Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

"Platoons are useful in that they allow Guard players to field lots and lots of heavy/special weapons at very cheap prices. An AC/GL Infantry will only set you back 70-odd points, significantly lower than a tooled up Vet squad."

the problem with that is you don't just pay 70 points and get them. you have to take 2 sqds and a Pcs. which can raise the price. not that it's bad, just so someone that doesn't play (Luna) knows. and i know alot of IG players say they take Platoons and Vets. and that all Vet lists aren't the way to go. a couple of games ago i ran a platoon and they got Lashed the whole game, even with an Inquisitor. last time i run an Elite Inquisitor!
since then, i've used all vets and it's worked out really well so far.

i feel like there are lots of good suggestions in this thread. and just because 1 person doesn't like something, doesn't mean that it can't work for someone else.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
The issue with them is that they are a one-trick pony; once they've used their lances they are effectively useless for the rest of the game.

But if they eliminate all of your opponent's MC's, that's one hell of a trick. What else would they NEED to do?

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
I probably wouldn't advocate using them against MCs as they stiill need 5s/6s to wound, and will be turned to mulch for their efforts. I'd much rather use them to counter-charge some Terminators or something after they've hit my lines, as that way I can rely on their lances actually doing some damage.

That's actually a benefit of RR's. If there are no MC's in their army, they are ALSO great against terminators, etc. While every army has some good targets for RR's, very few lists are going to have multiple kinds of targets (SMs have tac squads and termies, but they don't have MC's. Eldar have wraithlords and seer councils, but no real heavy infantry, etc.) As such, targeting RR's is easy, because it rarely, if ever, creates exclusivity problems (like, say, lascannons).

And yeah, they still need high numbers to wound, but you get SO many armor/cover ignoring attacks for SO cheap - the value just can't be beat. If 55 points of riders can't take down the MC, then surely adding a few more riders will do the trick. Plus, assuming that you're combining arms properly, any MCs should be weakened slightly, meaning they really should only have to take off a couple of wounds. In any case, how many 10-wound MCs are you facing anyways? Plus, Uber-MC's are so freaking expensive, easily making it worthwhile to spend two 55 point squads to handle it.

Plus, this is all forgetting a bigger benefit: peace of mind. You throw 10 RRs at something and it dies. Period. Not so with any one other guard unit when MCs are concerned.

alarmingrick wrote:



"Platoons are useful in that they allow Guard players to field lots and lots of heavy/special weapons at very cheap prices. An AC/GL Infantry will only set you back 70-odd points, significantly lower than a tooled up Vet squad."

the problem with that is you don't just pay 70 points and get them. you have to take 2 sqds and a Pcs. which can raise the price. not that it's bad, just so someone that doesn't play (Luna) knows. and i know alot of IG players say they take Platoons and Vets. and that all Vet lists aren't the way to go. a couple of games ago i ran a platoon and they got Lashed the whole game, even with an Inquisitor. last time i run an Elite Inquisitor!
since then, i've used all vets and it's worked out really well so far.

i feel like there are lots of good suggestions in this thread. and just because 1 person doesn't like something, doesn't mean that it can't work for someone else.

I run a mixed force; two Platoons, two Vets. I respect the ability of the Vets to be reliable as/when I need them to kill something, but I also enjoy having the multitiude of heavy weapons in my Platoons. Personally, I think having a mixture of the two is the way to go, as you get bodies on the table, heavy weapons AND the reliability of those 3 BS4 melta/plasmaguns as well.

@ Ailaros

The RR can only kill one MC per game, if they get above average dice rolls. Personally, if fighting 'Nids for example, I'd much prefer to send them at Warriors or Zoanthropes than Carnifexes, purely so that some wounds will get through.

I do not dislike RR at all, in fact, I'm modelling some for my force expansion at the moment, but they duke it out with some real heavyweights in the FA slots and I just think that, especially for a new(ish) player, Vendettas are a) easier to use, b) more survivable (comparatively), c) are useful throughout the entire game and d) bring lots of long-ranged, high S weaponry to the table at a good price.

Truthfully, it kind of depends upon what force you are using as to whether RR will be viable or not. If you have a gunline, by all means include them as a cheap way to inflict some casualties on your opponent's nasty CC units. If you have a mech list, then they are far too squishy to be worth taking; what cannot hurt AV12 wll almost certainly be shooting at them instead.

L. Wrex

Volkov wrote:
The problem I have with platoons is that I cannot rely on them to kill anything. A guardsmen with lascannon has a 8% chance to kill a land raider or battlewagon. 4% if its obscured which any battlewagon is. That is 25 lascannons you need to bring. They are good at slowing the enemy down. Preventing them from getting to your artillery or tanks. If they kill something then yay! good for them, but you can't build a strategy around their lethality. If I am missing something then please by all means enlighten me. (If I run a platoon, I run creed so I make full use of orders)

Well, as far as Vets' lethality, as pointed out above, a PCS can match or surpass them in this task. And anyway, I hardly see Raider Spam anymore, the meta has long shifted from such tactics. Shooting Raiders with lascannons is a fool's errand, anyway, not to mention the gun being overpriced for infantry.

With massed raiders being outdated (and easily dealt with by melta vets/PCS/SWS/manticores), multiple transports and other AV11-12 vehicles are the primary concern. A platoon with 2-3 autocannons and bring it down is quite reliable for busting open transports. Whether they're given GL or plasma, that only improve, then performance against midlevel armor, and the multiple high S shots can in a pinch put wounds onto MCs as well. And those shots plus 13-19 las shots per squad in the blob are pretty effective vs. infantry.

Then then is the defensive benefit, warding of deep strikers/flankers and acting as a stubborn buffer to enemy encroachment on your fire base. And when tooled up and given furious charge or even counter charge I they will wrote most squads in melee (it's especially funny when they wreck Assault Terminators). Hammer of the Emperor > overgrown mutants with thunderhammers.

the problem with that is you don't just pay 70 points and get them. you have to take 2 sqds and a Pcs. which can raise the price. not that it's bad, just so someone that doesn't play (Luna) knows. and i know alot of IG players say they take Platoons and Vets. and that all Vet lists aren't the way to go. a couple of games ago i ran a platoon and they got Lashed the whole game, even with an Inquisitor. last time i run an Elite Inquisitor!

"Have to take" makes it sound like a drawback. A Pcs is probably the most cost-effective unit in the game, and non-mech infantry squads should always be taken in pairs, if not trios.

As for the elite Inquisitor, did you remember the Hierophant? At Ld9, you should be seeing Lash fail a good 1/3 of the time.

With massed raiders being outdated (and easily dealt with by melta vets/PCS/SWS/manticores), multiple transports and other AV11-12 vehicles are the primary concern. A platoon with 2-3 autocannons and bring it down is quite reliable for busting open transports. Whether they're given GL or plasma, that only improve, then performance against midlevel armor, and the multiple high S shots can in a pinch put wounds onto MCs as well. And those shots plus 13-19 las shots per squad in the blob are pretty effective vs. infantry.

Well maybe no one runs it where you are but my LGS its either raider spam or Nob biker/battlewagon spam. Both of which platoons just sit around and scratch their ass

Then then is the defensive benefit, warding of deep strikers/flankers and acting as a stubborn buffer to enemy encroachment on your fire base.

I completely agree this is the reason I still run platoons

The Hydra Flak tank is a nice vehicle, a squad of 3 pumps out a pile of twin-linked shots. The vendetta is nice too though, but it only shoots 3 shots.

if you have both hydras and vendettas you should not have too many problems with light armor or MCs.

I think if you have an IG army that wants to give orders, the PCS is needed, because the big command squad can't do everything (can only give one order I think). Might as well make the platoon itself a good fighter after that, AC Teams are a good addition, and platoon squads should probably have grenades or flamers or meltaguns, whatever they have, max out their weaponry.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
The RR can only kill one MC per game,

How many are your opponents taking? If they load up on more than 3, that means that they're making some serious sacrifices (or you're playing at such a high level that you're going to have to rely on more than just a couple of squads anyways.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
if they get above average dice rolls.

A squad of 10 can reliably put 3 wounds on a T6 MC. If you can't find a single meltagun or lascannon or ANYTHING to ding a single wound off before the charge, then it's not the riders' fault for their failure

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
Personally, if fighting 'Nids for example, I'd much prefer to send them at Warriors or Zoanthropes than Carnifexes, purely so that some wounds will get through.

This actually highlights a strength of riders. If they don't bring MCs, riders are just as effective at wiping out synapse (or stealers!). If your opponent takes both lots of MCs AND lots of synapse, then they've forgot to bring troops, which means they've got bigger problems.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
I do not dislike RR at all, in fact, I'm modelling some for my force expansion at the moment, but they duke it out with some real heavyweights in the FA slots and I just think that, especially for a new(ish) player, Vendettas are a) easier to use, b) more survivable (comparatively), c) are useful throughout the entire game and d) bring lots of long-ranged, high S weaponry to the table at a good price.

A is certainly true, but C is made moot by the amount of damage that they do early game, and D is countered by the fact that, though the vendetta can shoot for more than one turn, it will take the vendetta a long time to catch up to the damage that the riders would have done. The riders can be wiped out once they've charged, but you've got to keep the vendetta alive much longer to do the same amount of damage (thus making B not so strong). This also assumes that once the riders have charged, there is no target for their krak grenades, or that you didn't convert a pair of lancers into meltagunners or something.

That said, yes, they are trickier to use, for sure. But if you learn how to use them properly, you are graced with a better, cheaper unit at your command.

As you said, it does, too, depend on your style. If you want to deepstrike 9 TL lascannons and 3 3x plasma vets then you certainly wouldn't want to bother with riders, but if that's the case, you've chosen plasma spam to handle MCs. As mentioned before, that's just fine. I was just surprised that no one seemed to even consider riders an option given how equal they are to the task.

Depends on the MC. If it's something that strikes before the Riders (Swarmlord with some Lash guard for example), they will all die miserable deaths before getting to swing.