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What units do IG have that works best against monstrous creatures , plasma gun? melta gun?
whats the best option to deploy them against such targets?

How many of these weapons are a good amoount o_o?
I have heard good things about Manticore as good for everything.

Against MCs, your best bet would probably be plasma weapons. Try Executioners; 5 plasma cannon shots is nothing to sniff at. They're blast weapons though, so they might miss a fair bit. I've been considering plasma Vets in Chimeras; that BS4 really helps.

Hands down best anti-MC unit are the ignominious ratlings. If you bump up their leadership with kell or a commissar lord, give them bring it down and watch the MCs tumble.
Manticore, I am probably the only guard player who doesn't like them. Its just a AV12 vehicle...I fought one once and I shelled with my basilisks and that was that. its the AP4 that does it for me. It would be pretty useless against MCs. At most you get 3 wounds and they fail one save on average

How does ratling go through the 2+ , 3+ AS with multiwounds?

Rending, and the growing scarcity of 2+ MCs makes it easy too

If i want to mount veterans into air transport , is there a big difference between chimera , valkyrie , vendetta?

You really shouldn't ever really take a Valkyrie over the vendetta unless you are hurting for 30 points. I personally like to give every one their own chimera. Sometimes the vendetta serves you best by blasting 3 lascannons a turn, but your veterans still have a transport to use, and the chimera is by no means a waste of 55 points. It's all about tactical flexibility.

just through guardsmen at it. YAH

The Manticore is amazing against everything, except MCs.

Plasma through Executioners or lascannons through Vendettas are your best bets.

Alternatively, you could just put a ton of wounds on them and have them fail some armor saves by pelting them with Hydras.

For infantry units, melta and plasma both work well. Grenade Launchers in line squads will do nicely, and MCs are among the few targets that ratlings excel against.

LunaHound wrote:If i want to mount veterans into air transport , is there a big difference between chimera , valkyrie , vendetta?

Yeah, and choosing the wrong one for the role you're searching for will be noticeable.

Go with the Chimera if you want to have mobile, consistent firepower. Chimeras are much better at a take-and-hold approach to IG, where you roll your vehicles into the middle of the table with the intent to seize an area and maintain control. You can safely fire out of its 5 fire ports while retaining the 6" mobility necessary to reposition/realign firing lanes and dodging assault units. You can do a vehicle sprint+disembark for a suicide rush, but you don't have to.

The Vendetta/Valkyrie will both be better suited to either an alpha-strike role, where oftentimes you do lose the unit that you're dropping off, or as a scoring unit delivery truck where you don't really need the unit for your army to succeed, you just need to be able to plonk it onto an objective after you've blown that chunk of your opponent's army off the table.

The Valkyrie with missile pods (so it can move 12" and fire everything) is going to be better suited to a skirmish/harasser role because it's not the massive beatstick of the triple las Vendetta, but it can still be quite deadly, especially against massed infantry. If your primary need is for a transport, with firepower secondary (except against massed weak infantry, like Green Tide Orks), the Valk is probably a better choice than the Vendetta. If your primary need is for cost-effective accurate heavy weapon density with transporting units secondary, then the Vendetta is probably a better choice than the Valk. Triple lascannons can almost always find something useful to shoot at, and for 10 points the two heavy bolters create a real ogre of a gunship.

So if you need a transport that will methodically advance up the field seizing and holding territory, Chimera is probably the way to go. If you need a rapid delivery system for suicide special weapon teams that can retain some harassment utility, Valkyrie will do it best. And if you want a cost-effective gunship that floats along drenching enemy units with firepower, and ability to make it scoring is just a happy coincidence, Vendetta.

Thank you for the tips guys.

If i dedicate 2 veteran squads with melta , into 2 vendetta , is that enough anti tank?

Or a 3rd vendetta with some plasma gun vets ?

Or keep it all melta , and just shoot MC as well?

LunaHound wrote:Thank you for the tips guys.

If i dedicate 2 veteran squads with melta , into 2 vendetta , is that enough anti tank?

Or a 3rd vendetta with some plasma gun vets ?

Or keep it all melta , and just shoot MC as well?

Personally I'd rather give the vets dedicated chimeras and not tie the vendettas to them. That way they can sit in your backfield blasting away.

2 Vet squads with meltas and 2 vendettas is more than enough anti tank. Personally depending on the points you are running, it might be too much. But maybe at 1850 this would be a decent amount or maybe 1500.

Templates don't really help against MC.
A large volume of wounds is needed.
Infantry works best.

Point for point in an army that has Kreed & Kreel Ratlings are a the best deal. It's 10 sniper shots that wound on a 4+ and rend.

Veteran plasma gun squads work great, and can shoot out the back of a chimera. The chimera works better than a Valkyrie because they plasma gunners don't have to disembark.

Heavy weapon teams give a way a lot of VP, but have a lot of firepower at a cheap price. 75 points for 3 AC, or 90 points for 3 missiles. With bring it down they become TL.

Last but not least the Chimera isn't bad against MC. All Nid MC are T6 with a 3+ save so 3 Str6 and 3 Str 5 shots isn't bad. It's not ideal, but it's not bad. It should cause at least 1 wound. Chimeras are really better off shooting at squishier targets, but if you really do need a MC to die they can work for finishing one off.

Vendettas are your best option. Cheap, accurate and with enough firepower to wound and ignore armor saves. I wouldn't use them to transport vets to attack the enemy MCs...that gets them too close to the enemy, where they can get shot/assaulted. Instead, use them as gunships and have them slowly drift around, using their 48" range to the fullest to avoid getting hurt.

There are other, decent, options, but nothing quite as cost-effective as a vendetta. Troop squads with lascannons and plasma guns, blobbed together with command squad giving "bring it down" can be effective, as can an executioner. Vets/platoon command squads with plasma/melta in a chimera can work, too, but risk getting butchered when they get that close. Plus, they only work once the enemy gets close, so they're effectively wasted for a turn or two.

Okee dokee!

Sounds like Chimera will be the transport for the Vets!

I was confused since when Valkyrie / Vendetta first came out , i kept seeing lists posted everywhere that have Veterans been put into those fliers o_o

My vote goes in for the Vendettas. When that fails a Plasma CCS will take whatever MC your looking at down any day of the week. Stick them in a chimera to sit back and dish out orders to your troops until that MC gets close. Then bolt out 12' unload your vets and watch the MC cry.

Take 30+ Meltaguns for giggles. It's doable I'm pretty sure.

Pask in an Exterminator (all heavy bolters) can be fun as well. I've had him take down Daemon Princes (both codexes) in a single round of shooting. The reroll to wound is pretty big. I'll be fielding him against the new Nids soon and expect him to do quite well.
And he's useful against armor, tears through light armor, decent against 13, and can still glance 14 with the autocannons due to his special rules. If you want to spend more points, put on a hull lascannon and he gets even better against armor.

One word: Vendetta.

As for Pask in an Exterminator, "fun" may or may not be the correct word, but it's certainly not cost efficient.

Funny, that's my opinion on Vendettas.....................

If you can find a more cost-efficient source of three TL lascannons on a AV12 vehicle that can outflank and carry 12 models, while not taking up valuable heavy support slots, all for 130 points, I'm all ears.

Autocannons and heavy bolters are available in vast quantities in every FOC slot to bother with a 220+ point tank, IMO.

Well the Vendetta is probably the most underpriced unit in all of 40k. Its not a bad choice for killing MCs but there are things that can kill them faster than the vendetta

Well, there's always plasma spam (whether from veterans or executioners), but when considering points efficiency, and effectiveness at killing both MCs and tanks (points to OP title), the Vendetta is unmatched.

Thing is, the Vendetta cannot kill a Monstrous Creature in a single round of shooting. Best it can do is put three wounds on one. And with IG BS 3, you can't count on getting three hits, even with twin-linked weapons. And that also means it's not moving more than 6". And sorry, but AV 12 that is not going to get a cover save and can't move fast to protect itself cause you want it to shoot, well, it's not going to live long.

Pask in an Exterminator, on the other hand, can kill an MC in one round of shooting. Four ST7 twin-linked BS 4 autocannon shots and 9 ST 5 Heavy Bolter shots. By the odds that's at least 3, maybe 4, AC hits and 6 HB hits, right? Against a T6 MC, that's 2 AC wounds, with a good chance for a 3rd AC wound since he gets to reroll to wound against MCs, and 3-4 more wounds from the HB. That MC better have a 3+ save or it's dead. And with AV 14 front and 13 sides, it's far more surviveable than the Vendetta.

I've used both, and (IMO) in the long run, the Pask Exterminator fills an anti-MC roll better than a vendetta while still maintaining some usefulness against armor. For pure anti-armor use, the Vendetta is probably better. All my opinion, of course, and your mileage may vary.

How often do MCs not have a 3+ or better? And you could almost buy two Vendettas for the cost of a Pask Exterminator.

The Vendetta is hard to hide, but also hard to hide from. It can see over many terrain pieces, and doesn't have to stay stationary. In a typical vehicle-heavy IG list, and using its mobility and superior range defensively, the reduced AV isn't a big deal, especially when you consider the preponderance of lances, deep striking meltas, and close combat.

If I wanted to take an expensive tank to wreck MCs while having some utility vs. armor, I'd take an Executioner with a hull lascannon. Brings the pain vs. MCs, makes a mess of MEQ/TEQs, decent against transport-level vehicles, maintains mobility, and is more survivable in close combat, while costing 15 points less. Or just bring three hydras and drown them in bullets.

That being said, the exterminator turret does look cool, which I guess is what matters at the end of the day.

What is so good about exterminator turret Hydras cant do better and cheaper?

I'd recommend a Leman Russ Punisher with HB sponsors and Pask. You'll be getting about 29 strength 5 shots. With Pask about 21 of those are going to hit. With the rerolling to wound your going to force about 12 saves on a toughness 6 MC. It's expensive at 250pts but can, on average, take down a Hive Tyrant in a single shooting phase.

Admittedly though, you're not going to be doing much of anything against toughness 7 and absolutely nothing against a Wraith Lord.

LunaHound wrote:What is so good about exterminator turret Hydras cant do better and cheaper?

Survive......... That's the biggie for me. AV 14 vs AV 12. I forget, Hydras are open-topped, aren't they?

Also, it can have Pask, BS 4 and reroll to wound.

Don't get me wrong. I've used Hydras, I've used Vendettas. I use the Executioner in nearly every game. Heck, I even run all-infantry on occasion. I mix it up a good bit, keeps my opponents from building custom lists against me. But if I were to build a list and wanted a unit just for anti-MC duty, it would be the Pask Exterminator. I like it.

And terminus, check out the Nid codex, lots of 4+ MCs in there these days.......

Thatguyoverthere wrote:I'd recommend a Leman Russ Punisher with HB sponsors and Pask. You'll be getting about 29 strength 5 shots. With Pask about 21 of those are going to hit. With the rerolling to wound your going to force about 12 saves on a toughness 6 MC. It's expensive at 250pts but can, on average, take down a Hive Tyrant in a single shooting phase.

Admittedly though, you're not going to be doing much of anything against toughness 7 and absolutely nothing against a Wraith Lord.

Here, again, is shown why the vendetta is better. 12 saves against 3+ save is about four wounds, worse against +2 save or tougher targets. For the same price you can get two vendettas and do about the same damage to any target. The only thing the punisher really shines at is killing tough demons, as the invulnerable save is most susceptible to massed firepower.

I don't know why don_mondo thinks vendettas are so vulnerable. They are a high priority target, certainly, but against nids, which have mostly short-ranged weapons, you should be pretty safe. Use the scout move to turbo-boost far away from any big guns they have, then keep drifting 6" away every turn while using your range.