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Here is the updated 'ard boyz list with some of your inputs. Really helpful and insightful advice. Now for some play testing. Any more help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Also added reasoning’s for each unit and how they should in “theory” work against opponents I have seen here in northwest (predominantly MECH marines, MECH Chaos, MECH Guard). Again, play testing is needed but I value all your inputs.

HQ:
Ghaz’kull Thraka – 225 > nuff said

HQ:
Big Mek – 105 > self explanatory for BW spam, will roll with burna wagon
Kustom Force Field
Burner

ELITES:
(15) Lootas – 225 > for low armor mech

ELITES:
(15) Burnas – 225 > rolling in BW with Big Mek

Elite:
(10) Kommandos – 215 > I just can’t quit them (for now)
+Snikrot
+ (2) Burna Boyz

TROOPS:
(8) Nobs Squad – 445 > needed for BW spam, not fond of MANZ. dropped eavy armor added another PK
Waaagh! Banner
(3) Big Choppas
2 x power Klaw
1 x Boss Pole
Cyork Bodies
Painboy w/grot orderly
Dedicated Transport: BATTLEWAGON
1x Big Shootas
Deffrolla
Boarding Plank
Red Paint

TROOPS:
(20) Ork Boyz (Shootas) - 165
Nob w/ Power Klaw, and Bosspole
1x Big shootas


TROOPS:
(18) Ork Boyz (Choppas) – 148
Nob w/ Power Klaw, and Bosspole

TROOPS:
(12) Ork Boyz (Slugga&Choppas) – 152 > capture objectives?
Nob w/ Power Klaw, and Bosspole
Red Trukk

TROOPS:
(12) Ork Boyz (Slugga&Choppas) – 152 > capture objectives?
Nob w/ Power Klaw, and Bosspole
Red Trukk

TROOPS:
(10) Gretchin + runtherder – 40 > makes sense

HEAVY:
BATTLEWAGON – 125
1x Big Shootas –
Deffrolla
Boarding Plank
Red Paint

HEAVY:
BATTLEWAGON – 125
1x Big Shootas
Deffrolla
Red Paint
Boarding Plank

HEAVY:
BATTLEWAGON – 125 > Burna Wagon
1x Big Shootas
Deffrolla
Boarding Plank
Red Paint


Total = 2485pts

So now what to do with the 15 points? Drop Boss poles? Add more wargear to wagons? I’m going try this list this weekend and see how it goes. Not completely sold on this list just yet.

i would get some boarding planks on the trukks.

i am a fan of Kommandos and Snikrot but think you could use some more anti armour. would also think about some burnas for any nids that may show up.

I would like to see the deployment. We should get some games in. Are you gunna be around on friday?

Ramora wrote:I would like to see the deployment. We should get some games in. Are you gunna be around on friday?

Bah deployment will be easy, only 6 units start on the board...that is if I deploy them.

Nah not this Friday, where were you last Friday? I was almost tempted to play frank...almost.
I'll be in next Friday though 4 sho.

Deff Rollas on all wagons. It is unacceptable to not take now that we finally got a ruling.

The complex nobs should probably have more PKs, 1 is never enough.

The Lootas are going to be left alone while everything else speeds off into the battle. 2 units together can probably hold out ok but it does create a bit of a gap in your forces. If you could somehow free-up a wagon and trade one unit for burnas you will be able to nuke any infantry unit short of TH/SS Terminators in a single turn.

Kommandos are fine for pushing your opponent's deployment closer to the centre, but the unit is effectively a kamikaze.

I was working on terrain. Thats too bad. I don't know if I'm gunna be there this friday either but more then likely I'll be there next friday too so we can throw down then. yeah but how would you deploy them? would you have all the vehicles close enough for the save or would you spread out a bit?

Nob squad needs more Pk as has been said, I also think your short 1 piece of war gear on individualisation.

Also with three squads of 20 boys and a 400 odd point sink, you don't _need_ the trukk boys they could be something else that would draw fire away from Bw's

I hope I'll get to comment again soon

I'm going to make this short instead of writing a book. Feel free to check out some of my other posts, which are incredibly long winded, giving explanations and persuasions.

1. Battlewagons should have 1x Big shoota, 1x Deffrolla, 1x Boarding Plank, 1x Grot Riggers, 1x Grabbin' Klaw. Ramming doesn't always kill stuff, especially skimmers that can dodge on a 3+ and stop you in your tracks; the grabbin' klaw makes sure you can boarding plank it next turn, riggers keep you from getting stopped in your tracks. I take armor plates too; 10 points turns those stunned into shakens and keeps you moving, which is the whole point of your list.

2. Lootas should be in units of 5 or units of 15. Nothing between. At 2500, I prefer units of 5, because LoS is going to be atrocious as you move up the field, negating the ability of some of your Lootas to shoot pretty continually.

3. Big mek needs a powerklaw, not a burna. When the unit in there gets out, he stays in and serves as a mobile vehicle killer via powerklaw+Boarding Plank

4. Kommandos: After long use, I retired them. 85 points for Snikrot, and he's the only one you really need. Drop them.

5. Instead, get some Deffkoptas. You have NO fast attack choices. You should have a couple of Deffkoptas with twin-linked rokkits, maybe a squadron of warbuggies with twin-linked rokkits. I take 2-3 units of 1 each deffkopta with twin-linked rokkits and a buzzsaw. They scout 24" pre-game, and if I go on turn1, they're looking for vehicles to shoot and assault on turn1; keeping things away from my battlewagons.

6. 'Eavy armor on the nobs is redundant. That's 40 points that you could spend on another nob. You've got a 5++/4+FNP, and 4+ cover most of the time that they're out of the wagon if you play them well. Diversify them. My 8 nob configuration:
1. Painboy
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Bosspole + Kombi-Rokkit
4. Powerklaw + Kombi-Rokkit
5. Powerklaw + Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw + Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big choppa + Ammo Runt
8. Big Choppa + Kombi Rokkit + Ammo Runt

That's three kombi-rokkits and three ammo runts to reroll them if they miss.

7. You're making a mistake filling up your wagons with 20 boyz. What happens when the wagon Ghazghkull is in gets blown? Or the nobs? You need a couple spots free to allow HQs to stay mobile as long as a single wagon is alive.

8. You have Ghazghkull. You can probably do without the bosspoles.

9. A squad of 10 gretchin and a runtherder is 40 points. And they are scoring. The worst part of mechanized orks is having to leave a trukk boy squad in your rear to defend an objective. Get yourself a 40 point gretchin unit.

10. You don't have an adequate answer to Tyranids, who are supremely mid-tier to low-tier and no decent ork should EVER lose a game to them. They're I4 to your I2 and I3 with the swarms, and their MCs will shrug off your boyz and MC killy your nobs; you'll kill 1, maybe two per turn if you multi-assault, but at 2500 points, expect to see 5-9 MCs. Burna boyz are the solution to both of these problems. A battlewagon with 15 burna boyz in it.

That's enough for you to chew on.

Dashofpepper wrote:4. Kommandos: After long use, I retired them. 85 points for Snikrot, and he's the only one you really need. Drop them.

6. 'Eavy armor on the nobs is redundant. That's 40 points that you could spend on another nob. You've got a 5++/4+FNP, and 4+ cover most of the time that they're out of the wagon if you play them well. Diversify them. My 8 nob configuration:
That's enough for you to chew on.

So I reckon you finally understood our point that Cyborgs are better than Eavy armours, and kommandos arent worth their points?

Davicus...

I haven't used nobs in a long time, or needed them. I'm not convinced that a diversified nob unit is really the best use of points in my list (or anyone's) and I'm not sure that Snikrot is permanently retired. I have Deffkoptas in the meantime to offset his loss, and deffrollas being FAQed certainly helped with the decision.....it'll take time to sort it out.

Dashofpepper wrote:Davicus...

I haven't used nobs in a long time, or needed them. I'm not convinced that a diversified nob unit is really the best use of points in my list (or anyone's) and I'm not sure that Snikrot is permanently retired. I have Deffkoptas in the meantime to offset his loss, and deffrollas being FAQed certainly helped with the decision.....it'll take time to sort it out.

Don't worry. At least you have made the first step by advocating Cybork upgrade over Eavy armour.
Take your time, it's a good start nevertheless :-). If you need to be dead sure about Cybork over Eavy armour, I ll be glad to convince you on the merits :-).

I don't need convincing on cybork over 'Eavy armor. I've long since changed my viewpoint on that. Last year in fact.

What I'm *not* convinced on is that the addition of a deathstar unit (diversified nobs) to an ork army list is really necessary or a good use of points. I'm still working on this one through play-testing.

Well, then that's great. Because I almost got a shock when you said Eavy over Cybork in this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/267602.page . I m glad you ve seen the light :-).

As for your qn on whether nob squads are worth a place in your list, my answer to you is take them if you need to spam a 4th Battlewagon :-).

Wow lots of great advice, especially when you the take the time to step back and have someone else give your list a look-see. Many flaws with that original list.

@Dash - Great insight man, and thanks for the help. I have read a lot of your post and as always very interesting stuff with good info for Ork players. Surprised I didn't see you at Adepticon. Was looking for the pink Waaagh! lol However, I can't completely agree on the Kopters. Last GT I was at they had some crazy KP mission and those individual Deffkoptas cost me a victory. Maybe I should have played them better for a KP scenario but since then I can't even look at them without disdain.

@ChrisCP - What do you suggest I have instead of trukk boyz to draw fire away from BW?

@Ramora - A formation I have been toying with could in theory, be able to to gain maximum benefit with proper placement. In theory...

Instead of Trukks use the FA magic of Warbuggies or Deffkopta, and I'd bump your Kommandos upto 15 total

I understand the worry yo have with Koptas, especially for KP games. One way to deal is always throw them at somehting they'll kill or outflank with them for a change, kepp them hidden until your opponent is being forced to deal with the nasty stuff

Hmm intresting. I'll keep them in mind for next few weeks. Anybody else have any thoughts?