, the orks just had battlewagons, and it was actually one of the first plastic kits.

Big Mek
Lots of Mek models

Painboss
Lots of pain boy models

Meganobs
I have two versions of mega armor nobs before the current ones. Quite weedy. Some of them look more like power armor, which is appropriate since they date back to when there were no mega armor nobz.

Mega Armour Warboss
Ceratainly nothing like the current G Thrakka model. Old Ghazgull was a bit small, and with a sword.

Nazdreg
I forget when Nazdreg got his original model. Was a Bad Moon Warboss that was just fine for him before that.

Wazzdakka
Correct, we all converted him.

Snikrot
Zagstrukk
Fairly new characters actually, compared to some of the others. The new models really are amazing, but there were always bosses for Kommandos and Stormboyz that would work.

Battlewagon
Original plastic model out years and years ago

Flash Gitz
Flash Gitz date way back. Orks always had a 'pirate' theme to many of their models.

I suppose the idea could be to encourage the people outside of the GW monolith to provide inspiration for a possible release model.

Besides tyranids by their very nature don't produce a standard template design for their organisms and so you could never truly produce a single model to represent any of the organisms in a specific fleet.

mikhaila wrote:
Battlewagon
Original plastic model out years and years ago

Many years in fact. They ceased production of the plastic Battlewagon around the time 2nd edition came out, that's why you almost never saw one fielded after the Rogue Trader days, 2nd edition armies were bike heavy. You had to wait until the very last days of 2nd edition to get the weedy trukks and traks, and they were only taken from the Gorkamorka game. They only re-released the battlewagon, what, last year?! Hopeless. The Space Marines had to go without a Land Raider for about 10 years too.

Makes you wonder who makes these decisions. "Oh we don't need to release the major vehicles for these popular armies this decade, that can't make us any money can it?"

Um guys there are the tentacle stealer heads that can be used for the yarmgarl stealers

sonofruss wrote:Um guys there are the tentacle stealer heads that can be used for the yarmgarl stealers

And there are Forge-world Sky slasher swarms.

You can't use forgeworld as an answer to this post... you'd have us paying twice the going rate for a model that's made of glassy resin and shatters if you look at it the wrong way? :-S

Plus forge world doesn't half cover the sheer amount missed from the codex.

A point I would like to reiterate is that without greenstuffing most of the model, every Tyranid MC is going to look like a converted carnifex. They could have at least had art that was a bit clearer on the size and shape of the missing models, as a clue.

sonofruss wrote:Um guys there are the tentacle stealer heads that can be used for the yarmgarl stealers

How do you know thats what they are suppose to look like?

Maybe that's just a cosmetic change for genestealers.

See the point here is there is not a box set you can buy, or even a conversion kit, or a picture of the model or anything.

While that's a reasonable solution, it's not a model for a Ymgarl Stealer.

Besides that's one of 12 missing units!