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In light of all of the why can't there be female space marines, I've been thinking of running a sisters army, but with men. My first thpught was remembering that Inquisitor henchmen can take power armor, but I couldn't find the model for them. my next thought was scouts, but they only have a 4+ save. Empire fantasy models wouldn't fit the 40k grim dark, and a simple head swap with male heads would be a little too slaaneshi for me. Thoughts?

Space Marines without the shoulderpads and helmets should do it, using whatever regular heads you like in place of helmets.

And not to be rude, but perhaps you would get more answers on the painting and modelling subforum?

Maybe they should be these guys...

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Frateris_Templar

sexiest_hero wrote:In light of all of the why can't there be female space marines, I've been thinking of running a sisters army, but with men.

Whilst I@m sure most people would be cool enough to play said army once done, the reason the SoB are all female is (in fluff terms) precisely because the Ecclesiarchy was banned from keeping "men under arms" at all.

reds8n wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:In light of all of the why can't there be female space marines, I've been thinking of running a sisters army, but with men.

Whilst I@m sure most people would be cool enough to play said army once done, the reason the SoB are all female is (in fluff terms) precisely because the Ecclesiarchy was banned from keeping "men under arms" at all.

O reds8n what has drawn you to this backwater place,o mighty admin!
I dislike the fact that the ban didn't apply to the females(it did in someway,but Thor sensed that Ministorium needed some kind of force).

IvanTih wrote:

reds8n wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:In light of all of the why can't there be female space marines, I've been thinking of running a sisters army, but with men.

Whilst I@m sure most people would be cool enough to play said army once done, the reason the SoB are all female is (in fluff terms) precisely because the Ecclesiarchy was banned from keeping "men under arms" at all.

O reds8n what has drawn you to this backwater place,o mighty admin!
I dislike the fact that the ban didn't apply to the females(it did in someway,but Thor sensed that Ministorium needed some kind of force).

Anyways, the point is that the army would be illegal. Sure, you could run it so long as WYSIWYG was followed, but the fluff-nazis would never play it. I wouldn't because I find the role of PA'd Church-goers is filled quite well by Black Templar.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:

Anyways, the point is that the army would be illegal. Sure, you could run it so long as WYSIWYG was followed, but the fluff-nazis would never play it.

You say it is illegal and then in your very next sentence you contradict that. There is nothing illegal about an army that uses wysiwyg ,and fulfills the specific tournaments requirement for % of GW parts used (some have no requirement).

I also find your comment about BT a bit funny. You are commenting on there being too many PA'd churchgoers in the game when you're playing space marines? They are the poster-boys for redundant armies with simple swaps of colors on the armor and slight changes in doctrine and organization.

I personally would love to play a army decked out like this, maby assume some were lost to the warp instead of being detroyed and just recently reapeared?

Halsfield wrote:

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:

Anyways, the point is that the army would be illegal. Sure, you could run it so long as WYSIWYG was followed, but the fluff-nazis would never play it.

You say it is illegal and then in your very next sentence you contradict that. There is nothing illegal about an army that uses wysiwyg ,and fulfills the specific tournaments requirement for % of GW parts used (some have no requirement).

I also find your comment about BT a bit funny. You are commenting on there being too many PA'd churchgoers in the game when you're playing space marines? They are the poster-boys for redundant armies with simple swaps of colors on the armor and slight changes in doctrine and organization.

Illegal in the sense that the Imperium would never allow it, is what I meant. I see the mix up.

And yes, I agree the army is allowed with WYSIWYG though, as I said, I'd never play it.

And I never once said there were too many PA'd churchgoers. I said it's filled by BT and there is no need for PA'd WH whom are also male.

I do enjoy the personal attack though. Maybe staying on topic would be a better idea?

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:Illegal in the sense that the Imperium would never allow it, is what I meant. I see the mix up.

And yes, I agree the army is allowed with WYSIWYG though, as I said, I'd never play it.

And I never once said there were too many PA'd churchgoers. I said it's filled by BT and there is no need for PA'd WH whom are also male.

I do enjoy the personal attack though. Maybe staying on topic would be a better idea?

Uh... how did he personally attack you?

Anyway, there's plenty of ways to justify this army from a fluff perspective. Maybe a far-flung and radical sect of the Imperial Cult keeps male militants despite the ban. Maybe there's an obscure beurocratic loophole that allows men to serve the Ecclesiarchy if they're infertile (they don't legally count as men!). Maybe some planet on the edge of the Imperium has simply never received the news that it's illegal - I wouldn't put it past the Imperial beurocracy to keep planets out of the loop for thousands of years! Failing all those, just say it's a pre-Vandire army. People play pre-heresy armies all the time, they never have a problem getting games.

Oh, and then all those reasons give you an easy narrative for games - all the other Imperial armies are going to kill you for heresy!

That's what 40k is about at the end of the day. It's a very loose setting that gives the freedom to the players to be imaginative with their armies. It isn't Star Trek. There is no hard canon saying what you can and cannot do with 100% certainty. There are so many planets, so many different societies and alien races, so many ways the warp can transform people or alter time, that everything has happened somewhere, somewhen.

Female Space Marines and male Sororitas? Why not add Chaos Grey Knights, Gungans and Napoleonic Guard in Volkswagens to your army? Fits the theme perfectly!

Why do people insist on making up things which have no place in the background when there is a ton of unexplored, and totally exploitable areas of the Imperium?

The Ecclesiarchy for example wanting to get away from the power of the Adminstratum, why not create an army of Power Armoured warriors that work for the Adminstratum instead?

"But the ecclesiarchy is banned from having men under arms!"



"I AM NO MAN!"

Kroothawk wrote:Female Space Marines and male Sororitas? Why not add Chaos Grey Knights, Gungans and Napoleonic Guard in Volkswagens to your army? Fits the theme perfectly!

This

Gogsnik wrote:Why do people insist on making up things which have no place in the background when there is a ton of unexplored, and totally exploitable areas of the Imperium?

and this

I agree, why do people insist on changing things that IMO need no change at all (except for story advancement but who isn't barking up that tree?)

If they were renegade then it would fit.

An apostate cardinal and a renegade inquisitor supplying their elite troops with illegally obtained power armour.

Acts of faith are now gifts of chaos, etc.

Do you not get tired of the Chaos did it!!!11ONE!! excuse? It's tired, cliche and a poor narative device to excuse something that either has no place within the background or has been stated as not exsting ever (femarines) or no-longer existing (Frateris Templar).

You could easily have male and female warriors in power armour by saying that they are an elite Arbites unit. That wouldn't go against the background and if well written would likely enhance it.

Still why bother trying to do that when you could just say Chaos did it, so nur.

But their weapons wouldn't fit the established fluff for arbites and why would arbites have acts of faith?

Scott-S6 wrote:But their weapons wouldn't fit the established fluff for arbites and why would arbites have acts of faith?

Arbites also use Bolters, not just Shotguns.

Power Maul: following the old sci-fi trope of taking medieval weapons and making them sound 'tech-y'.

I mean, when you come right down to it, the field that cuts through armour would be more deadly than whatever object it encases, so why not lumpy sticks?

Orkestra wrote:Power Maul: following the old sci-fi trope of taking medieval weapons and making them sound 'tech-y'.

I mean, when you come right down to it, the field that cuts through armour would be more deadly than whatever object it encases, so why not lumpy sticks?

IIRC, Power Mauls are more like "shock" mauls than actual Power Weapons. They use a less powerful version of the field to paralyze and disable a target with an electrical shock from the field, at least in later rule sets.

That said, you're right, the way Power Weapons read, it's the field more than the actual weapon that does more damage.

Gogsnik wrote:Do you not get tired of the Chaos did it!!!11ONE!! excuse?

No. That's what it's there for.

40k is a setting, and as a setting it exists to provide a bunch of excuses for endlesly varied armies to fight one another in endlessly varied narratives. There are medieval feudal worlds alongside planetwide technocratic hives, utopian meritocracies opposing dogmatic apocalyptic religions, comedic aliens and xenophobic psychopaths, humans, elves, robots, ninjas, mutants, every historical army from Earth's past, vampires, werewolves, and everything else in between!

40k is just a set of excuses so that whatever you plonk down on the table, you can come up with a narrative for it being there, fighting whatever was plonked down on the opposite table edge. One of those excuses is 'chaos did it'.

And you can't call this idea on lacking imagination. It's better than the vast majority of players, who just pick up a codex and paint their minis whatever colour the guy on the front cover was.

Rube wrote:And you can't call this idea on lacking imagination. It's better than the vast majority of players, who just pick up a codex and paint their minis whatever colour the guy on the front cover was.

Actually, I can. Especially since this idea is what caused Sisters of Battle to even be put into existence. That aside, considering a Codex is estblished fluff and people like to play armies because of what they already are, I see nothing wrong.

Rube wrote:40k is a setting

My point exactly, it is a setting which provides gamers with a framework of do's and don't's and then unknowns to allow players freedom to create.

as a setting it exists to provide a bunch of excuses for endlesly varied armies to fight one another in endlessly varied narratives.

The major races are endlessly varied not the armies which have defined horizons.

There are medieval feudal worlds alongside planetwide technocratic hives, utopian meritocracies opposing dogmatic apocalyptic religions, comedic aliens and xenophobic psychopaths, humans, elves, robots, ninjas, mutants, every historical army from Earth's past, vampires, werewolves, and everything else in between!

Again, this is exactly my point. When there are so many unexplored avenues open to create new and unque human characters and armies why must people use the same tired excuse over and over and over and over and over to insert female marines or brothers of battle, two of the handful of things which are clearly earmarked as impossible within the Warhammer 40,000 universe?

One of those excuses is 'chaos did it'.

Exactly, one reason but it is the go-to reason to allow female marines and brothers of battle. It was Chaos, it was Slaanesh, it was Fabius Bile, it was a rogue Inquisitor/Tech Priest, blah blah blah.

And you can't call this idea on lacking imagination.

Yes I can and I did

40k is a setting where almost anything is possible except female Space marines and male Sororitas. The intention of the OP is to intentionally break the few rules of the setting, so he can play another Space Marine army in 5th edition, but with a 3rd edition Codex.

Kroothawk wrote:40k is a setting where almost anything is possible except female Space marines and male Sororitas. The intention of the OP is to intentionally break the few rules of the setting, so he can play another Space Marine army in 5th edition, but with a 3rd edition Codex.

Coming Late 2010: Codex Inquisition.

I doubt that idea will hold up.

I think it is Grey Knights without Inquisition, so WH Codex will be legal for another year.

Gogsnik wrote:My point exactly, it is a setting which provides gamers with a framework of do's and don't's and then unknowns to allow players freedom to create.

Again, this is exactly my point. When there are so many unexplored avenues open to create new and unque human characters and armies why must people use the same tired excuse over and over and over and over and over to insert female marines or brothers of battle, two of the handful of things which are clearly earmarked as impossible within the Warhammer 40,000 universe?

Not every player is trying to be imaginative (although as I previously said, it's no less imaginative than picking up a codex and playing the army on the front cover). I'd play female Space Marines because I think they're cool (the same reason anyone collects an army), I'm not trying to win creativity browny points with people on the internet. That's why the idea keeps coming up - it's really cool to some people.

Besides, they aren't impossible. There's any number of reasons they can logically exist, such as;

Gogsnik wrote:It was Chaos, it was Slaanesh, it was Fabius Bile, it was a rogue Inquisitor/Tech Priest, blah blah blah.

Rube wrote:Maybe a far-flung and radical sect of the Imperial Cult keeps male militants despite the ban. Maybe there's an obscure beurocratic loophole that allows men to serve the Ecclesiarchy if they're infertile (they don't legally count as men!). Maybe some planet on the edge of the Imperium has simply never received the news that it's illegal - I wouldn't put it past the Imperial beurocracy to keep planets out of the loop for thousands of years! Failing all those, just say it's a pre-Vandire army.

On female Space Marine; It was a geneseed mutation. The women themselves came from a planet where a common mutation allowed them to receive geneseed. New and experimental technology devised by Mechanicum Genetors allows women to be Space Marines (they've messed with the geneseed before, see the cursed founding). The women receive hormonal treatment to partially change their sex. Blah blah blah.

And the final get-out that GW themselves specifically invented and use for instances such as this - the canon is propoganda and misinformation where needed. Those bits of the fluff that earmarked it as impossible? Not true. It's superstitution. They tried creating a female Space Marine this one time, and it totally worked.

What bugs me about this is you're berating the guy for no reason. You can find his idea cliche and his excuses unimaginative, but you don't have to play against him. He wasn't asking if the idea was plausible, or for your approval. You didn't like the idea (not just you specifically, I'm talking in general), and decided to derail the thread with irrelevant nitpicking and obscure White Dwarf fluff.

He asked for our opinion, we gave our opinion.
And many people don't like the background being violated for no other reason than just to violate it.
And a Y-chromosome can mutate a very long time without becoming an X-chromosome. Read the fluff about Space Marines carefully, then you understand.

Kroothawk wrote:He asked for our opinion, we gave our opinion.

He asked for advice on how to model such an army. That was all.

Kroothawk wrote:He asked for our opinion, we gave our opinion.
And many people don't like the background being violated for no other reason than just to violate it.
And a Y-chromosome can mutate a very long time without becoming an X-chromosome. Read the fluff about Space Marines carefully, then you understand.

41st century................makes me wonder "Who the thought up the idea that even in the 41st century they couldnt make a modification that would allow female marines", oh well.

But on topic, if you change the 1st and last words around, and take out the "of" you get "battle brothers", Space Marines, why dont you just use them instead of gettiong the fluffpuppies mad?