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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 13:58:52
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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When I first set down to create my setting in 1993, I wrangled with various decisions on what I would like to see done as a gamer. The first two questions I dealt with was, "What underlying set of rules should I use?" and "How would I incorporate my two favorite hobbies into a unified whole?" After having played well over 30 different rule systems, I decided that I would use the Hero System as the core rules. It's a lot easier to use a generic, universal rule system then to attempt to write up a new system from scratch and having to balance everything from a role playing game and a wargame perspective. Hero System already has the rules for running mass combat and for role playing, so it was a natural choice for me to choose it for licensing. With a flexible rule system, I wanted players to have total control over what they would put into their games. By using a system, like Hero System, the players could design their own special characters and units to be used both in a role playing game and a wargame because the system, itself, is a flexible toolkit while being completely balanced.
My time spent playing all these other games exposed me to the various design philosophies that exist in both roleplaying and in wargames. The underlying theme, I've found, is that in most systems the game designer has certain biases that affect their entire design process. I'm no different, in this aspect, but I like to be more open and transparent. This affected my choice of rules. The most important thing, for me, was the ability to have fun, while I was able to create anything I wanted and have it work as intended the first time around without having to push through errata and various fixes.
Some say that world design is difficult and others say it isn't. My opinion on the matter is that, for me, it's only as hard as you make it out to be. Inceptum Terminus has been in development for a very long time and my co-author and I spent numerous days discussing our favorite things about gaming in general. The topics ranged from what genres we liked to what tropes we liked or didn't like. We took these favorite things to combine them into unified whole that was entirely unique. Inceptum Terminus uses the following genres: cyberpunk, biopunk, superheroes, westerns, fantasy, science fiction, post apocalypse, and others. These are things that I, and my co-author, really enjoy.
The next set of questions that I'm currently dealing with is how to support the community, as a game designer. This covers a lot of ground that ranges from miniatures to scenarios/adventures. One of things that my co-author and I agree on is that we don't like the idea of being dedicated to releasing stuff for only faction and ignoring the rest. The other major thing is we don't like power creep with the release of each new or updated army. I'd like to know your thoughts regarding paper miniatures, regular miniatures, and other forms of support for games that you feel is necessary to build a thriving community. I'd like to take the time to thank you for your participation in this discussion ahead of time.
EDIT:
I added a link to the Hero System as requested and the following is the back cover information concerning the setting.
I bid you welcome to the Corporate States of America and to the futureā¦
The world is a grim, dark place with no hope for anyone and their lives hold little value. People are held in perpetual slavery by the Corporate States. Like cattle, they are controlled and used to feed the massive corporate machine. Some Corporate States give the illusion of freedom while others proudly display their cruelty as a badge of honor. For the past 200 years, the people have toiled under brutal conditions and survived. Now humanity stands on the precipice of a new era; bolstered with voices of the past to throw off their shackles and to experience the birthright of freedom they have long been denied.
Inceptum Terminus: Chronicles of the New Confederation is a complete setting for use with Hero System 6th Edition and requires Hero System Volume 1 & 2 to play.
Inceptum Terminus: Chronicles of the New Confederation provides:
A fully detailed setting complete with a detailed history and timeline.
Nineteen new professional templates and four magickal templates.
Over 200 new pieces of equipment that includes armor, weapons, cybernetics, netrunning gear, and drugs.
Sixteen new vehicles and rules for customizing them with a vast array of weapons, armor, and equipment.
Detailed rules for cyberspace and the various networks in the Corporate States.
Ten superhero teams comprised of sixty two ready to play as player characters or used as npcs in a campaign.
A campaign section for running games in the Inceptum Terminus universe.
This is the first press release for the game.
After a worldwide coordinated terrorist attack against the United States, Russian Confederation, and their allies, the federal and state governments in the United States collapse in the chaos that followed. Out of the ashes, the corporations take control and form the Corporate States of America. Each mega-corp controls a vast territory of land, people, and manufacturing facilities within their borders. Nine mega-corps control the government, land, and people of the former United States. They rule their corporate states for one hundred forty-seven years with an iron fist. A new era dawns when from the shadows, a small group of people began to throw off the shackles of domination using the rallying cries that spark off a revolution four hundred years ago.
The world of Inceptum Terminus is a dark, brooding world that explores many themes ranging from morality and ethics to the role of entertainment. Inceptum Terminus combines several genres into a cohesive whole in order to tell the story. These genres are post apocalypse, westerns, biopunk, cyberpunk, superheroes, and science fiction. At the center of all this is the characters whose every action and decision impacts the world around them.
Within the covers are nineteen new professions templates. The professions provide a wonderful cross section of life of the 23rd century from the corporate executive in the steel and glass towers of government down to the underground where the fugitives of society lurk. There are four templates for the secretive magick users that hide from the eyes of society. Magick is a dangerous tool to be of use by even the most well learned practitioner with the cost resulting in the loss of life or their soul. Eleven factions are present, with nine representing the Corporate States of America that rule the former United States. The New Confederation is a relatively new presence in society and being a member is treason. Finally there is the Underworld, who is the undisputed controllers of all contraband and illegal items. Cross them at your own peril. Every faction is in full detail covering their society and legal system.
Each faction fields not only the most destructive man-made weapons and vehicles, but they also have a team of superheroes. Written up is every superhero that is working for their faction with each team averaging five super-powered beings described in detail. They are ready to be played as player characters or can be used as NPCs. Also written up is equipment ranging from a plethora of firearms to security systems to cybernetics. A veritable armory is available to equip characters for their survival. Vehicles and their full subsystems for both offense and defense are presented. Being able to stay one step ahead is important on the deadly streets and in the unpopulated regions. Characters and GMs can choose from an entire fleet of vehicles ready to be used and customized.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/02 14:12:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 14:03:53
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Do you have a link to any information on your game system?
The more people know about it, the better they will be able to help with well informed suggestions
So, perhaps my first suggestion is to provide prospective players some kind of intro/ FAQ that will give them a brief introduction to the game and its core concepts, as well as the game setting.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 14:05:15
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Oppps I forgot that and thank you for reminding me.  I'll update my first post.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 14:05:43
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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No worries
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 14:15:22
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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There y'all go and forgive my oversight regarding the background and the rules.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hero Games does produce a basic version of their rule book that contains almost all of the information presented in the two volume set. The only thing it lacks are the the options and the more complex powers used for building things. The Hero System Basic rule book costs $14.99 for the pdf and $19.99 for the deadtree.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/02 14:32:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 14:58:57
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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I've not knowingly used the Hero system before, but it sounds pretty cool (I hate not being able to quite find the power you want to use when making a character). Regards your own gaming system, the background world seems fairly reasonable, though I would certainly like to read more about it (I think there may actually be a couple of grammatical errors in there as well, but it could just be me). I assume that the "super hero" characters are not stupidly OP compared to regular player characters? So a GG which has one person playing a super hero and the rest playing regular heros will not have any problems with that character being far better than the others? In terms of support... some things that might be cool to see would be floor tiles (my GG used to use big poster sized colour floor plans of generic settings to give us something to look at, as well as to save time drawing everything out). So if there are some places that you see players using as locations fairly often, perhaps some of the key locations in the campaign? Also, a few card terrain features that can be moved around to create a more variable playing area might be a nice touch. Things like crates, shelves, perhaps even rooms and corridors too. Just a few simple things that really help get some interest going. Even if they don't buy the rules system, things like floor tiles etc are sellers for many different game systems. Edit: I am not sure if this is the kind of input you want, so just say if you were looking for something else
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/02 15:03:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 15:16:05
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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SilverMK2 wrote:I've not knowingly used the Hero system before, but it sounds pretty cool (I hate not being able to quite find the power you want to use when making a character).
Regards your own gaming system, the background world seems fairly reasonable, though I would certainly like to read more about it (I think there may actually be a couple of grammatical errors in there as well, but it could just be me).
I assume that the "super hero" characters are not stupidly OP compared to regular player characters? So a GG which has one person playing a super hero and the rest playing regular heros will not have any problems with that character being far better than the others?
In terms of support... some things that might be cool to see would be floor tiles (my GG used to use big poster sized colour floor plans of generic settings to give us something to look at, as well as to save time drawing everything out). So if there are some places that you see players using as locations fairly often, perhaps some of the key locations in the campaign?
Also, a few card terrain features that can be moved around to create a more variable playing area might be a nice touch. Things like crates, shelves, perhaps even rooms and corridors too.
Just a few simple things that really help get some interest going. Even if they don't buy the rules system, things like floor tiles etc are sellers for many different game systems.
Hero System uses a different way of building characters and other things used in a game. They use reasoning from effect, which basically is taking the effect first then reverse engineer it to the base power. All of the powers used are generic, so there could be a hundred different ways of building a lightning bolt for instance.
Thank you and the first setting book only covers the US due to space constraints. The next setting book will cover Canada and Mexico. We've broken the world down into specific geographical regions and using that as a guideline for setting books.
The way the Hero System works, is that there are a set amount of points to build a character. Characters get a set amount of base points plus the points from Complications (disadvantages) to build from. In making Inceptum Terminus, I extended the reasoning from effect to character creation as well. Superheroes and normal people are just a special effect of being human or near human. Both of them get the same amount of points to build from, but there are limitations placed on both types to reinforce the feel of the special effect. In this case, both regular characters and superheroes are built on 375 base points plus 100 points in Complications. Regular characters can be anywhere from 0 points up to 475 points. The great thing about the way I set it up is that all types of characters have to spend points for equipment or natural powers to balance them out with each other.
I know of a really good company that makes tiles etc... that you're talking about. They're called WorldWorksGames and their stuff is fantastic, since it's all based on pdfs that you print out onto paper that you glue to cardstock to build your models. We're thinking about having resin miniatures and paper miniatures for characters, units, etc... I'm curious as to what y'all think about it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/02 15:16:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 15:33:27
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Thanks for clearing up the character creation. I was just not sure how it would work out in terms of balance, as most other systems I have used seem to either really cripple super human characters (as you can never get the effects you want and still keep them playable with a group of non super human characters), or seem to chuck balance out the window and make it almost impossible to play a "normal" hero character
Regards the minatures... I like to have minatures that really reflect the character I am playing, which is sometimes hard to get with custom characters. Though I do really enjoy having models to represent generic bad guys (security forces, soldiers, etc). If you can develop a line of distinctive "backgroud/ NPC" character models, that might be quite fun to use.
I don't know if it would be possible to create a kind of "blank" minature? Something that people can add kit to and otherwise customise to give their PC the look that they want?
And although I would rather have 3D models to represent characters and NPC's, I can see that not everyone will want to spend the cash on resin models, so there will almost certainly be scope for paper versions.
You have to keep in mind that I never really played in big organised GG's or the wider RPG community, it was just a few friends playing around. We used cheap generic models to represent NPC's with whatever game system we were using at the time (we went through a few of the bigger ones, D&D, Star Wars RPG, several different D20 settings, etc) as well as some cheap generic floor tiles and poster sized floor plans, so my thoughts on the matter are probably not those of the majority of RPG players.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 15:35:45
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Calculating Commissar
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I like the sound of it all so far. I've seen Hero around, but never had the chance to play it.
In terms of building an active community that comes back again and again I'd say the most important thing is to be open, where possible. Provide teasers of what's coming up; release unused, or additional material every now and then, such as new plot hooks, characters, missions, locations or equipment. It doesn't have to be big or complicated, but new stuff always brings people back.
Having forums to try and encourage user generated content to go with your background will also help; especially if you promote these in some way. Possibly taking completed threads in the Forums, getting the original author to clean it up into a final article/adventure/character and publishing them as free PDFs on your website so they don't get lost in the sands of time, like so many ideas do
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 15:38:03
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Endtransmission is thinking far more clearly than me
+1 for what he said
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 15:43:03
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Calculating Commissar
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SilverMK2 wrote:Regards the minatures... I like to have minatures that really reflect the character I am playing, which is sometimes hard to get with custom characters. Though I do really enjoy having models to represent generic bad guys (security forces, soldiers, etc). If you can develop a line of distinctive "backgroud/NPC" character models, that might be quite fun to use.
I don't know if it would be possible to create a kind of "blank" minature? Something that people can add kit to and otherwise customise to give their PC the look that they want?
And although I would rather have 3D models to represent characters and NPC's, I can see that not everyone will want to spend the cash on resin models, so there will almost certainly be scope for paper versions.
I'd have to agree. Having some sort of flash application that allows people to create their character as a paper stand-up would be kinda cool. It may also be worth talking to someone like http://www.maxmini.eu about designing a range of modular characters as they already do some excellent superheroes and an ever expanding range of "bits" to customise figures with.
Also some sort of character generator software that helps people create characters or, at the very least, an NPC generator would also help people get started
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/02 15:45:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 15:55:36
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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You are way better at this than I am, ET
In the line of software/paper-ware tools, perhaps some kind of random "terrain/loot/objective/etc" generator might be quite cool, such as if you are raiding a warehouse, you can randomly determine what kinds of things it holds.
Of if you are raiding an office building (/underground bunker/etc), you open the door and roll for what shaped corridor/room is behind it, as well as what it contains (vis enemies, loot, etc).
Just gives people something to lengthen their gaming experience, and also makes it arguably easier to GM some easy sessions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 15:58:18
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I appreciate you both taking the time to ask questions and make suggestions. It really does help me as a game designer to know what the community wants.
That would actually be kind of cool to have software that people can pick the items they want on their character then print it out as a paper miniature. The same could be done with resin miniatures by making everything modular and have a bits range to support it. I don't know if it's financially feasible at this point in time for us to do though.
Hero System does have character creation software. It's called Hero Designer and is really quite handy. You can build characters, bases, vehicles, computers, AIs, and equipment really easy with it.
The beauty of licensing an established rule system is that the owners of said system usually have all of the built in basic support for gamers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would like to mention that D3 Games does have several other settings in the works and one setting already published. For fantasy, D3 Games has released Kamarathin: Kingdom of Tursh with Hallurich being written. Kamarathin is a low fantasy world and Hallurich combines fantasy with 17th century swashbuckling style of world.
On the superhero front there's Neptune Narratives.
I forgot to also mention that there's steampunk project also in the works that is tentatively titled, DaVinci Punk.
All of the settings D3 produces are for the Hero System.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/03/02 16:09:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 16:49:04
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Calculating Commissar
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For the character image generator, something along the lines of these is a good indicator of what I meant. Obviously you don't need to go into quite so much detail:
- http://www.ugo.com/channels/comics/heromachine2/heroMachine2.asp
- http://www.sp-studio.de/
Understandably, both of these sites have been going for quite some time and built up a lot of accessories/designs, so it would be something you'd have to work at slowly, adding new accessories and features over time. I started having a go at making something like this a while back for some character designs I did (see my icon  , but my Flash skills were out of date.
The joy of having an app like that is that people not related to the game will visit your site to use the program for forum icons and stop to pick up the books while they are there
As for the figures, have a chat to MaxMini as a lot of the things you'll want, they can easily sell to anyone for general conversion. They are already doing weapon packs, heads and equipment that fit nicely with 28mm miniatures... so it's probably not too much of a step for them to work out some additional bits that anyone can use, especially if you're driving more sales their way by promoting them. You don't need to produce a modular figure, just some extras that will allow people to modify 28mm figures so they can be used.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 17:05:16
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Thank you for the links and the advice. What do you think about the idea of merging of rpgs and wargames under a unified rule system?
One of the things that I really like about Hero System's Mass Combat rules is that it's completely scalable from squad sized units up to entire armies. Each figure on the table represents a single person/vehicle up to thousands of soldiers/vehicles. There effectively isn't a limit to how big of a battle that you can play.
The core of the rules is the same for the rpg in how turn sequence and combat is handled with additional caveats. Size disparity between the units can inflict greater casualties, while morale, skills, and abilities play crucial role in the flow of combat.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 17:29:14
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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That sounds pretty interesting. I am not sure how you will work that into your game system (perhaps going from a single "cell" of freedom fighters at the start of a campaign, through to more open warfare with a couple of hundred soldiers, up to full scale civil war with thousands of soldiers? And then being able to move back down the scale to represent skermishes, and individual commando style raids etc...)
Certainly interesting, although I am not sure... It would certainly be good to have the option anyway.
Would you be looking to provide 2 scales of models to support this system? Kind of Risk/Epic sized 15mm figures/tokens for the large scale battles and more regular 28/32mm figures for the individual/squad based battles?
That might be pretty cool.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 17:35:52
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Calculating Commissar
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If you're happy with the blending of the two genres then that's the important part. I'd be happy using one system for an rpg up to small skirmish level with each player controlling a small gang or tactical unit. Gut feeling is that using the same stats for larger scale battles could complicate things, but not having seen it in action I can't really comment
To be able to take my character from a roleplay session and then use the same character, with their equipment, skills and team, in a skirmish (or larger) would be very cool. Currently I'm limited to doing it in a fluffy way...
Automatically Appended Next Post: SilverMK2 wrote:That sounds pretty interesting. I am not sure how you will work that into your game system (perhaps going from a single "cell" of freedom fighters at the start of a campaign, through to more open warfare with a couple of hundred soldiers, up to full scale civil war with thousands of soldiers? And then being able to move back down the scale to represent skermishes, and individual commando style raids etc...)
That'd be really easy. Think of it in 40K terms... your main character is an Inquisitor. For small skirmishes he calls in his retinue or a special forces group. For larger scale battles he comandeers the local PDF
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/02 17:37:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 17:40:23
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Member of the Malleus
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To ThePatriot: So the game would use the Hero ruleset with a setting written by you and your co-author? Any artwork? Would you have a lite version to get gamers moving quickly and then the advanced version for those gamers who really want something to sink their teeth into?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 17:46:18
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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SilverMK2 wrote:That sounds pretty interesting. I am not sure how you will work that into your game system (perhaps going from a single "cell" of freedom fighters at the start of a campaign, through to more open warfare with a couple of hundred soldiers, up to full scale civil war with thousands of soldiers? And then being able to move back down the scale to represent skermishes, and individual commando style raids etc...) Certainly interesting, although I am not sure... It would certainly be good to have the option anyway. Would you be looking to provide 2 scales of models to support this system? Kind of Risk/Epic sized 15mm figures/tokens for the large scale battles and more regular 28/32mm figures for the individual/squad based battles? That might be pretty cool. I was thinking of using 28mm then using the mass combat rules that will assign how many troops are represented at each level. This is the scale presented in the mass combat rules: Size of Units Designation 1-3 Individuals 4-15 Squad 16-63 Platoon 64-249 Company 250-999 Battalion 1,000-3,999 Regiment 4,000-15,000 Division For my version of the table it's: Size of Units Designation 10-12 troopers/1 vehicle Squad 4 Squads Platoon (40-48 troops/4 vehicles) 4 Platoons Company (160-192 troops/16 vehicles) 4 Companies Regiment (640-768 troops/64 vehicles) 4 Regiments Brigade (2,560-3,072 troops/256 vehicles) 4 Brigades Division (10,240-12,288 troops/1,024 vehicles) For wargaming purposes, each faction would have a specific table of organization and force mix. Some factions separate out the different combat arms while others use a combined arms approach and others use air mobile. By using this, each game would have a set number of points per side (beauty of using Hero since it's already point based) and their force organization chart. Their force mix will be determined by a specific percentage of each type of troop they can take. Automatically Appended Next Post: Maxstreel wrote:To ThePatriot: So the game would use the Hero ruleset with a setting written by you and your co-author? Any artwork? Would you have a lite version to get gamers moving quickly and then the advanced version for those gamers who really want something to sink their teeth into? I plan on releasing a supplement that is purely for wargaming, but would have the same history that is present in the core setting book. I would put in the superhero teams and each of the military units. The role playing stuff would be completely separate. Right now, the artist that D3 Games has contracted to do the art hasn't finished any pieces yet, but I can tell you that he's a very good artist that is pretty popular in the comics industry. I'm happy with his artistic vision for my setting. Automatically Appended Next Post: endtransmission wrote:If you're happy with the blending of the two genres then that's the important part. I'd be happy using one system for an rpg up to small skirmish level with each player controlling a small gang or tactical unit. Gut feeling is that using the same stats for larger scale battles could complicate things, but not having seen it in action I can't really comment
To be able to take my character from a roleplay session and then use the same character, with their equipment, skills and team, in a skirmish (or larger) would be very cool. Currently I'm limited to doing it in a fluffy way...
It actually works out pretty well. The mass combat rules have been around since the late-80's when Fantasy Hero was in 4th edition.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/03/02 17:54:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 19:28:04
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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It looks rather interesting.
Personally, *I* wouldn't play it, but that's strictly due to time constraints. If I had more gaming time available, I'd look into it.
That being said, I did read your first post (a couple times). My advice is to hire a professional editor. respectfully, the writing looks like something you'd put together for your personal gaming group, who's going to overlook errors in favor of the whole. Your average, anonymous gamer is going to get about 10 pages into reading your book and put it back on the shelf.
I know I would.
Again - no insult intended. Just constructive criticism.
Eric
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Black Fiend wrote: Okay all the ChapterHouse Nazis to the right!! All the GW apologists to the far left. LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!
The Green Git wrote: I'd like to cross section them and see if they have TFG rings, but that's probably illegal.
Polonius wrote: You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.
Greebynog wrote:Us brits have a sense of fair play and propriety that you colonial savages can only dream of.
Stelek wrote: I know you're afraid. I want you to be. Because you should be. I've got the humiliation wagon all set up for you to take a ride back to suck city.
Quote: LunaHound--- Why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?
I just can't stand it when people have fun the wrong way. - Chongara
I do believe that the GW "moneysheep" is a dying breed, despite their bleats to the contrary. - AesSedai
You are a thief and a predator of the wargaming community, and i'll be damned if anyone says differently ever again on my watch in these forums. -MajorTom11 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 19:54:43
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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MagickalMemories wrote:It looks rather interesting.
Personally, *I* wouldn't play it, but that's strictly due to time constraints. If I had more gaming time available, I'd look into it.
That being said, I did read your first post (a couple times). My advice is to hire a professional editor. respectfully, the writing looks like something you'd put together for your personal gaming group, who's going to overlook errors in favor of the whole. Your average, anonymous gamer is going to get about 10 pages into reading your book and put it back on the shelf.
I know I would.
Again - no insult intended. Just constructive criticism.
Eric
Not to be snarky, but I do have an editor and what I posted is the proofed versions I did of the information for the press release and the back cover information. I send the writing off to the editors and in the case of the back cover information/press release I do not get the edited version back. Nothing I have posted is from the actual edited book, since the book is going through the first draft editing process as we speak.
When I open a discussion on an internet forum, I do not have the time or money to pay an editor to go over my posts. My posts are, frankly, raw format that has been proofed for grammar and spelling errors. If you wish to nail someone for grammar and spelling I would wish for you to check your own before you call someone out on theirs.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/02 20:22:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 20:27:30
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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ThePatriot wrote:Not to be snarky, but I do have an editor and what I posted is the proofed versions I did of the information for the press release and the back cover information. I send the writing off to the editors and in the case of the back cover information/press release I do not get the edited version back. Nothing I have posted is from the actual edited book, since the book is going through the first draft editing process as we speak.
Perhaps mentioning that at the start would have been a good idea. If you're posting something that you say is from the book, I think it's reasonable for people to assume that what you have posted is what is in the book...
It's also natural for people to expect a higher quality of writing from a published book than they would necessarily aim for in their own forum posts.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/02 20:30:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 20:34:01
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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insaniak wrote:ThePatriot wrote:Not to be snarky, but I do have an editor and what I posted is the proofed versions I did of the information for the press release and the back cover information. I send the writing off to the editors and in the case of the back cover information/press release I do not get the edited version back. Nothing I have posted is from the actual edited book, since the book is going through the first draft editing process as we speak.
Perhaps mentioning that at the start would have been a good idea. If you're posting something that you say is from the book, I think it's reasonable for people to assume that what you have posted is what is in the book...
I, actually, did do that. My first post before the edits was me politely asking for input from the community here. When SilverMK2 suggested I post up something about the setting, I specifically mentioned where they came from, which was the press release and the back cover for the book. Prior to that, it was just a post asking for input on what the community likes to see, which definitely wouldn't be in the setting book.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/03/02 20:36:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 20:59:19
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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ThePatriot wrote:... I specifically mentioned where they came from, which was the press release and the back cover for the book.
Exactly the point. No mention of them being unfinished versions of this text.
Seriously, you asked for feedback, and you got some. It was a polite suggestion that the text as presented was perhaps not as professional as might be ideal for a printed product. No need to get snarky about it, which is how your 'suggestion' in return sounded.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 21:06:34
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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insaniak wrote:ThePatriot wrote:... I specifically mentioned where they came from, which was the press release and the back cover for the book.
Exactly the point. No mention of them being unfinished versions of this text.
Seriously, you asked for feedback, and you got some. It was a polite suggestion that the text as presented was perhaps not as professional as might be ideal for a printed product. No need to get snarky about it, which is how your 'suggestion' in return sounded.
Which wasn't on topic of what was asked now was it?
I specifically asked for feedback regarding wargames and implementing them. I did not ask for feedback on my writing skills or editing. Here's a reminder of what I specifically asked for.
The next set of questions that I'm currently dealing with is how to support the community, as a game designer. This covers a lot of ground that ranges from miniatures to scenarios/adventures. One of things that my co-author and I agree on is that we don't like the idea of being dedicated to releasing stuff for only faction and ignoring the rest. The other major thing is we don't like power creep with the release of each new or updated army. I'd like to know your thoughts regarding paper miniatures, regular miniatures, and other forms of support for games that you feel is necessary to build a thriving community. I'd like to take the time to thank you for your participation in this discussion ahead of time.
Do you see where I asked for feedback on my writing or editing?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 21:10:44
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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If you put the stuff out there, people will comment on it regardless of what you're specifically asking for.
Seriously, just let it go. If you want people to actually pick up the finished product, you do yourself no favours by getting cranky about feedback offered with good intentions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 21:13:14
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Fresh-Faced New User
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insaniak wrote:If you put the stuff out there, people will comment on it regardless of what you're specifically asking for.
Seriously, just let it go. If you want people to actually pick up the finished product, you do yourself no favours by getting cranky about feedback offered with good intentions.
Oh it's dropped, so do you have anything to add that is on topic?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/03/02 22:58:27
Subject: Design Decisions and Community Input for Inceptum Terminus
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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ThePatriot wrote:Not to be snarky, but I do have an editor and what I posted is the proofed versions I did of the information for the press release and the back cover information. I send the writing off to the editors and in the case of the back cover information/press release I do not get the edited version back. Nothing I have posted is from the actual edited book, since the book is going through the first draft editing process as we speak.
When I open a discussion on an internet forum, I do not have the time or money to pay an editor to go over my posts. My posts are, frankly, raw format that has been proofed for grammar and spelling errors. If you wish to nail someone for grammar and spelling I would wish for you to check your own before you call someone out on theirs.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt on yout post until I read the emboldened piece.
I do not believe you had no intent to be snarky.
Now, to keep it on target and on topic:
ThePatriot wrote:I'd like to know your thoughts regarding paper miniatures, regular miniatures, and other forms of support for games that you feel is necessary to build a thriving community.
Re: emboldened
To build a thriving community, the game designers should ensure that they always put their best foot forward. This includes everything from professional looking/sounding descriptions to clarity on any sort of public communications, like internet forums.
An online gaming community does not appreciate and will not support a company whose representatives browbeat or attempt to insult them for posting comments. An online gaming community wants to be heard and appreciated, whether they're fawning over your latest release or pointing out where you have gone wrong in their eyes.
Additionally, should you be posting "pre-release" game information or details that have not been properly vetted by your legal counsel or editing staff, a forewarning would likely be in order. Posting information on the game, such as "back cover information" or "press releases" (for example) prior to their official release date, a wise game designer/manager/owner will ensure that he advises those reading it that it is not a completed document and that an editing staff is currently reviewing said documentation. By taking that one extra step, he might discover that people are more willing to overlook those errors and not comment on them (even in attempts to be helpful), as they will feel assured that a professional editor will fix the errors that are both common and accepted in normal, everyday conversation.
Should you decide to continue hawking your wares on internet forums, it is a wise idea not to insult or taunt the Moderators and/or other staff of those sites. Such actions often find you dealing with repercussions, such as suspension, banning, or alienating the very individuals you're trying to attract with what they perceive as "negative behavior."
If attempting to open your own forums, I would advise that any Administrators, Moderators or other staff members not be individuals with a personal stake in the game itself, unless they have a proven track record of being able to accept all criticism - constructive or otherwise- without reverting to insulting, combative or otherwise confrontational actions. Such behavior leaves a sour taste in the mouths of those who are attempting to become a member of that forum/community, and will quickly cause a mass exodus.
As an administrator of a community-type web forum who counts its' members in the tens of thousands myself, I understand the complications and difficulity in growing and maintaining the balance of such a forum. Good luck to you with yours. A sneaking feeling tells me you'll be needing it.
Eric
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Black Fiend wrote: Okay all the ChapterHouse Nazis to the right!! All the GW apologists to the far left. LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!
The Green Git wrote: I'd like to cross section them and see if they have TFG rings, but that's probably illegal.
Polonius wrote: You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.
Greebynog wrote:Us brits have a sense of fair play and propriety that you colonial savages can only dream of.
Stelek wrote: I know you're afraid. I want you to be. Because you should be. I've got the humiliation wagon all set up for you to take a ride back to suck city.
Quote: LunaHound--- Why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?
I just can't stand it when people have fun the wrong way. - Chongara
I do believe that the GW "moneysheep" is a dying breed, despite their bleats to the contrary. - AesSedai
You are a thief and a predator of the wargaming community, and i'll be damned if anyone says differently ever again on my watch in these forums. -MajorTom11 |
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