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Here's a question mainly aimed at Tyranid players.

One of the selling points of 40k armies are the legendary generals that command these forces. People pay good money in order to explore the background of Abaddon, Kharn, Eldrad and many others via either codexes or Black Library publications. Liking these characters can influence gamers to invest much time and resources in collecting a related army, and it's a very reasonable and valid starting point.

Except that Tyranids have no literal character.

I understand fully that 'nid players love the insectoid feel of their race, which is filled with an endless hunger and controlled by an unknown intelligence. But does it ever bother Tyranid players that the 'generals' of their forces will never have sagas written about them, that they utterly lack personality and have no hopes and desires in respect to their race? I'm interested to see whether this bothers Tyranid players, or if they see this as a positive point. Has this put other players off collecting Tyranids? Perhaps introducing a notorious Genestealer Magus would be a positive thing? Or is the background to your race totally irrelevant to what you collect?

Debate away...

Nids *DO* have sagas written about them. Old One Eye...

Dashofpepper wrote:Nids *DO* have sagas written about them. Old One Eye...

You're missing the point. Whilst Old One Eye may be defined as a Tyranid character, and a notorious one at that, you'd be pressed to get an opinion out of him regarding the miltary spectrum of the universe.

And the new fluff about THE SWARMLORD is a foot in the door of individual consciousness for the Tyranids. Up until this codex, the "characters" were just better bugs, and I remember a lot of people really liked that. Those same folks were the ones who were kinda miffed that suddenly a Tyranid "hero" was emerging. They still leave it intentionally vague, but obviously Swarmlord is at least a nod to the Nid players who wanted "character" for the army.

I like playing Tyranids precicely because of the reason you stated. They have no character. As their previous books intro stated, they are "cogs in a merciless alien killing machine, from which you can spend their lives as an opposing general would spend ammunition".

I enjoy the cenematic aspect of them, I play them like I would a dungeon master would his monsters...daring the heroes to slay the beast! I enjoy the moments when the victorious Guardsmen kills the carnifex with a lucky shot as much as my Hive Tyrant pulling the legs off a space marine like the wings of a fly.

You can play Tyranids in "the third person" much more easily that armies that have "personalities" and heroes.

Doesnt matter if you kill my army, the rest of the world is dead from the swarm anyway

The main reason I'm into nids is the whole "unrelenting, unforgiving and unstoppable" theme they have going on. I'm a very fluff inspired gamer and when I first contemplated collecting nids I picked up the last codex and saw the rule "Without Number" and it made me picture billions of gaunts running forward all emotionless and desperate to feed. And I actually thought "Who needs powerfull famous warriors when your forces are Without Number?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The main reason I'm into nids is the whole "unrelenting, unforgiving and unstoppable" theme they have going on. I'm a very fluff inspired gamer and when I first contemplated collecting nids I picked up the last codex and saw the rule "Without Number" and it made me picture billions of gaunts running forward all emotionless and desperate to feed. And I actually thought "Who needs powerfull famous warriors when your forces are Without Number?"

Anti-Mag wrote:Here's a question mainly aimed at Tyranid players.

One of the selling points of 40k armies are the legendary generals that command these forces. People pay good money in order to explore the background of Abaddon, Kharn, Eldrad and many others via either codexes or Black Library publications. Liking these characters can influence gamers to invest much time and resources in collecting a related army, and it's a very reasonable and valid starting point.

Except that Tyranids have no literal character.

I understand fully that 'nid players love the insectoid feel of their race, which is filled with an endless hunger and controlled by an unknown intelligence. But does it ever bother Tyranid players that the 'generals' of their forces will never have sagas written about them, that they utterly lack personality and have no hopes and desires in respect to their race? I'm interested to see whether this bothers Tyranid players, or if they see this as a positive point. Has this put other players off collecting Tyranids? Perhaps introducing a notorious Genestealer Magus would be a positive thing? Or is the background to your race totally irrelevant to what you collect?

Debate away...

My disagreement with the point that tyranids lack character aside. If it was the case how does that mean "Tyranid players lack character"? You haven't seemed to continued that point in your actual post outside of the title.

While the background characters may be a selling point for some players, I would like to point out that there's a significant group of players who consider the presence of named characters an annoyance and unnecessary presence in the game.

The counter question is: "What business do Marneus "Blue Mary Sue" Calgar, Kharn "How do I make an unmlaut on this keyboard" the Betrayer, and Eldrad "Am I still dead?" the Farseer have on the local gaming tables?"

The shoe horning of cloned special characters into the Tyranid background is not necessarily progress.

The opportunity to use a characterful Genestealer Magus might make me consider playing 'stealers...

solkan wrote:While the background characters may be a selling point for some players, I would like to point out that there's a significant group of players who consider the presence of named characters an annoyance and unnecessary presence in the game.

The counter question is: "What business do Marneus "Blue Mary Sue" Calgar, Kharn "How do I make an unmlaut on this keyboard" the Betrayer, and Eldrad "Am I still dead?" the Farseer have on the local gaming tables?"

The shoe horning of cloned special characters into the Tyranid background is not necessarily progress.

This. Solar Macharius was a fun guy, great to have at parties, and had ZERO BUSINESS being a usable character. Ditto Calgar and Eldrad - the greatest minds and most potent commanders available are not likely to show up to a mild skirmish; they ought to have better stuff to do.

Tyranids are a little hard to have continuing characters/heroes, don't you think, based off the fluff as well as just the idea of the creatures? It makes sense for more humanoid armies to have famous heroes and generals, but for a hive-minded race of insectoid monsters? They don't even have individual intelligences for the most part, how can they have "character" except as a collective horde? I'm fine with how they're presented and the faceless, gibbering masses is how they should be. The super Nids are a little out of place, IMO.

Bio-Electronic communication commence:
We Hive mind nodes no longer need emotion. We have evolved beyond the need for mental restrains. All bio-matter must enter digestion pools.
communiction termination

whatwhat wrote:

Anti-Mag wrote:Here's a question mainly aimed at Tyranid players.

One of the selling points of 40k armies are the legendary generals that command these forces. People pay good money in order to explore the background of Abaddon, Kharn, Eldrad and many others via either codexes or Black Library publications. Liking these characters can influence gamers to invest much time and resources in collecting a related army, and it's a very reasonable and valid starting point.

Except that Tyranids have no literal character.

I understand fully that 'nid players love the insectoid feel of their race, which is filled with an endless hunger and controlled by an unknown intelligence. But does it ever bother Tyranid players that the 'generals' of their forces will never have sagas written about them, that they utterly lack personality and have no hopes and desires in respect to their race? I'm interested to see whether this bothers Tyranid players, or if they see this as a positive point. Has this put other players off collecting Tyranids? Perhaps introducing a notorious Genestealer Magus would be a positive thing? Or is the background to your race totally irrelevant to what you collect?

Debate away...

My disagreement with the point that tyranids lack character aside. If it was the case how does that mean "Tyranid players lack character"? You haven't seemed to continued that point in your actual post outside of the title.

It wasn't an actual point. It was a pun.

It always kinda bothered me that Eldrad stepped away from his divining the future of the entire Eldar race and unending efforts to influence fate to stave the extinction of millions of his kindred for just a bit longer in order to personally take part in the very front lines of a battle against 1000 points of Imperial Guard.

Likewise, I tend to feel that Abadon, architect of 13 Black Crusades as well as countless other insidious plots to advance the will of The Black Legion felt the most efficient use of his time was to go play whack-a-mole with 1000 points of Tau.

I like the Tyranids because there’s an explicit explanation as to why the special characters are likely to appear on a battlefield – because the Hive Mind is using biomass and readily available DNA to construct a biological entity to achieve its goals. I tend to think of the Tyranid special characters as more of a 0-1 Tyranid unit more than a unique special character.

I tend to disdain special characters. It’s a personal choice. I like to think of 40k as a modern incarnation of Chess rather than rockem-sockem-robots surrounded by Lego people.

I know exactly what your saying an thats what put me off nids. I love the rules, the models are reasonable but I can't get the feel of them. It's not the lack of named characters but that I can't think of my own background including a rising commander and his bodyguard ect.. I have no problem not including SC as I never use them anyway but I just find it hard to relate to tyranids as they are mindless. I know a lot of people who are put of by this although I am sure for some people it is an upside.

IMO, the lack of character.. is their character... at least thats how I see it.

I have always felt that in 40K too much was put into the characters. I'd rather have an unstoppable horde over a undying Vampire man. The idea of these bugs being recreated or just gaining fear for a particulary bad version of one is appealing. The idea that this one unstoppable general has been through 800 wars and never died is meh. I'm tired of superheroes and unstoppable characters. I play for the troops and the strategy of the game.

I agree with those who find the Tyranid alien nature to be part of the appeal. They don't need characters because they are, as a whole, just that - a single being. All that they are - the ravening will, the lightning adaptability, the psychic horror - is pitted against these enemies that are simply insignificant compared to them. What is Eldrad compared to the Hive Mind? How can any single being compare to this vast alien entity?

That's part of the fun - in some ways, feeling like you are operating on a different scale than the simple warriors involved in the skirmish itself.

Personally I'm not at all interested in special characters, except as a way of adding special rules or something to an army.

The idea of a single person being able to influence a conflict taking place across thousands of worlds, millions of light years and millenia of time, is ridiculous.

whatwhat wrote:
My disagreement with the point that tyranids lack character aside. If it was the case how does that mean "Tyranid players lack character"? You haven't seemed to continued that point in your actual post outside of the title.

It was a deliberately inflammatory title in order to draw attention to the thread.

apwill4765 wrote:

It wasn't an actual point. It was a pun.

Thankyou

Some good points here. I feel as though some Tyranid players feel like I'm attacking them; far from it. If you go back and read my original post you'll see that I'm open to all sorts of suggestions, and have no preferece for gamers who are for or against adding another dimension to the Tyranid race. I must also make it clear that I have not read the recently released codex so I may have missed out the odd bit of incriminating fluff.

What is clear is that Tyranid players are passionate about their race. I personally do not think it would be harmful to have a novel based around the schemes of a magus, as I see them as individuals rather than an unthinking drone. If anything, I think it could reinforce the monstous nature of regular Tyranids, but obviously (as the above answers show) this would not be for everyone.

In our sagas, we eat heroes for lunch

On a serious note, I see Tyranids as a force of nature, a big super organism. No need for the liver to call itself a hero. Players still needing a hero can now take the swarmlord.

The lack of special characters and the mindless nature of tyranids is their point of difference from the other races. This isn't for everyone, but not every race has to appeal to everyone, that's why there's so many races.

If they give them characters with speech and personality it'd border a lil' close to the Zerg.

You want a Kerrigan?

I think it would be good if Tyranids were made more similar to other 40K armies, so there would be less variety in the game.