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Kdash wrote:
The problem I’m starting to see with VV, is, now they feel like a suicide Raven Guard unit at best, a turn 3 distraction at worst.

One of my ideas since the FAQ has been a large SftS presence with essentially lascannon and scout/biker unit support.

SftS section would be:
Shrike
1x 5 Vanguard Vets (2 double chainswords, 3 double LC… Now thinking maybe 5x plasma + chainsword might be better)
2x 5 Reivers
Terminators (2 with TH/SS, 3 double LC)
Tyberos
Librarian with JP, Stormbolter and Staff
1x 7 Scouts with knives and pistols.

Essentially 7 CP to do it, but, the more I look at it, the more I’m starting to think it feels very expensive and I’m not sure it’ll make as much of a dent as I want it to.

Sure, it can wipe out 3-4 screening units and maybe a character or 2, but, then I can’t help but think the VVs, Scouts and probably the Terminators get wiped out straight away, leaving me with just 3 characters and a couple of Reivers in their lines alongside mainly just bolter shots.


The issue then becomes one of a beta strike weakness, not having first turn, facing 200 ork boyz, or not killing enough DE Venoms first turn to give me a chance to keep up with them.

This idea is born from thinking about how to attempt to counter a Guard/Tau gunline and the new DE. Should be reasonable against Eldar now as well, again if with 1st turn.

Whats is the acronym "SftS" mean?

 Dynas wrote:

Kdash wrote:
The problem I’m starting to see with VV, is, now they feel like a suicide Raven Guard unit at best, a turn 3 distraction at worst.

One of my ideas since the FAQ has been a large SftS presence with essentially lascannon and scout/biker unit support.

SftS section would be:
Shrike
1x 5 Vanguard Vets (2 double chainswords, 3 double LC… Now thinking maybe 5x plasma + chainsword might be better)
2x 5 Reivers
Terminators (2 with TH/SS, 3 double LC)
Tyberos
Librarian with JP, Stormbolter and Staff
1x 7 Scouts with knives and pistols.

Essentially 7 CP to do it, but, the more I look at it, the more I’m starting to think it feels very expensive and I’m not sure it’ll make as much of a dent as I want it to.

Sure, it can wipe out 3-4 screening units and maybe a character or 2, but, then I can’t help but think the VVs, Scouts and probably the Terminators get wiped out straight away, leaving me with just 3 characters and a couple of Reivers in their lines alongside mainly just bolter shots.


The issue then becomes one of a beta strike weakness, not having first turn, facing 200 ork boyz, or not killing enough DE Venoms first turn to give me a chance to keep up with them.

This idea is born from thinking about how to attempt to counter a Guard/Tau gunline and the new DE. Should be reasonable against Eldar now as well, again if with 1st turn.

Whats is the acronym "SftS" mean?

Strike from the Shadows. The Raven Guard stratagem.

Strike from the Shadows - the Stratagem, Raven Guard only

It’s a good one indeed.

Kdash wrote:
The problem I’m starting to see with VV, is, now they feel like a suicide Raven Guard unit at best, a turn 3 distraction at worst.

One of my ideas since the FAQ has been a large SftS presence with essentially lascannon and scout/biker unit support.

SftS section would be:
Shrike
1x 5 Vanguard Vets (2 double chainswords, 3 double LC… Now thinking maybe 5x plasma + chainsword might be better)
2x 5 Reivers
Terminators (2 with TH/SS, 3 double LC)
Tyberos
Librarian with JP, Stormbolter and Staff
1x 7 Scouts with knives and pistols.

Essentially 7 CP to do it, but, the more I look at it, the more I’m starting to think it feels very expensive and I’m not sure it’ll make as much of a dent as I want it to.

Sure, it can wipe out 3-4 screening units and maybe a character or 2, but, then I can’t help but think the VVs, Scouts and probably the Terminators get wiped out straight away, leaving me with just 3 characters and a couple of Reivers in their lines alongside mainly just bolter shots.


The issue then becomes one of a beta strike weakness, not having first turn, facing 200 ork boyz, or not killing enough DE Venoms first turn to give me a chance to keep up with them.

This idea is born from thinking about how to attempt to counter a Guard/Tau gunline and the new DE. Should be reasonable against Eldar now as well, again if with 1st turn.

If your using jump packs with SftS why are you hitting screens you have 12inch move and reroll charges with shrike. Your fly so can ignore enemy models.
Use scouts to create the pocket for SftS drop your jump packers in and turn 1 smash face or force them to move, ball up or runaway from your SftS deployment and punish them with dreadnaughts and devs from your deployment zone.

Ice_can wrote:

Kdash wrote:
The problem I’m starting to see with VV, is, now they feel like a suicide Raven Guard unit at best, a turn 3 distraction at worst.

One of my ideas since the FAQ has been a large SftS presence with essentially lascannon and scout/biker unit support.

SftS section would be:
Shrike
1x 5 Vanguard Vets (2 double chainswords, 3 double LC… Now thinking maybe 5x plasma + chainsword might be better)
2x 5 Reivers
Terminators (2 with TH/SS, 3 double LC)
Tyberos
Librarian with JP, Stormbolter and Staff
1x 7 Scouts with knives and pistols.

Essentially 7 CP to do it, but, the more I look at it, the more I’m starting to think it feels very expensive and I’m not sure it’ll make as much of a dent as I want it to.

Sure, it can wipe out 3-4 screening units and maybe a character or 2, but, then I can’t help but think the VVs, Scouts and probably the Terminators get wiped out straight away, leaving me with just 3 characters and a couple of Reivers in their lines alongside mainly just bolter shots.


The issue then becomes one of a beta strike weakness, not having first turn, facing 200 ork boyz, or not killing enough DE Venoms first turn to give me a chance to keep up with them.

This idea is born from thinking about how to attempt to counter a Guard/Tau gunline and the new DE. Should be reasonable against Eldar now as well, again if with 1st turn.

If your using jump packs with SftS why are you hitting screens you have 12inch move and reroll charges with shrike. Your fly so can ignore enemy models.
Use scouts to create the pocket for SftS drop your jump packers in and turn 1 smash face or force them to move, ball up or runaway from your SftS deployment and punish them with dreadnaughts and devs from your deployment zone.

Ideally, they wouldn't be hitting screens, they would be moving in to tie up things like dakkabots and tanks etc - however, against armies with a lot of units/models (orks, guard, cultists, and tau + necrons to a lesser extent) the chances of getting into those pockets gets slimmer and slimmer. When jumping over screens you only really tend to have a 2" wide strip of space to jump into, if they are on the standard 25mm base. Given deployment and enough units, people can still make that initial charge extremely unlikely. Best option isn't really to go "over" the screen, as to sometimes use the movement to just go around it.

Alternatively, you try to bait the screen setup with your scout deployment in an attempt to open up gaps in the backline to drop into straight away.

EDIT (bit in red) - I've just done some quick checks as it got me thinking about jump packs and getting over screens.

Essentially, there is only -ONE- scenario that allows you to move your jump pack marines over a screening unit.
Your marines are on 32mm bases (1.5")
Screening unit is on 25mm bases (1")
Screening unit has the maximum 2" spread between each model AND they are in a straight line.

If these 3 points are not met, you will not have enough space after you finish your move to be outside of the 1" requirement. This is because you would need a minimum move distance of 12.5" to give you the required space. (9" to get to front of unit. 11.5" to get the back of your base to the back of theirs. 12.5" to get the 1" bubble.)

If the screening unit is spread 2" between each model, then you just have enough space to make the move. However, you do need to plan this by setting your unit up so that each is 2" apart and lined up in the centre of the 2" screening gaps.

If you're against an army on 32mm bases, you can't make the move at all.

How about using SftS with Lias, Reivers and VV? With Lias' extra inch of move, Reivers should be getting just in range of their flashbang grenades and stun a unit or two. VV then charge without suffering Overwatch or tie up yet another unit while the Reivers charge the unit(s) they stunned. Coupled with a solid firebase and some QRF units, maybe this can be a new way to play the Raptors CM.

 jpwyrm wrote:
How about using SftS with Lias, Reivers and VV? With Lias' extra inch of move, Reivers should be getting just in range of their flashbang grenades and stun a unit or two. VV then charge without suffering Overwatch or tie up yet another unit while the Reivers charge the unit(s) they stunned. Coupled with a solid firebase and some QRF units, maybe this can be a new way to play the Raptors CM.

Lias gives a bonus to charge distance as well. Would couple well with Scouts that have the CCW loadout.

Kdash wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Kdash wrote:
The problem I’m starting to see with VV, is, now they feel like a suicide Raven Guard unit at best, a turn 3 distraction at worst.

One of my ideas since the FAQ has been a large SftS presence with essentially lascannon and scout/biker unit support.

SftS section would be:
Shrike
1x 5 Vanguard Vets (2 double chainswords, 3 double LC… Now thinking maybe 5x plasma + chainsword might be better)
2x 5 Reivers
Terminators (2 with TH/SS, 3 double LC)
Tyberos
Librarian with JP, Stormbolter and Staff
1x 7 Scouts with knives and pistols.

Essentially 7 CP to do it, but, the more I look at it, the more I’m starting to think it feels very expensive and I’m not sure it’ll make as much of a dent as I want it to.

Sure, it can wipe out 3-4 screening units and maybe a character or 2, but, then I can’t help but think the VVs, Scouts and probably the Terminators get wiped out straight away, leaving me with just 3 characters and a couple of Reivers in their lines alongside mainly just bolter shots.


The issue then becomes one of a beta strike weakness, not having first turn, facing 200 ork boyz, or not killing enough DE Venoms first turn to give me a chance to keep up with them.

This idea is born from thinking about how to attempt to counter a Guard/Tau gunline and the new DE. Should be reasonable against Eldar now as well, again if with 1st turn.

If your using jump packs with SftS why are you hitting screens you have 12inch move and reroll charges with shrike. Your fly so can ignore enemy models.
Use scouts to create the pocket for SftS drop your jump packers in and turn 1 smash face or force them to move, ball up or runaway from your SftS deployment and punish them with dreadnaughts and devs from your deployment zone.

Ideally, they wouldn't be hitting screens, they would be moving in to tie up things like dakkabots and tanks etc - however, against armies with a lot of units/models (orks, guard, cultists, and tau + necrons to a lesser extent) the chances of getting into those pockets gets slimmer and slimmer. When jumping over screens you only really tend to have a 2" wide strip of space to jump into, if they are on the standard 25mm base. Given deployment and enough units, people can still make that initial charge extremely unlikely. Best option isn't really to go "over" the screen, as to sometimes use the movement to just go around it.

Alternatively, you try to bait the screen setup with your scout deployment in an attempt to open up gaps in the backline to drop into straight away.

EDIT (bit in red) - I've just done some quick checks as it got me thinking about jump packs and getting over screens.

Essentially, there is only -ONE- scenario that allows you to move your jump pack marines over a screening unit.
Your marines are on 32mm bases (1.5")
Screening unit is on 25mm bases (1")
Screening unit has the maximum 2" spread between each model AND they are in a straight line.

If these 3 points are not met, you will not have enough space after you finish your move to be outside of the 1" requirement. This is because you would need a minimum move distance of 12.5" to give you the required space. (9" to get to front of unit. 11.5" to get the back of your base to the back of theirs. 12.5" to get the 1" bubble.)

If the screening unit is spread 2" between each model, then you just have enough space to make the move. However, you do need to plan this by setting your unit up so that each is 2" apart and lined up in the centre of the 2" screening gaps.

If you're against an army on 32mm bases, you can't make the move at all.

You can just move to outside 1 inch then declair charge over the intervening screen
So 8 inch plus 7inch average charge range, should have a reroll charge range or CP standing by to make that roll but an 8 inch charge gets you 11 inchs into their deployment zone

 Bubbles wrote:
As I mentioned in my original post, I have little interest in buying Space Marine tanks. That being said, I still understand the value of their roles and I may just have to bite my tongue and pick some up. Missing out on transportation and tank mounted weaponry isn't doing me any favors.

Ah, I think I missed that bit about vehicles.
They are all pretty much based on the Rhino chassis so if you do not like the look of that, it does hurt things a bit.
We all have our own strategies and esthetics.

I'm not too interested in flyers either. Again, I realize their importance and that not taking them out can leave a hole in my army, but unfortunately I'm stubborn about space marine vehicles and what I like aesthetically lol

Well, you are playing into a fairly normal mindset i think phrased "boots on ground", seeing massed marines hoofing it on the tabletop is no small thing either.

I realize that's probably annoying to read when I've come here asking for suggestions on what to add to my army and I'm basically telling you that I don't want a large portion of what the SM has to offer...

It does limit things a bit but your ARE focusing on the most iconic aspect of the army.

but I will do a serious reconsidering of the tanks

Some nod of the head to transport will be desireable or you may have to lean more on your "underperforming" jump troops.

I have considered a whirlwind for a little extra cheap firepower.

The good thing with it is you can "hide it" somewhere on the table and try not to look at it.
Think of it like orbital strikes.

What are your thoughts on a Land Raider this edition?

The Land Raider is not ideal as a troop transport in this edition especially when we deploy prior to moving.
It IS tough to kill but is an aweful lot of points... you have been warned.
So you would want to consider it for the weapons it has, over what it transports.
It is the ultimate in protection to anything you want to get across the table but they can't do much till deployed.
Some have suggested transporting a regular squad for tank "bubble-wrap" or convenient objective steal / hold unit of opportunity.
You already have scouts to do some of that work for you.
I have always been partial to the Land Raider Crusader since that is an awful lot of dakka and it can survive the short range shooting and I field Black Templar so my squads are huge on occasion.
The Stormraven has pretty much become the flying version of the same vehicle and would not get tied down in combat that is a big consideration.
The "normal" Land Raider brings a longer reach to the table and more lascannons if you are in need of them.
The Redeemer I have, has not seen much combat in 8th yet and I find surprisingly little written about it so I guess it is unknown at this time.

I'm definitely down for running a mixed force. I've never really liked shoehorning my army into one role. Combined arms does look great on the table!

I think I laughed a little when you mentioned the Tank-bustas... in a battlewagon those guys are death on wheels within 24".
My poor Dreadnaught and Predator tank did not know what hit them.

I am trying to think how your esthetic can be appealed to.
How do the skimmers or bikes look to you?
Another option is you can pay points for some terrain to place, maybe there is something you like there.
It is a hobby so it is nice to fit in a reasonable strategy and get the look you like.

Again, thanks for the suggestions!

Happy to try to help, this is fun for me.
I suspect you already know what you want but need to bounce some ideas around.

Now I just need you to talk to my wife to get her into 40k.
Her main interest is Korean soap operas, though I did get her to play Lord of the Rings a couple times.
Anyone who plays Orks is a keeper, my best friend has an insane horde of them and he keeps customizing stuff... he is a little bit nuts in the right way.

Ice_can wrote:

Kdash wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Kdash wrote:
The problem I’m starting to see with VV, is, now they feel like a suicide Raven Guard unit at best, a turn 3 distraction at worst.

One of my ideas since the FAQ has been a large SftS presence with essentially lascannon and scout/biker unit support.

SftS section would be:
Shrike
1x 5 Vanguard Vets (2 double chainswords, 3 double LC… Now thinking maybe 5x plasma + chainsword might be better)
2x 5 Reivers
Terminators (2 with TH/SS, 3 double LC)
Tyberos
Librarian with JP, Stormbolter and Staff
1x 7 Scouts with knives and pistols.

Essentially 7 CP to do it, but, the more I look at it, the more I’m starting to think it feels very expensive and I’m not sure it’ll make as much of a dent as I want it to.

Sure, it can wipe out 3-4 screening units and maybe a character or 2, but, then I can’t help but think the VVs, Scouts and probably the Terminators get wiped out straight away, leaving me with just 3 characters and a couple of Reivers in their lines alongside mainly just bolter shots.


The issue then becomes one of a beta strike weakness, not having first turn, facing 200 ork boyz, or not killing enough DE Venoms first turn to give me a chance to keep up with them.

This idea is born from thinking about how to attempt to counter a Guard/Tau gunline and the new DE. Should be reasonable against Eldar now as well, again if with 1st turn.

If your using jump packs with SftS why are you hitting screens you have 12inch move and reroll charges with shrike. Your fly so can ignore enemy models.
Use scouts to create the pocket for SftS drop your jump packers in and turn 1 smash face or force them to move, ball up or runaway from your SftS deployment and punish them with dreadnaughts and devs from your deployment zone.

Ideally, they wouldn't be hitting screens, they would be moving in to tie up things like dakkabots and tanks etc - however, against armies with a lot of units/models (orks, guard, cultists, and tau + necrons to a lesser extent) the chances of getting into those pockets gets slimmer and slimmer. When jumping over screens you only really tend to have a 2" wide strip of space to jump into, if they are on the standard 25mm base. Given deployment and enough units, people can still make that initial charge extremely unlikely. Best option isn't really to go "over" the screen, as to sometimes use the movement to just go around it.

Alternatively, you try to bait the screen setup with your scout deployment in an attempt to open up gaps in the backline to drop into straight away.

EDIT (bit in red) - I've just done some quick checks as it got me thinking about jump packs and getting over screens.

Essentially, there is only -ONE- scenario that allows you to move your jump pack marines over a screening unit.
Your marines are on 32mm bases (1.5")
Screening unit is on 25mm bases (1")
Screening unit has the maximum 2" spread between each model AND they are in a straight line.

If these 3 points are not met, you will not have enough space after you finish your move to be outside of the 1" requirement. This is because you would need a minimum move distance of 12.5" to give you the required space. (9" to get to front of unit. 11.5" to get the back of your base to the back of theirs. 12.5" to get the 1" bubble.)

If the screening unit is spread 2" between each model, then you just have enough space to make the move. However, you do need to plan this by setting your unit up so that each is 2" apart and lined up in the centre of the 2" screening gaps.

If you're against an army on 32mm bases, you can't make the move at all.

You can just move to outside 1 inch then declair charge over the intervening screen
So 8 inch plus 7inch average charge range, should have a reroll charge range or CP standing by to make that roll but an 8 inch charge gets you 11 inchs into their deployment zone

While I agree that you have the option to charge over the screen, it is easy enough to deny the extra range into the deployment zone for most armies. Not all armies will be able to backline and screen on the deployment edge vs this tactic, but a fair amount will be able to.

Screens still kill Deep Strike, as you've said. Using ITC terrain rules on a less-than-mobile army, you can drop your jump pack units at the bottom floor of a ruin, then move 12" towards them and charge on the next turn. Even if they have mortars you're saving on a 2+.

Usually I charge the screen and the big guns together, getting in melee with both, but focusing my attacks on the screen. This kills the unit that would rapid fire my face off the next turn while preventing the big guns from shooting (unless they have fly in which case everything changes.)

Salamander players what units are you including and loving in your lists?

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Salamander players what units are you including and loving in your lists?

At minimum you will need to Devastator squads with Heavy Bolters and ML with the Cherub to take advantage of that silly FAQ that just happened. Gotta spam them Mortal Wounds.

Hi there!

I've been looking to get back into the hobby, I haven't played 40k since... well, since the plastic marines were "a new thing".

I bought some new stuff and together with my old models I came up with this list, and I'm wondering if it's good enough to venture out there and not get my gak totally pushed in:


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [53 PL, 1000pts] ++

+ HQ [9 PL, 143pts] +

Captain [5 PL, 80pts]: Power sword [4pts], Storm bolter [2pts]
. Warlord: Adept of the Codex

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
. Lieutenant [4 PL, 63pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun [3pts], Teeth of Terra

+ Troops [15 PL, 270pts] +

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine [39pts]
. Space Marine Sergeant [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [38pts]: Lascannon [25pts]

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine [39pts]
. Space Marine Sergeant [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [38pts]: Lascannon [25pts]

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine [39pts]
. Space Marine Sergeant [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [38pts]: Lascannon [25pts]

+ Elites [7 PL, 134pts] +

Dreadnought [7 PL, 134pts]: Assault cannon [22pts]
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter [42pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

+ Heavy Support [8 PL, 127pts] +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 127pts]
. Space Marine Sergeant [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [34pts]: Plasma cannon [21pts]
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [23pts]: Heavy bolter [10pts]
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [34pts]: Plasma cannon [21pts]
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [23pts]: Heavy bolter [10pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [14 PL, 326pts] +

Razorback [5 PL, 128pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Storm bolter [2pts], Twin lascannon [50pts]

Razorback [5 PL, 120pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Twin assault cannon [44pts]

Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

++ Total: [53 PL, 1000pts] ++

Everything fits in transports, so just 4 drops, generally a gunline with some lascannons and dakka. If things get close, Dreadnaught and characters can try to do some chopping. Would be grateful for thoughts and tips.

Honestly that’ll do fine for you to try out the game. The only thing I’d change is to give the teeth of terra to your captain instead of lieutenant. And I think your dread should only have one storm bolter.

You’ll play some games, mainly lose but get to see how stuff works, and then you can start making informed decisions about what’s to change. But it’s an ok starting point.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Salamander players what units are you including and loving in your lists?

At minimum you will need to Devastator squads with Heavy Bolters and ML with the Cherub to take advantage of that silly FAQ that just happened. Gotta spam them Mortal Wounds.

I tried that the day the FAQ came out on both the HB & ML Devs. Did ok, but then again my target was a Riptide with a ton of drones and my rolls sucked nearly all game. Worth having the models for 2k games, I guess lol.

Edit: Pair it with a Libby for a decent MW output.

For salamanders, dreads still kick teeth in. Ironclad with dual heavy flamers, las/ML dreads hanging out the back. And when they get into combat, all 4 attacks have a good chance of going straight through.

Also consider tacticals for your troops with the combi/special weapon load out. Dual melts and plasma will clear targets with a good rhino rush. Bike mounted special weapons are great too, and small assault squads with plasma pistols are decent, because that's three shots and you can charge, utilizing the rerolls for whatever weapon the Sarge has.

I'd give mention to assault centurions as well. Low number of attacks with melta/ siege drills works well for sallys. Also them or aggressors with flamers and Vulkan + the stratagem make for some good flamer loving. Just make sure you have a way to get them close.

Thanks @Mandragola.

Ok so the new FAQ has rendered my fire raptor far less attractive, meaning I've got to come up with new lists for two upcoming tournaments.

Tournament 1 is the GT finals. This is going to mostly use the new rules but not the 0-3 limits, deployment rules or points cost changes. So I could use my fire raptor, if I built the thing in time, but only for one weekend. Worth it? I think not. The tournament will use 5 of the eternal war missions from chapter approved - and no maelstrom - so moving about the place isn't a particular priority.

On the plus side, the new DW index FAQ now lets leviathan dreads take 3 HK missiles. That seems to turn an already-good unit into a seriously badass ragebot. I randomly have a couple of storm cannons in my bitz box, so I've ordered a leviathan body (along with Rogal Dorn for my 30k guys, who I needed anyway and got me to free postage).

Anyway here's a list. The characters go with the intercessors in one repulsor, and the other is full of hellblasters.

Battalion: + 5CPs

Primaris Captain with Power Fist (Warlord) 106

Primaris Lieutenant 74

Scout Squad (with shotguns, not that it matters) 55

5 Intercessors with grenade launcher and sword 95

7 Intercessors with grenade launcher and Sword 131

Vanguard: + 1CP

Primaris Librarian 101

Hellblaster Squad 165

Hellblaster Squad 165

Leviathan with storm cannons, flamers, 3 HK missiles 327

Repulsor with frag launchers 348

Repulsor with frag launchers 348

Auxiliary Detachment: -1 CP

Culexus Assassin 85

Tournament 2 is the London GT. This will use the points changes, 0-3 limit and new tactical reserves rules. This doesn't affect me all that much, but changes the meta immensely.

Weirdly, I have to submit this army list 2 weeks in advance, whereas I can just show up to the GT finals with it. So I have to get this nailed down sooner.

I reckon I don't need psychic defence so much, so the Culexus and Librarian are out. I've also cut the Leviathan down to a Deredeo to save points, but given it a bubble to protect my repulsors (which do fit in the bubble, and might help if I go up against a shadowsword or something).

I'm not sure about the inceptors, particularly with the new deep strike rules. Against horde rushes I could just deploy them. I could swap them out for reivers, or something altogether different like a vindicator. Saving a few points would be a good thing, as I've had to remove some of the toys from my repulsors to make this work. Something like scout bikers would also be an option, as they could also get to places fast and grab objectives. I could probably squeeze in a unit of 6, giving me the option of combat squadding, if my drop count allowed.

Points could also be saved by dropping the aggressors. I could fit in some intercessors and maybe an ancient instead.

Battalion: + 5CPs

Primaris Captain with Power Fist (Warlord) 106

Primaris Lieutenant 74

Scout Squad 55

5 Intercessors with grenade launcher 91

5 Intercessors with grenade launcher 91

Scout Squad 55

4 Aggressors 148

Deredeo with 5++ bubble 237

3 Inceptors 135

Hellblaster Squad 165

Hellblaster Squad 165

Repulsor with auto launchers 340

Repulsor with auto launchers and 3 storm bolters 336

I'd be grateful for any C+C.

Have you playtested vs drukhari? I think they eat that list easily. They have so much multi-damage output.

question....

what does anyone think about 3 x raven guard storm talons with las cannons? expensive? yes! Survivable? I think so?....flyer and raven guard -1 to hit past 12"?

1 is kind a waste. Two is not enough models AND too expensive. But 3? 3 may be nifty.

ender502

The flyers don't get the -1. Only infantry and dreads.

@Sarkun: The list is a very good start, a good "all-comers" list.
Get a few games in to see what works for you.
Pretty darn good for 1000pts.
Check where you plan to play on what is a typical list: (500, 1000, 1500, 1850, 2000) and ask if some play power levels and what that is typically.
Having been through a few years actively, you list is not a "cheese" list so you would not get anyone upset and not get completely stomped by more competitive folk.

What I would suggest to expand on what you have, listed in order of ease of use:

Whirlwind: Is a cheap points artillery and is rather fun in this edition. Be prepared for it to be a target for reserve/deep strike.
Predator: The cannon on the turret is a bit of a beast, I like that with lascannon sponsons but HB dakka does not hurt. Some interesting options if you field 3.
Sternguard: With their special ammo they have a bit of something for everyone and would appreciate the transports you field.
Scouts: Look at their rules and see how you want to use them (snipers / missile launcher [character /vehicle sniping] OR bolters / HB [objective grabbers / disruption]), OR just plain old cheap infantry.
Librarian: It is worth looking at powers for giving a boost to your army and try them out. The models typically are pretty good looking.
Aircraft: This would be very new to you and something to try. Stormraven seems to be preferred (with the flying Land Raider Crusader configuration), I have had good use of the Stormtalon with the lascannons option (think attack helicopter gunship). Use magnets so you can play with options.

I have not even mentioned the Primaris stuff and figured that would be something to try at a later date unless you like the "true-scale" marines.

My two cents, it can be difficult to determine what esthetic or competitive leanings a player has so I try to mention a bit of both sides.

Martel732 wrote:
Have you playtested vs drukhari? I think they eat that list easily. They have so much multi-damage output.

That could be a tricky one. I'd certainly have to screen my big stuff against blaster spam. That said, if I was working on a deep strike-based DE army right now I'd stop, given the FAQ changes.

Other shooty armies are a worry in general. That's why I've got the bubble on the Deredeo. I tend to be able to out-deploy people though, thanks to having only 6 drops, so I ought to usually go first. As such, Drukhari are a bigger threat at the GT finals than at the London GT, but people will have had less time to get them ready.

If scourges come down within 12" of one of my infantry squads I ought to be able to reduce their firepower by a bit with auspex scan. They are far from cheap, or tough. To be honest I don't see them as more of an issue than plasma scions. Splinter weapons are a joke against Primaris.

A raider-based list could be worse than deep strike spam. Not as many blasters, but better protected and no delay to getting their shots off. I'd have to play well against them, and going second would be a problem.

So yeah, it could be tough. It's a bit of an unknown, as nobody I know plays them. I think I'd rather face them than a shadowsword though.

Do better:
3 strom ravens
1 shirke
3 agressor squads.

Shirke and agressors SftS, then fly with sr.
What woud survive this?

 ender502 wrote:
question....
what does anyone think about 3 x raven guard storm talons with las cannons? expensive? yes! Survivable? I think so?....flyer and raven guard -1 to hit past 12"?
1 is kind a waste. Two is not enough models AND too expensive. But 3? 3 may be nifty.
ender502

As listed earlier they do not get the -1 protection other than the usual Flyer one.
I tend to use those guys as a bit of an assassin unit to either kill off a character, light vehicle or finish off a damaged squad, the plus 1 to hit for them is helpful but is irritating when there are flying targets around.

 Talizvar wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
question....
what does anyone think about 3 x raven guard storm talons with las cannons? expensive? yes! Survivable? I think so?....flyer and raven guard -1 to hit past 12"?
1 is kind a waste. Two is not enough models AND too expensive. But 3? 3 may be nifty.
ender502

As listed earlier they do not get the -1 protection other than the usual Flyer one.
I tend to use those guys as a bit of an assassin unit to either kill off a character, light vehicle or finish off a damaged squad, the plus 1 to hit for them is helpful but is irritating when there are flying targets around.

Yeah I quite like it when people tell me their dark talons have strafing run and get +1 to hit my repulsors. Nuh uh.

Have people tried out scout bikers? These look like quite an interesting alternative to inceptors for maelstrom missions, post FAQ.

Here's a version of my list for the London GT, using some:

Battalion: + 5CPs

Primaris Captain with Power Fist (Warlord) 106

Primaris Lieutenant 74

Scout Squad 55

5 Intercessors with grenade launcher 91

7 Intercessors with grenade launcher and Sword 131

Scout Squad 55

Primaris Ancient 69

Deredeo with 5++ bubble 237

3 Scout Bikers + storm bolter for Sergeant 77

3 Scout Bikers + storm bolter for Sergeant 77

Hellblaster Squad 165

Hellblaster Squad 165

Repulsor with frag launchers 348

Repulsor with frag launchers 348

Mandragola wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Have you playtested vs drukhari? I think they eat that list easily. They have so much multi-damage output.

That could be a tricky one. I'd certainly have to screen my big stuff against blaster spam. That said, if I was working on a deep strike-based DE army right now I'd stop, given the FAQ changes.

Other shooty armies are a worry in general. That's why I've got the bubble on the Deredeo. I tend to be able to out-deploy people though, thanks to having only 6 drops, so I ought to usually go first. As such, Drukhari are a bigger threat at the GT finals than at the London GT, but people will have had less time to get them ready.

If scourges come down within 12" of one of my infantry squads I ought to be able to reduce their firepower by a bit with auspex scan. They are far from cheap, or tough. To be honest I don't see them as more of an issue than plasma scions. Splinter weapons are a joke against Primaris.

A raider-based list could be worse than deep strike spam. Not as many blasters, but better protected and no delay to getting their shots off. I'd have to play well against them, and going second would be a problem.

So yeah, it could be tough. It's a bit of an unknown, as nobody I know plays them. I think I'd rather face them than a shadowsword though.

You can't screen against disintegrators. That's what killed me. They have 36" range.

The Shadow sword is only a problem because primaris have gak anti-tank. Drukhari can be way more place way faster than a shadowsword and engage far more marines. Shadowsword is overkill.

Yeah true enough. Disintegrator spam is bad news for primaris. It’s oddly about as good vs my t8 vehicles as a dark lance, better against my infantry, and cheaper.