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Everybody always talks about ps3s and Xbox 360s thinking that they are the best in the world when to be honest they are not, I have several reasons for this
1. They are expensive and are not rewarding or give you skills
2. They are and break down due to some stupid software malfunction or over-heating
2.It is usually very anti-social
3.The games are waaay to hard (I have not completed a single proper game so far in my life)
I am not trolling, I am just getting my point accross and see if there are any people that agree with me.

colonnello wrote:Everybody always talks about ps3s and Xbox 360s thinking that they are the best in the world when to be honest they are not, I have several reasons for this
1. They are expensive and are not rewarding or give you skills
2. They are and break down due to some stupid software malfunction or over-heating
2.It is usually very anti-social
3.The games are waaay to hard (I have not completed a single proper game so far in my life)
I am not trolling, I am just getting my point accross and see if there are any people that agree with me.

1. So's a boat, 4x4, wargaming army, or many other HOBBY elements. Also, it's been proven that playing consoles at a young age increases your hand-eye coordination, so it does, in fact, give you skills. As for not being rewarding, that's subjective and an opinion. Many people do find them rewarding.
2. Later versions of both those consoles don't suffer from the same errors as the first few runs. Yes, there are still errors, but then again, computers have them, too.
3. So are internet message boards, if you believe that. Get off Dakka, it's not social!
4. This last one is a personal problem, not a problem with the medium itself.

not sure I follow the logic that a messaging board is anti-social
Do you mean that the messages are anti-social?
or the poster?

you could always try posting something nice- How do you do?
How are you my dear old thing?

see it's easy to be sociable

Being on the internet, in general, isn't a "social" activity. You gain no appreciable social skills from it, due to the lack of face to face interaction.

Really? Not trolling? This sure sounds like trolling, considering that you've stated your 'reasons' as if they were fact, and not just entirely your personal opinion.

1:Have you even ever bought a console or PC yourself? Or have mom and dad blessed you with one like most parents? A decent gaming PC costs the same as a console. A high-end gaming PC will usually cost twice that. I've saved up and bought 2 PCs and a PS2 in my lifetime, and I can easily say that the PCs were both x3 more expensive, all told, than the PS2. and that was when they were still the new platform. Then you need to worry about antivirus programs and other essential protection software. As far as skills, Consoles can give you better hand-eye co-ordination, PCs can increase your typing speed.

As far as this point goes, I would say this is just an uninformed, biased opinion.

2: Early 360s and PS3s did, but then again how many people have had 3D cards , motherboards, or Hard drives burn out? Certainly more than consoles, considering it's very easy to overload a PC's running capacity if you aren't 100% sure about what you're doing.

You at least have some fact to this, though it's barely valid nowadays.

3: And being a PC addict is, I suppose, a great way to further your social life?

See summary of point 1 for views on point 3. "Not trolling" indeed. *Eyeroll*

4: Your lack of skill has nothing to do with the games being too hard or either system being crappy. That's just you being terrible at those games, and probably not having the patience to keep practicing until you get it right. Maybe if you email Sony and Microsoft, and tell them that you find their games too hard, they'll add a difficulty setting to all their future games, just for you.

See summary of point 1 for thoughts on point 4



And to top this off, I'm not a console gamer either, mostly because I don't enjoy it. I prefer PC gaming. I just think this thread is you going out of the way to whine in hopes of pissing off a few hardcore console fanboys which, yes, IS trolling.

colonnello wrote:Everybody always talks about ps3s and Xbox 360s thinking that they are the best in the world when to be honest they are not, I have several reasons for this
1. They are expensive and are not rewarding or give you skills
2. They are and break down due to some stupid software malfunction or over-heating
2.It is usually very anti-social
3.The games are waaay to hard (I have not completed a single proper game so far in my life)
I am not trolling, I am just getting my point accross and see if there are any people that agree with me.

Oh rly? I must say you have me wondering on your whining.

1. Expensive, of course, what did you except? And not rewarding your skills? Have you played Mw2 online?
2. No handle with care and common sense
2. No its not, get a headset or play with friends. Simple as that
3. To hard? If I may ask, what are your skills? The games are supposed to be challenging, your complete lack of skills are YOUR fault! And the part abput you not trolling? Can`t say i believe you.

I'll bite

1) Never a good thing to bring up on the forums of an expensive hobby. I'll leave it there.
2) Sometimes. They also come with warranties. Frustrating, but not awful.
3) It depends. I am of the opinion that the internet is a terrible place and only people 14 or older should be allowed onto it after being warned about what to expect. However, a lot of games (especially RPGs and Adventure games) offer good examples of how a person should act towards others (NOTE: I'm talking about how the hero reacts to regular people. Running around doing all their stuff for them, helping old ladies across streets, etc. I don't mean the killing people part.) This rule doesn't apply to most FPS and fighting games.
4) Most games come with variable difficulty settings. Also, the internet has a wealth of places that can tell you how to beat a game, whether it's general strategy for a game or a cut and dry "Walk three steps S-SW, jump twice, tap B, turn around, hit X-X-Y, hold left button and use the right joystick to..." You get what I mean.

1. Expensive, yes and I believe stupidly so. "Skills" depends on what you play I suppose. I used to love practicing fighting games then going to the arcade to play and interact with real people on them (not that arcades are that common anymore).
2. There's no excuse for even the first wave of a system to suck that bad and break. It's completely ridiculous and I believe it's foolish to spend money on a second after the first breaks.
3. "Anti-social" has nothing to do with the newest wave of consoles so much as video games in general. I can got to one of four different friend's houses and we can throwdown on Smash Bros, and they can invite their friends and all of us can play. Sounds fairly social to me
4. I disagree. You have save states now. You didn't on NES. Beat Bionic Commando without Game Genie then complain.

I'm going to respond to Cannerus. Because I'm kinda bored and it's always amusing.

1) "Practicing fighting games" was never, ever about skill. It was always who pushed which button first or who picked what character. Remember Blanka?
2) The entire "first wave" doesn't break. It's usually a single batch(maybe 100 of a couple hundred thousand for the entire first production run) that has some minor defect that also results from improper usage (the 360 is the best example I can give you. It explicitly said in the manual "Do not situate console on its thinner end, as it blocks the vents that expel heat"...yet people did it and got upset when it was discovered that there was a limited number of consoles with improper wiring that, when combined with the console stored wrong AND the people who left them on 24/7--resulted in bamf! the improper wiring being fused due to the heat build-up of lengthy usage).
3) I'm of the opinion the anti-social aspect comes from the fact that cooperative game modes are being more and more discouraged by the player base, while the competitive nature is being more and more emphasized. Perfect example is the Spec Ops mode in Modern Warfare 2 and the Firefight modes in Halo: ODST.

Nobody wants to play either, because for the same time you can get eRewards and know you just made someone rage.
4) Three words:
Ninja Gaiden(original).

Feth you Ryu.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm going to respond to Cannerus. Because I'm kinda bored and it's always amusing.

2) The entire "first wave" doesn't break. It's usually a single batch(maybe 100 of a couple hundred thousand for the entire first production run) that has some minor defect that also results from improper usage (the 360 is the best example I can give you. It explicitly said in the manual "Do not situate console on its thinner end, as it blocks the vents that expel heat"...yet people did it and got upset when it was discovered that there was a limited number of consoles with improper wiring that, when combined with the console stored wrong AND the people who left them on 24/7--resulted in bamf! the improper wiring being fused due to the heat build-up of lengthy usage)

To add to this: If a machine -does- burn out, 99% of the time a company will send a replacement, unless you intentionally destroy the system.

The early model 360 had about a 54% failure rate but they fixed it with a redesign.

They also established a $1 billion dollar fund to pay for replacements and so on.

(Or at least they said they did though MS often give out those kind of figures as fluffy dollars.)

Kanluwen wrote:
1) "Practicing fighting games" was never, ever about skill. It was always who pushed which button first or who picked what character. Remember Blanka?

Have to disagree with you there I've seen "top" tournament players taken down by oddball choices from random "scrub" players. It usually won't happen a third or fourth time because they become wise on the... weirdness of that player, but it's still fun to see. You have to practice that 100% damage combo or else you quite simply aren't going to pull it off. I try to stay away from games where first hit determines winner though. SNK games are a lot better about being not so combo-y.

Kanluwen wrote:
2) The entire "first wave" doesn't break. It's usually a single batch(maybe 100 of a couple hundred thousand for the entire first production run) that has some minor defect that also results from improper usage (the 360 is the best example I can give you. It explicitly said in the manual "Do not situate console on its thinner end, as it blocks the vents that expel heat"...yet people did it and got upset when it was discovered that there was a limited number of consoles with improper wiring that, when combined with the console stored wrong AND the people who left them on 24/7--resulted in bamf! the improper wiring being fused due to the heat build-up of lengthy usage).

Really? They burn out like Nightcrawler teleports? I would argue that the company doesn't always replace them when they should and it's not frequently because of horrid misuse. I've had friends who barely play them and take good care of them break. Amazingly my old Game boy still works just fine. We'll see how many 360s are still running 10 - 15 years down the road. Just google anything about repairing an xbox and you'll see the ridiculous failure rate and how often the company won't replace the console.

Kanluwen wrote:
3) I'm of the opinion the anti-social aspect comes from the fact that cooperative game modes are being more and more discouraged by the player base, while the competitive nature is being more and more emphasized. Perfect example is the Spec Ops mode in Modern Warfare 2 and the Firefight modes in Halo: ODST.

Nobody wants to play either, because for the same time you can get eRewards and know you just made someone rage.

Very true. The world needs another Final Fight, King of Dragons, Sunset Riders, Fighting Force, King of Monsters or actual Ninja Turtles game. I miss the times when a "shooter" referred to a tiny space ship/plane that shot other tiny space ships/planes. Having a friend join you in one of those was always fun

Kanluwen wrote:
4) Three words:
Ninja Gaiden(original).

Feth you Ryu.

Good show, sir.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
1) "Practicing fighting games" was never, ever about skill. It was always who pushed which button first or who picked what character. Remember Blanka?

Have to disagree with you there I've seen "top" tournament players taken down by oddball choices from random "scrub" players. It usually won't happen a third or fourth time because they become wise on the... weirdness of that player, but it's still fun to see. You have to practice that 100% damage combo or else you quite simply aren't going to pull it off. I try to stay away from games where first hit determines winner though. SNK games are a lot better about being not so combo-y.

Okay, I'll give you that one But it was never really, imo, about skill. It was about who had the most quarters and hogged the machines the most.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
2) The entire "first wave" doesn't break. It's usually a single batch(maybe 100 of a couple hundred thousand for the entire first production run) that has some minor defect that also results from improper usage (the 360 is the best example I can give you. It explicitly said in the manual "Do not situate console on its thinner end, as it blocks the vents that expel heat"...yet people did it and got upset when it was discovered that there was a limited number of consoles with improper wiring that, when combined with the console stored wrong AND the people who left them on 24/7--resulted in bamf! the improper wiring being fused due to the heat build-up of lengthy usage).

Really? They burn out like Nightcrawler teleports? I would argue that the company doesn't always replace them when they should and it's not frequently because of horrid misuse. I've had friends who barely play them and take good care of them break. Amazingly my old Game boy still works just fine. We'll see how many 360s are still running 10 - 15 years down the road. Just google anything about repairing an xbox and you'll see the ridiculous failure rate and how often the company won't replace the console.

I had my first run 360 until, literally, a few days ago when it finally died on me. When the machine originally had issues back in September(shortly after the warranty expired), Microsoft gave me a $200 voucher towards the MW2 console(which was a buttload more storage space and a bit more compact than my original).
If that's not good customer service, I don't know what is
But yeah. There seems to be an extreme disconnect in regards to 360s. You have some people who constantly claim "I take great care of it, but somehow it broke!!" It always seems to me that there might be something they're doing that isn't kosher for the console. Not just about the 360s though, but some of the PS3s too. There always seems something that is being done off, whether it's storing it in a weird place or they've spilled something on it or any number of things.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
3) I'm of the opinion the anti-social aspect comes from the fact that cooperative game modes are being more and more discouraged by the player base, while the competitive nature is being more and more emphasized. Perfect example is the Spec Ops mode in Modern Warfare 2 and the Firefight modes in Halo: ODST.

Nobody wants to play either, because for the same time you can get eRewards and know you just made someone rage.

Very true. The world needs another Final Fight, King of Dragons, Sunset Riders, Fighting Force, King of Monsters or actual Ninja Turtles game. I miss the times when a "shooter" referred to a tiny space ship/plane that shot other tiny space ships/planes. Having a friend join you in one of those was always fun

That's why I loved Army of Two. My friends and I make a point of whenever we're just hanging out of having an Army of Two fistbumpathon.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
4) Three words:
Ninja Gaiden(original).

Feth you Ryu.

Good show, sir.

Naturally

I have no doubt people on the internet fib. I've just known enough "real" people with problems to see some of the fallout. When the place I work at acquired the leftover goods from the closing Circuit City's there were several mostly new consoles that had stopped working for weird reasons.

With regards to the social aspect of games:

While I was growing up, the only times I would play video games were when I was with friends. If I had time to myself I'd read a book or go find some people to play with (note, I'm talking about being young enough that when I say play I mean 'run around outside and make believe' or 'ride bikes'. actual playing). Even when I got a console of my own (gamecube for christmas one year), I didn't really care for playing single player games. I only really played Single Player on Brawl, and that was just so I could unlock everything so I could play with my friends.

Even as I've gotten older, my favorite time to play video games is playing co-op with my best friend. One of our main criteria for if we'll pick up a game is if it offers co-op, especially if it's splitscreen co-op.

Which is why it's really disappointing to see the shift away from co-op (and especially splitscreen) in favor of more competitive game types. We devoured Borderlands (on PC mind you) because it had a strong emphasis on co-op, and it was terrific fun to experience that way. All of the quirky humour and moments of awesome became better because they were something shared.

And here's the real kicker: Having some form of co-op in your game can't hurt sales at all. I mean really, are there people out there who won't buy a game because they could, if they wanted, play it with their friend from start to finish? The only reason I got Borderlands was because I could play it with my friend. (NOTE: I don't support required co-op. Red Alert three made you choose between playing with a subpar AI or another person, and people (not us, of course, since we had a partner) complained because the game was much harder).

The gist of this is that I know that I'm not alone. I can't be the only person who's game purchasing patterns are strongly influenced by whether I can play a game in co-op mode. So it makes a lot of sense for more game developers to put in some co-op, because not only can those games reach people like me, but it also helps games be more social.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I have no doubt people on the internet fib. I've just known enough "real" people with problems to see some of the fallout. When the place I work at acquired the leftover goods from the closing Circuit City's there were several mostly new consoles that had stopped working for weird reasons.

See, but those kinds of things are common on any system. I've known PCs that suddenly stop working, even with everything in perfect condition. By contrast, I've seen 360s that really had no reason still running due to the owner being an idiot.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I miss the times when a "shooter" referred to a tiny space ship/plane that shot other tiny space ships/planes. Having a friend join you in one of those was always fun

If you've got a 360 and an internet connection for it(even if only occasional or just this once), go download Aegis Wing. It's free, challenging, and pretty much requires multiple players to finish(especially on Insane).

It's a fun little side scrolling ship shooter where you can pick up secondary weapon power ups and the players can join together into bigger ships(which multiplies the power up power). Very fun, very old skool. I've played through it a few times with various groups, and it's always been fun(never played it across Live, but that's also an option for the multiplayer). Great party game(like the new Wii Mario).

That sounds really cool. I'll have to check it out when I visit my little cousin

colonnello wrote:Everybody always talks about ps3s and Xbox 360s thinking that they are the best in the world when to be honest they are not, I have several reasons for this
1. They are expensive and are not rewarding or give you skills
2. They are and break down due to some stupid software malfunction or over-heating
2.It is usually very anti-social
3.The games are waaay to hard (I have not completed a single proper game so far in my life)
I am not trolling, I am just getting my point accross and see if there are any people that agree with me.

1. Yup, yup, yup. And for those comparing wargaming to video games, personally I can't see how it's as expensive. I also think it ticks the second two boxes completely. Games are good for winding down when you're too tired/demotivated to do anything else. They don't teach you anything worthwhile, and if they do, it's nothing you couldn't have learned to a better degree elsewhere.

2a. Not reliable, true. Can't see how you can argue with that.

2b. Older consoles had better split screen games meaning they were often used as something to do when you're mates came round, nowadays that's gone, online is just like playing against the computer except the computer yelps swear words when you kill them. And voice chat does nothing to change that since 99% of the chat is complete garbage.

3. I don't find this personally. Just keep trying.

...where did OP go?

People quickly noticed the trolling and played along out of boredom. I will counter the Bionic Commando comment with Contra. 3 lives and getting shot in the foot kills you instantly. Older games were always about memorizing patterns due to system limitations.

I always find it funny how the 360 fail rate is never the same depending on who posts it. Even the new slimline ps3's have the same problem when handled the same way. The vast majority of new games are too easy to most "hardcore" and "veteran" gamers. Playing Modern Warfare 2 on its hardest difficulty was just a matter of find the path with the least enemies and pew pew your way through. The social aspect is cured by having friends or the internet.

Things that are expensive to build cost a lot of money for the consumer? Who would have thought of that?

colonnello wrote:Everybody always talks about ps3s and Xbox 360s thinking that they are the best in the world when to be honest they are not, I have several reasons for this
1. They are expensive and are not rewarding or give you skills
2. They are and break down due to some stupid software malfunction or over-heating
2.It is usually very anti-social
3.The games are waaay to hard (I have not completed a single proper game so far in my life)
I am not trolling, I am just getting my point accross and see if there are any people that agree with me.

1. Depends on how/what you buy. Look at wargaming: one 40k army alone can easily hike upwards of $1000. Console gaming is (now) about a $200 to $300 investment at first, with the occasional $50-$60 purchase for games. Plus, constructing your own PC build can easily get hugely expensive for all the top-end parts. If you want a really cheap hobby to go for, try collecting buttons.

2a. Well, yes, the first wave of consoles seemed to be more prone to defects. But again, it does partly depend on how well you treat the console - most 360 players will tell you that if you put the console on its slim end, it'll overheat. I can't really say it's more prone to one company over another, though, since my Wii broke down a few months ago, and my 360 is still playing as well as it did on the first day I got it.

2b. Two words: online gaming. While probably less healthy than face to face contact, it is no less social.

3. To put it bluntly, that's your own darn fault. Skill levels can be vastly different across gamers. Plus, you can't tell me that modern games are even remotely harder than old NES games, where you only get 3 lives for the entire game, and stepping on a rock can kill you. Try any of the old Megaman games or the original Ninja Gaiden (Heck, even its modern equivalents do a fair job of living up to the original's sheer difficulty). You'll see the true meaning of frustration in gaming. And if you haven't completed a single proper game in your whole life, then you've either played nothing but the balls-to-the-wall insane difficulty games - or you're just a lousy gamer.

I love my PS3 and it hasn't given me any problems for 2+ years now.

OK then...

1. Pffffff. Go fly a kite.

2. So does your computer, so does your car.

3. Ever heard of "Having friends over and playing Xbox/PS3" or this dainty "Online" thing?

4. Man up

sA

Just a few points, Some are saying that War-games are expensive too. Yes i agree but lets look at the Cost vs hour.

1. XBOX360 200Dollars ( set cost to get it ) i know it was higher back in the day to get it. Games Roughly 60$ a pop for how long? How long do some of the games take to beat now? 6 to 10 hours of play so that averages out to roughly 6 dollars an hour for some games (i know others that are way longer take Morrowind for example ive put in over 400 hours on that game. and how many new games come out that you get so you don't get bored of the same one. Hell there are numerous games released monthly.

1a. To get into Warhammer 40k roughly takes 200 dollars too. get AoBR at 60 ish dollars (be web savvy and get it from a good site with a discount) 25 for your codex, grab a box or 2 of squads to set up about a 1000 pt army at 35 dollars each. Paints, brushes, extra dice so that is roughly 180 dollars to get into the game. With that look at how long you can enjoy that same army that you started with, hell i know a few guys that still play the same army after 5 years because they enjoy it so much after a while you totally overcome the cost to get in the game with the hourly price of the game. so to me in the long run War-gaming is cheaper then console games.

2. That's life, not everything is perfect or will ever be perfect deal with it.
2a its only anti social if you make it that way. I have friends who have all the systems and we go over to each others houses all the time to have some fun on different games.. take a case of beer and do a drunk smash Brothers night... you get better the drunker you get =)

3. You sound like someone who plays WoW, OMG this is too hard i cant do this * * that is what ruined that game, im glad that most companies do not listen to people like you, i enjoy the challenge of beating some of the games... but you want to watch something funny... grab a kid that is use to 360 games or PS3 games and put him in-front of the Original Megaman and watch him go ballistic because of how hard that game was. and i totally agree on the Ninja Gaiden comment. ...... i still want to throw my controller into the wall with that one.

Just suck it up and drive on there are many different opinions on this topic but these are mine and i know alot of people that agree and some who don't.

nintendoeats wrote:...where did OP go?

This is usually the sign on a troll. They say something to get a response from people, and then tuck tail and run away. Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dragonchef wrote: Just a few points, Some are saying that War-games are expensive too. Yes i agree but lets look at the Cost vs hour.

1. XBOX360 200Dollars ( set cost to get it ) i know it was higher back in the day to get it. Games Roughly 60$ a pop for how long? How long do some of the games take to beat now? 6 to 10 hours of play so that averages out to roughly 6 dollars an hour for some games (i know others that are way longer take Morrowind for example ive put in over 400 hours on that game. and how many new games come out that you get so you don't get bored of the same one. Hell there are numerous games released monthly.

1a. To get into Warhammer 40k roughly takes 200 dollars too. get AoBR at 60 ish dollars (be web savvy and get it from a good site with a discount) 25 for your codex, grab a box or 2 of squads to set up about a 1000 pt army at 35 dollars each. Paints, brushes, extra dice so that is roughly 180 dollars to get into the game. With that look at how long you can enjoy that same army that you started with, hell i know a few guys that still play the same army after 5 years because they enjoy it so much after a while you totally overcome the cost to get in the game with the hourly price of the game. so to me in the long run War-gaming is cheaper then console games.

2. That's life, not everything is perfect or will ever be perfect deal with it.
2a its only anti social if you make it that way. I have friends who have all the systems and we go over to each others houses all the time to have some fun on different games.. take a case of beer and do a drunk smash Brothers night... you get better the drunker you get =)

3. You sound like someone who plays WoW, OMG this is too hard i cant do this * * that is what ruined that game, im glad that most companies do not listen to people like you, i enjoy the challenge of beating some of the games... but you want to watch something funny... grab a kid that is use to 360 games or PS3 games and put him in-front of the Original Megaman and watch him go ballistic because of how hard that game was. and i totally agree on the Ninja Gaiden comment. ...... i still want to throw my controller into the wall with that one.

Just suck it up and drive on there are many different opinions on this topic but these are mine and i know alot of people that agree and some who don't.

That is the truest statement EVER written on dakka. I grew up playing the original nintendo (and occasionally the 2600) anywho, those games were friggin HARD! But somehow, you usually would figure out how to power through them. Now adays if things get to hard, you press the pause button and turn down the difficulty. Really?! Thats how you play games now?!?!? lol

Well, video games are now much more about the experience than the machismo (because somebody realised that getting the high score at pac-man at your local arcade STILL won't get you laid). I can appreciate that some people like higher difficulty, but on the whole most people want to see and do everything without having to kill themselves for it. Mainstream games getting easier was both inevitable and desireable.

nintendoeats wrote:Well, video games are now much more about the experience than the machismo

I would agree with that except they replaced points with Achievements/Trophies.

Yeah, but if trophies aren't a requirement of the game, or the only goal. They are there if you want them, but theya re defenitely sideshow material.

I think perhaps the TC was very young, so let's be kind. They don't sound like someone with a lot of experience gaming, and they just want to be part of a conversation.

Colonnello, it's important that you understand the difference between the Wii and the XBox 360 and PS3. The 360 and PS3 are "hardcore gamer" consoles. They cater to a totally different audience than the Wii, which is meant for children and casual gamers. The reason why you hear so much about the 360 and the PS3 is because most of the people who talk about video games in open forums are "hardcore gamers."

In general, if you want to make an argument on geek forums like Dakka Dakka, it is best to make sure your points hold up, or else you're going to get ripped apart like you have been in this thread. I'm assuming that your intentions were pure and you weren't ready for the response you got, which is why you've been quiet. This has actually been pretty timid compared to some of the threads on here.

1. All games are expense. Rewarding is in the eye of the beholder, and there's the hand-eye coordination thing.

2. PS3's don't really break down. Early run XBox 360s can Red Ring, but I hear less and less about it as people purchase the newer versions with the improved chipsets.

3. Try playing Rock Band on 360 with a full band of four.

4. Turn down the difficulty level.