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This might be a little OP, or it may be just stupid.

but here goes.

Armour would, become less effective if it's hunked and damaged.

I'll give three examples, all will be AP1.

a marine with an armour save of 3+.
Would get no armour save.
A terminator with a 2+/5+
would get an invulnerable save of 6.
a terminator with a 2+/3+
would get a 4+ invulnerable save.

So, if you have an AP, Minus that from the units armour save.

I.e. AP1 counts as 6 Sv Points, against a Sv of 2+ and 5+, which is 7 AP points. (5 for the 2+, 2 for the 5+.)

Thoughts?

PS:
If you don't like the idea, that's okay, but don't go on a tangent.

Think its just better to keep simple things simple. The games already take long enough, and just takes longer the more calculations you have to do midgame.
This would make units that only have a weak invul save even more fragile if they lose that save to any random ork slugga.
(according to your example, the 3++ terminator would go down to 4++... so I'm guessing AP would affect invul saves)
So a 5+ harlequin wouldn't get a save at all against most weapons?

Just curious, do you even like this game at all? Seems like you more or less want to change everything about it

thanks for putting it without making a stupid comment. commended.

I do like this game, I just thought it might be different.

Trust me, any game I play, I try to change things and make new rules.

It's the most I get out of most board/tabletop games.

Fair enough.

However, did I understand correctly that AP affects invul saves? I think thats harsh on the units that only have a invul save (i.e. daemons) but its a bad one (5+ etc).

Duly noted.

I think we can safely remove damaged to invulnerable save

or maybe halve it?

Ya I would say either have it not affect the inv save or maybe have it only effect high inv saves like 2++ etc.

The system is good as it gets IMO.

If this is to reflect damaged armour should it not be used in turns after the first save?

Back in third edition weapons didn't have an AP, they had a save modifier. The first Necron Gauss Flayers had, I think, -2 Modifier. So Marines had to make a 5+ save.

It was pointless and made the game longer to play.

The method you seem to be suggesting is about the same. The 5th edition armour saves are much, much smoother. I'd rather not see a return to the old days.

Miraclefish wrote:Back in third edition weapons didn't have an AP, they had a save modifier. The first Necron Gauss Flayers had, I think, -2 Modifier. So Marines had to make a 5+ save.

It was pointless and made the game longer to play.

The method you seem to be suggesting is about the same. The 5th edition armour saves are much, much smoother. I'd rather not see a return to the old days.

That was 2nd edition. Third's saves is the same as 4th and 5th. Considering that they have not changed it in 3 editions I don't forsee a change anytime soon. It also makes me think it is a pretty good system.

Here we go again!

Ok, I learnt something.

Sounds good.

I just thought it might be a bit more realistic.

I love it as a home game.

Locking at user request then.