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Is this the future of TTG then ?

Bastion has released Ex illis, a new miniature game that uses a computer as the gamemaster that makes operational decisions. No rulebook is needed; all the information the players need is available digitally. Ex illis also features a unique business model, in which retailers receive a portion of any sales made direct-to-consumer as a result of their introduction of new players to the game.








Ex illis, a “fact-based historical fantasy game” is set in 1309, with fantasy elements added. Three SKU types are available: the Ex illis Starter ($69.95), which includes 54 minis, a presentation booklet, installation DVD and printed game board; Ex illis Integral ($159.95), which includes the 54 minis, booklet, DVD, a plastic modular game board, and 20 tiles with a solid clipping system and a transportation system; and additional units ($25) released monthly with flexible factions, so all minis can be bought by all players. A game can be played in 45-60 minutes.



Stores receive a variable percentage, ranging from 40% to 50% (20% to 30% for online retailers), of sales made directly to customers they initiate into the game. The percentage depends on the degree of support the store gives the game, with the number of active players the most important variable. Bastion is selling direct to retailers instead of through distributors at this point.

linky

I've next to no idea how attractive (or otherwise) to retailers.. ?

On youtube, I saw a video of a demo explaining how everthing works and the gaming system. WHAT A MESS!!! It was so confusing. Everything was on the computer. EVERYTHING!! You practically don't need the miniatures and just play it on the computer to make things easier. The mechanics were just silly and didn't make sense. I'll be surprised if stores will want to encourage people to play the game since its so confusing.

Most stores I've seen don't have computer access for their customers as they're focused on selling tangible goods. Plus that price point to enter the game? Wow. Add the "feels like Amway/Pyramid marketing" to it and forgettabout it.

I had the beta and I will agree it is a mess but it had some potential. I mean you look at it this way its like having your army rule book and your main rule book all electronic and does the thinking for but there in lies the problem. It does the thinking for you kinda takes the fun away to me. That is why I only played a few games and have never went back since. At least I got a nice terrain board I can use for some 40k love

They were at GenCon last year, It's a neat idea(if you're a techno geek), but it won't fly or sell.

1. You need a smart phone with a large-ish touch screen(at least, that's what they said there). I know I'm not going to buy one for gaming(or any other reason, to be honest, I like my phone to be relatively simple and don't need that extra crap) and I doubt many other people will either.

2. The stores need a computer/screen for every single table they plan to play it on. That means, in addition to the actual stock for the game, stores need to invest a couple hundred dollars for every table they have. That's money a lot of stores just don't have.

3. The models ARE entirely redundant. Their position on the table is meaningless and has no effect at all on the digital aspect of the game(where all the rolls, movement tracking, and rules take place). Basically, you're playing a computer game while pushing around models(NOT while playing a TTG, as the table has NO effect of the game since the system doesn't use cameras or table sensors).

As I said, I thought it was a neat idea, but I have no want in the game. Too much investment just to start and the models are sub-par currently compared to GW, PP, and Rackham. They're about on the level of DnD Minis detail wise(and don't come painted), at least the ones they brought to GenCon.

No offense meant to you, Rs8n, but asking if this is the future of TTG is somat akin to asking if DoW is the future of 40K.

Makes the Warhammer hobby sound cheap
The board might have been useful, if it weren't subdivided in so many parts, making distance guessing easy.

They where at our local game store to run some demos.

I wasn't too keen in trying it out as the salesmen where rather aggressive. Essentially I revolves around units in huge grids (think 6" x 6"), and you telling your iPhone what you want to do. The iPhone calculates all of the results and keep tracks of your moves.

The problem with the whole thing was the obvious question. If the iPhone keeps track of everything, why have miniatures on the table to begin with?

Not to mention the miniatures where about the quality of mage knight. Overall, nobody at our store had any remote interest in it.

My hubby and I saw the box for this at a GS up in Jacksonville, we spent a good few minutes trying to figure out WTF it was. The packaging gives no information at all about the game, aside from random fluff, marketing speak, and buzz words.

Glad to see a thread on dakka showing what it is.. seems like a rather silly idea.

Cyporiean wrote:My hubby and I saw the box for this at a GS up in Jacksonville, we spent a good few minutes trying to figure out WTF it was. The packaging gives no information at all about the game, aside from random fluff, marketing speak, and buzz words.

Glad to see a thread on dakka showing what it is.. seems like a rather silly idea.

I sorta had the same reaction, Cyporiean. The box art sorta looked hot, but I couldn't understand any of it from the description on the box. So, I put it down and backed away slowly... Glad I did, as the whole thing sounds really daft.

Why all the gimmicks? The game has a real perchent for really just sticking the knife in and being overy obvious as far as turning a potential player into a mark.


I can understand trying to intergrate a computer game into a miniatures game, and in this readers opinion it would be a heck of alot better to do this with a skirmish game, instead of trying to make yourself into "The next big thing" when no one even knows who you are.

Looking over the hot mess that it turned into on You tube, and adding the silly mantra of a...."fact based historical fantasy WTF".


I would like to see some nice board sections for other games, such as Pulp City, Mordhiem, or Necromunda. I could also see doing something like this on DVD, or computer for Space Hulk, where you have some effects, some radio chatter from the vox box, or some cutaway scenes when you start taking casualties, or kills from the genestealers, but to take a whole game and essentially just play it on the I phone... Why bother with the miniatures, then, and as horrid looking ones as those are?

Why don't these tools take Idea and the Computer one step farther and use it in playing the game, like in a real time stratagy game over the net, and the players take part in the game over the net, and have movies and info about the game available to interact with other players, or upload and download within the game, as in an interactive battle?

Chalk this one up to the little idea that coulda. Just a bad salesmens wet dream.

Yeah, I think we're still waiting for the technology needed to make this idea work.

We need something actively involving the miniatures, e.g. a teeny electronic id marker in the base of each minature, and an intelligent game board that can tell where each minauture is. Currently that would be ludicrously expensive - ten years from now it may be cheap and practical and we'll laugh at the olden days when gamers had to look at paper rule books and roll dice.

The guys over at the Youtube channel: BeastOfWar did some unboxing videos to see whats inside all the Big Exillis Boxes. They said that they haven't looked at the rules, But by the look of the minis, It looks to be an gonna awesome game. Then they posted a video saying that a guy from Bastion Games is gonna come their studio and give them a demo of how the game works and how to play. Anybody with questions put in the comments and the guy just might answer. The guys were giving it high praises saying "its gonna be awesome!!" "I'm sure people are gonna get this game" They practically said "With great Minis, comes great rules" Even when they didn't look at the rules. No video ever came out about the Exillis demo and the questions being answered. Later they gave all the Exillis stuff they had away to one lucky winner. Wonder what changed their mind?

haha must have gotten the sponsorship to say 'its dope!' then when the sponsorship ended - 'peace out!'



Eyed the game, but never comprehended it. haha.

I have 2 copies of it, got them cheap. Betas fom last year's Gen Con.

Have not pulled it out of box, but may use table as an alternate board for my game table.

Minis are very detailed.

Interesting idea but sounds like its been poorly executed.

What I would be interested to see like Clang would be using something like Microsoft surface technology where the board is the touch screen and the miniatures are tracked by the screen through some form of coding on the base.

Welcome to 2 weeks ago

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/284027.page

gnumish wrote:Interesting idea but sounds like its been poorly executed.

What I would be interested to see like Clang would be using something like Microsoft surface technology where the board is the touch screen and the miniatures are tracked by the screen through some form of coding on the base.

There is a Dungeons and Dragons program in development on the Microsoft Surface table:
http://gizmodo.com/5385625/dungeons--dragons-on-the-microsoft-surface

Too bad that with something like this you'll always have a flat table. It's just some models on a flatscreen. But who knows what the future holds? I sure wouldn't mind a physical 3d gaming table with holographic additions for explosions, range measuring and such!

Warboss Narznok wrote:The guys over at the Youtube channel: BeastOfWar did some unboxing videos to see whats inside all the Big Exillis Boxes. They said that they haven't looked at the rules, But by the look of the minis, It looks to be an gonna awesome game. Then they posted a video saying that a guy from Bastion Games is gonna come their studio and give them a demo of how the game works and how to play. Anybody with questions put in the comments and the guy just might answer. The guys were giving it high praises saying "its gonna be awesome!!" "I'm sure people are gonna get this game" They practically said "With great Minis, comes great rules" Even when they didn't look at the rules. No video ever came out about the Exillis demo and the questions being answered. Later they gave all the Exillis stuff they had away to one lucky winner. Wonder what changed their mind?

We have spent alot of time with the game (and have recorded an interview with the Lead Game Developer)

We have been busy with 7DoS so we haven't put out any review material on the game itself yet.

"With great Minis, comes great rules" - What we actually said is that poor minis are hard to fix but the potential of rules as updateable software is easier to fix (potentially) - Quotes out of context are never cool mate

Anyway To give a bit of Insight on Where we are with Ex-Illis

1) Like everyone when we first saw it we didn't get it at all - but being in the business were in we do try not to take a GIANT gak on somthing until we have atleast given it a fair chance )

2) The Miniatures are actually very sharp (most of them - some in the starter box are a bit weak) obviously not going to appeal to SciFi only players as its an Alternate History/Fantasy Setting

3) The fluff behind the game is tricky to get into but has the potential to satisfy the mature players (if your a young buck with a hot head its not for you) - When it started to finally click for us it started to feel like the movie CONSTANTINE set in the MEDIEVEL Ages

4) Gameplay feels really wierd for the first game or two because you feel like the game is in control of you and not the other way round... BUT after some games when we started to get to grips with the units its started to feel more like we were taking control.

5) The most interesting thing to come out of it was myself and darrel played our very first game (took about 1 hour) and we played all the way through without a single argument or rules debate lol (Which is new for us) there was nothing to argue about the software took care of the rules. So to make the point we picked up a box and played it without having to read a rulebook - this may count for somthing with players wanting to introduce new gamers to the hobby.

6) There is a bit of a disconnection between you and the minis at times but we fed back some suggestions to bastion on this - more to come on that

7) Movement is handled using zones not the traditional WYSIWYG - we thought this would be a big draw back but now were undecided because on the plus side you cannot cheat and it simplifys things a little.

8) The turn sequence is very strange as its not YGIG (you go i go) it takes into account alot of factors - We needed to take a bit of time to become accostomed to that but it adds another tactical layer.

9) You will not lose a game because you forgot to do somthing - which is nice because alot of us lose because we forgot to move or shoot a unit lol

10)The Meta game is very well thought out the whole army building approach is very intelligent (but hard to grasp at the start) - more on this when coverage starts

Will you like it - its not for every one, we have had difficulty with our classification of the game as it sits in a trinity between Wargame, Board Game and Video Game - Its basically a disruptive product in the wargaming market that will be challenging to accept for purists.

HOW DOES IT FEEL

If you play it un assisted and dont delve into the mechanics of the game its not a very good experience - BUT the fact you can just delve in with no real reading is a very interesting thing and one we feel has big potential as the software updates roll out to lead you through it better.

Coverage on Ex Illis will start soon where we'll be starting from the basics to show what we have discovered and give our take on it all, your welcome to give it the once over if any part of the game interest you.

Anyway thats our 2c on where we currently are with it.

BTW Bastion Supplied the prize - our copies are still here

Would be interested to hear the opinions of anyone who has actually played the game to see where they stand on it.

@ BEASTSOFWAR

I had spent time in the beta for Ex Illis and I have to say that agree with your 6th bullet point. I really didnt even feel the need to try and paint, let alone assembly these things as to me they were just "there" they didnt server a real purpose to the game in my eyes. I think Bastion is on to something but I also think they are WAY ahead of the curve. Playing War/Board/Card Games is really the only "Analog" form of entertainment that I still do and damn it I dont want your peanut butter in my chocolate just yet!!! Give it another 6 or 7 years and I think the time will be ripe to roll something like this out but right now its just to early. I look forward to your review but I put the game away and even re-purposed some of the minis for some conversions and really dont think I could every get back into it.

If you don't mind the question, just what DO the figures on the table do? Serve as a physical reminder of about where things are?

I dunno, I guess I just don't see why it isn't being played on a TV, or a nice tablet PC or two. Perhaps even a small projector set up above the table...

Hmmm I like to see more feedback about the Exillis game though, but my personal thought about this game is that it seems you don't need minis to play it. they make you buy the minis to play because of they product code you have to enter to activate troops. but if there were no minis, it would be a flash game on miniclip.com or a $5 game you buy at office max.
without the minis it would be a whole lot different. it seems confusing because of maybe the lack information of how to play and without rulers or dice, it doesn't seem like a wargame. my personal opinion.

Wehrkind wrote:If you don't mind the question, just what DO the figures on the table do? Serve as a physical reminder of about where things are?

I dunno, I guess I just don't see why it isn't being played on a TV, or a nice tablet PC or two. Perhaps even a small projector set up above the table...

Yes they really are just reminders of where things are but you pretty much are clicking through so much I might as well just ignore the figures and play the game which if I am going to do that I want something with better graphics and sound effects and such. Just too much of a video game with minis as distractions

Its neither a great videogame or a great tabletop wargame, kudos for exploring something new though... this combo takes away the best of videogames and wargames by mixing them both.

Want to fix it?
Shoot a little lower with the "Oh its soo koool!!! " retoric and let the game sell itself. If it sucks, then let go of a turd, regroup, and reshoot. Its no big deal.

I see a great detriment to the game by the way that it is being handled at this point in time. I do not see the standard of set up a game, tool some rules, playtest it, and replaytest it, then come out with a few demos. All I see are wizz bang, and then WTF.

How about trying for quality, instead of quntity? Get that technocrap under control where it is actually a part of the game, aside from a distraction or alternative game, and let the tools enhance the product, instead of trying to shoot the moon with a boss idea that is really, really badly constructed.

1. What does the DVD/computer disk, the Iphone application, and the computer screen have that can accent the game, instead of muddy the water?

It has an access to material. You can use the internet to accent and enhance the fluff, Downloads, adventure settings in a world, use the tools of the tech to add spice to the sauce, instead of saucing the whole show with a bunch of alternate hoopla that can be done on the table. We do not need a computer generated board, if you have it already on your home table in miniature.

2. WHAT do the miniatures bring to the game?

The miniatures can actually be the catylist to the game for the fluff, the rules, the mechanics can then be enhanced by the computewr downloads, or database, or the can use the internet to "Grow" the character of the figures, or add skills, attacks, etc. ( BAsicly using the internet application as a living game addition for the units on the table.)

ON to the add ons.

YOU have a basic board that comes in tight little 6X6 squares. Use the internet for the add ons, such as city maps, graveyard maps, etc. that you download, along with the info for the units, that you go buy at your local game shop, or order on line.

The Internet can have an area for the devil guys, have a little fluff, and added materials for the game, new and upcoming units, with a couple of insiane CGI movie cut ins to push the game to the next level, actually giving you reason for the wizz bang, and the units.

ALL we see at this time is an overly exuberant "HEY BUY THIS STUFF!!!" and nothing in terms of actual game to speak of.

Even the You Tube game had the guy going all over the map, instead of a basic, no nonsense- "You do this first, then you do this, then you do this, and you use this for that."


I am intregued by the application of the internet materials to the game, and I have seen a real future in your game set in -

Playing games over the net.

Using the internet to accent the world with the adding in of some CGI movie cut aways to add into the realism of the game.

Using the internet application for a repository of technical and fluff material that can be used, added to, and upgraded as a game goes on.

I DO NOT NEED

The internet to play the minis game.

Someone to tell me its cool when it is garbled and needs work.

A gobblygook conversation on youtube that disintigrates and loses my interest after 20 minutes of cross conversation.

A game that claims to be the be all end all, and then farts.

HARSH? hell yes.

YOU are asking for 79 bones for a game. YOU take the beating when you opened the mouth and shoved that at my attention.

I like what I see from this game in some levels, and I can see one heck of a future if you get that crazyness under control.

What is the fluff?

3 words description. All that alternate fantasy historical blah blah blah doesn't tell me anything. I have Warmachine, 40K fantasy, historicals, AEWW2. SOTR, Pulp city, battletech, starship troopers, judgedredd, hordes, flames of war, battlefleet gothic, necromunda, mordhiem, gorkamorka, Spinespur, historicals, models, superfigs, and a whole lot more. WHAT do you give me for 79 bones?

I'm a gamer by curse, so sell me something in basic, no crap description with a minimum of overselling the hype, and sell me a product.
WHY should I play? WHAT is good about the game? HOW is this game different then other games?

I like the interaction of the tech and the minis, but I want more info so I can make a serious decision of if I want to even look at this any more then a "ho hum".

I agree with Grot 6, I don't need a computer to play a miniature wargame, i want dice and rules. and for 79 dollars for that set, i say its not worth it.

Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either!

My kid was into Heroscape when he was younger, this looks like a fancier version of that game. I think it's probably ok to add some electronic elements to a board based strategy game (remember Electronic Battleship?), but when you get it to the point that it dosn't realy need the minis (or players, for that matter), then I'm gonna predict a big flop. I think that, by and large, tabletop wargames need to stay the way they are. I play because they are fun, and I like the minis. There are a number of good video strategy games that have that "tabletop feel", (just downloaded "toy sodiers" to my xbox360) and I like those games too. I think the problem comes when you try to blend the two. Until they come out with something as cool as the holographic chess game that Chewbacca and R2D2 played in the first Star Wars film, I will kep playing traditional tabletops, and tabletop style video games seperately.